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Kevin Sinfield / Ian Millward's England XIII (Merged threads)

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I watched a bit of the Wales - Argentina game yesterday, and noticed what a good goalkicker Lee Halfpenny was, then I watched England - France today. Sinfield was immaculate with his place kicking. I wonder if there was to be a contest between the top League and Union kickers who'd come out on top - assuming of course that you could set the parameters for such a contest.

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I'd have my money on Sinny. You never think he'll miss, Botica was the last one like him.

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With all the penalties in union you'd expect a union kicker to come on tops.

But...... Kevin is the best kicker I've seen for a long time.

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What Millward's XIII for the world cup was? They mentioned they would be discussing it on the red button, but I had recorded the game, so didn't get to see the post match bits!

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What Millward's XIII for the world cup was? They mentioned they would be discussing it on the red button, but I had recorded the game, so didn't get to see the post match bits!

edit

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What Millward's XIII for the world cup was? They mentioned they would be discussing it on the red button, but I had recorded the game, so didn't get to see the post match bits!

Can't remember the full side but interestingly he had 6. Widdop, 7. Chase with no place for Sinfield in the 17. Noble has 6. Sinfield, 7. Chase with no place for Widdop in the 17.

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He had Briscoe instead of Charnley and Watkins and Reed in the centres - his pack, I think, was Sam B, Roby, Graham, Ellis, Hock, O'Loughlin...

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He had Briscoe instead of Charnley and Watkins and Reed in the centres - his pack, I think, was Sam B, Roby, Graham, Ellis, Hock, O'Loughlin...

He had Westwood and Ratchford on his bench as well. I thought it strange that Noble had Luke Burgess at 8 and no place for Sam Burgess!!!!

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I'd like to see Westwood play against the Aussies. He's a big rough ###### and takes no prisoners.

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Sinny has never had any success in interna...

... oh, hang on

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i have to hold my hands up, i have criticised sinfield for years an said he was not good enough to play international rugby, but as a captain he is faultless and has led england by example and i have to say that my view has changed dramatically after this years internationals. well done kevin you did ud proud...........

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Thurston is the best kicker in either code.

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Thurston is the best kicker in either code.

Don't know the % but Thurston's definitely the best to watch.

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Reminds me of the Jamie Soward vs a Rugby Union kicker from the Matty Johns Show on YouTube.

Thurston is the best kicker in either code.

I'd say Thurston and Carter are probably equally matched put Sinfield is certainly a close contender to the 2 of them.

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Thurstons 2012 percentage is 83%, Adam Reynolds had the best rate from the NRL kickers slightly higher than Thurston.

I thought Sinfields might be slightly better than that.

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He had Westwood and Ratchford on his bench as well. I thought it strange that Noble had Luke Burgess at 8 and no place for Sam Burgess!!!!

I thought I heard him say it should have been Sam, the caption was wrong.

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I was struck by the choices made concerning the respective selections from Brian Noble and Ian Millward, over which players they believed should make-up the side for the opening game of the 2013 World cup competition, on the red-button addition to the coverage of the England France game yesterday..

What resonated most deeply with me was the Australian pragmatism to selection which was supplied by Millward, where much to the anchormans surprise, he omitted from his selection present captain, Kevin Sinfield!

Millward to his credit then opined his belief that despite and I use his words; that "Sinfield,without any doubt having proven himself one of, if not the finest yet, club player in S/L history so far, has not ever risen, V the best opposition, ie Oz and NZ, to anything like his unarguable peerless club level performances or dominance". I thought that took a bit of courage, especially so considering the adulation and hero worshipping that has surrounded KS in the most recent past.

I would disagree with his assessment concerning Chase, as I believe that each and every attribute that he accredited to that player is far better expounded by Rob Burrow, who playing as an impact player/super sub, is the closest we have produced to what Craig Wing in his heyday, was for the Aussies. Rob has proven devastating in the dual role when he covers either S/Half or the Hooking position and could be Englands best asset, late in any game when facing tiring opposition forwards.

Likewise I was dissappointed with Noble's selection over the Halves in so much as he slavishly followed the popular vote with his choice of Chase and Sinfield there, the easy and to be honest more English manner of selection and one we have all come to expect, if not accept.

Again Millward was more pragmatic with his emphasis on Widdop at S/Off and explained very profoundly why. Namely that the lad has established himself in the highest calibre competition in World R/L and more importantly in a position that has been our biggest headache since the day's of Tony Myler and Gary Schofield, we have not had an out and out S/Off since then and Widdop more than adequetly supplies the answer to that problem.

Noble claimed that he did not know if Widdop could prove to have a kicking game, it is a pity I feel that maybe he has probably not watched the NRL enough on P/sports? For the lad has displayed on the few occasions that it has proved neccasary for him to adopt a kicking role for his club, that he is more than capable of doing so. Presumably Noble is assuming that Sinfield will perform this duty, but, he has been afforded the job on so many occasions against this calibre of opposition and to date I personally cannot recall a game in which his open field-kicking game has been anything above mundane against either NZ or Oz.

My own belief is alway's to field the best players available and, whenever possible in their true and favourable positions and as I see it now with some emerging talent, with a good mix of seasoned pro's on the english scene we have, after almost a half century practically achieved once again, a genuine competition for places and consequently I maintain that if injuries permit we should place the ones who constitute our strongst, fastest and most able players on the field at each and every opportunity.

My own starting thirteen and four subs would therefore be,

Hardacre

Briscoe

Watkins

Reed

Hall

Widdop

TOMKINS

Graham ©

Roby

Crabtree

Burgess S

Ellis

O'Loughlin

Hill

Burgess L

Burrow

Westwood.

Tomkins is I realise an outrageous selection at S/H, but I believe that Hardacre is as good a defender, safer under a high ball and a more than decent support player in the F/B role, consequently both players should be on the field of play. I do not care a jot over whether this gives 'Sam' the link-up opportunities he supposedly thrives upon, because his competitive spirit alone will pose a danger to any other side given that he is there on the field. He is our most potent attacking player no matter which position he occupies and methods can be utilised to use his threat as the situations arise.

Likewise with Luke Burgess who has proven he can cope comfortably within S-Hemi playing conditions and practices and if good enough for that he is certainly qualified to represent his country also.

Crabtree has yet to have a poor game against any S/Hemi side and if fully fit and well I believe should be a starting prop. Widdop as well is a very accomplished goalkicker, not I agree as good as Sinfield in that department, but still a most reliable one at that. Finally Briscoe V Charnley. I prefer the latter on attack but do wonder if h is defensively strong enough, wheras Briscoe has proved in a good deal of games his defencive qualities and hopefully, Watkins will further improve his capabilities in this department also by next November as well?

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i have to hold my hands up, i have criticised sinfield for years an said he was not good enough to play international rugby, but as a captain he is faultless and has led england by example and i have to say that my view has changed dramatically after this years internationals. well done kevin you did ud proud...........

I've said in one of the other threads before this series that Sinfield either needs to be out of the England squad or captain. He's not the best player, but as a leader, he's top

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I wonder if there was to be a contest between the top League and Union kickers who'd come out on top - assuming of course that you could set the parameters for such a contest.

Which shape ball would you use? Would they both use the same or both use their normal balls? And if they use their normal ones, do you factor in that the union balls are better shaped for kicking?

How about NFL kickers?

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Merged a few threads together that seem to be discussing the same issue.

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1 Tomkins

2 Charnley 3 Reed 4 Watkins 5 Hall

6 Sinfield© 7 Chase

8 Graham 9 Roby 10 Hill

11 S.Burgess 12 Ellis

13 O'loughlin

14 Burrows 15 L.Burgess 16 Hock 17 Westwood

Graham can do 60mins plus S.Burgess can do a stint at prop so only 1prop on bench for me.

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Noble claimed that he did not know if Widdop could prove to have a kicking game, it is a pity I feel that maybe he has probably not watched the NRL enough on P/sports?

That would surprise me. I assume he gets it free as he works on their championship coverage!

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That would surprise me. I assume he gets it free as he works on their championship coverage!

He watches most games in the NRL, he said as much in his column in Forty-20 magazine, and to be fair, Id agree with him that you cant definitively say whether Widdop has a great kicking game or not. He's looked pretty good when called upon but not regularly enough to say its a big part of his game.

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McNamara will certainly have to make some tough decisions leading up to the world cup.. we have an abundance of very good forwards, and some real competition at last in the backs.. my starting 13 would be:

1. Tomkins, 2. Briscoe, 3. Reed, 4. Watkins, 5. Hall.

6. Sinfield, 7. Burrow

8. Graham, 9. Roby, 10. S.Burgess

11. Ellis, 12. Hock

13. O'Loughlin

14. Westwood

15. Mcilorum

16. Hill

17. Widdop

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McNamara will certainly have to make some tough decisions leading up to the world cup.. we have an abundance of very good forwards, and some real competition at last in the backs.. my starting 13 would be:

1. Tomkins, 2. Briscoe, 3. Reed, 4. Watkins, 5. Hall.

6. Sinfield, 7. Burrow

8. Graham, 9. Roby, 10. S.Burgess

11. Ellis, 12. Hock

13. O'Loughlin

14. Westwood

15. Mcilorum

16. Hill

17. Widdop

Needs more Leeds players!

I can't remember off the top of my head, but who does Watkins link up with at Leeds? Is it Hall or BJB?

In preparation for this back line (it seems a good possibility) I would like to see them playing together for Leeds on a regular basis

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