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gingerjon

They fought and died for our freedom

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Obviously, the bloke shouldn't have been arrested. I hope they limit his punishment to making attend next year's Remembrance Day ceremony in his home town.

Once again it was a deeply impressive and moving ceremony in Bradford City Centre yesterday.

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Obviously, the bloke shouldn't have been arrested. I hope they limit his punishment to making attend next year's Remembrance Day ceremony in his home town.

Once again it was a deeply impressive and moving ceremony in Bradford City Centre yesterday.

forcing someone to attend a rememberence day ceremony is against the spirit of the occassion, and inappropriate IMHO. The person has a right to express dissent.

11.11 means a lot to me personally. I pause and think about the sacrifice made by those who have experienced war and its obsceniyt, especially members of my family, who experienced all kinds of horrors and lived with them for the rest of their lives. I buy a poppy, but invariably lose it after a couple of days and don't buy another since I don't feel the need to be seen wearing one.

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No point getting upset by this man burning a poppy, the symbol and occasion means so much more.

I attended the ceremony in Poulton-le-Fylde yesterday. Moving and impeccably observed.

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This, written last year, sums up my feelings on what it has become http://alt.adriansho...ng-remembrance/

I think that piece goes overboard about the different ways people choose to wear a poppy. To start with, no one should fell pressurised into donating or wearing a poppy. That is not what those men and women died for. If someone chooses to wear a tie pin as opposed to a paper poppy then what is the problem? I also like the way the symbol has become incorporated into the England RL (and RU) jerseys for this weekends international fixtures.

The Royal British Legion is another issue and I agree that it seems they have lost a certain amount of dignity in their pursuit of funds (as have many charities). I made a donation via their website a couple of years ago. Since then I have received a huge amount of mail on a monthly basis asking for more donations. I wonder how much all of that costs? I am fed up with the countless different charities advertising on television, in national publications and accosting you on the street.

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I think that piece goes overboard about the different ways people choose to wear a poppy. To start with, no one should fell pressurised into donating or wearing a poppy. That is not what those men and women died for. If someone chooses to wear a tie pin as opposed to a paper poppy then what is the problem? I also like the way the symbol has become incorporated into the England RL (and RU) jerseys for this weekends international fixtures.

The Royal British Legion is another issue and I agree that it seems they have lost a certain amount of dignity in their pursuit of funds (as have many charities). I made a donation via their website a couple of years ago. Since then I have received a huge amount of mail on a monthly basis asking for more donations. I wonder how much all of that costs? I am fed up with the countless different charities advertising on television, in national publications and accosting you on the street.

Couple of issues there.

On a personal level I find the sewing of poppies onto sports jerseys, boots etc to be ridiculous. What showed greater respect on Sunday: the Last Post and silence before the game (I got dust in my eye) or that some players wearing poppies squared up for a partial bit of biff? That said, I wouldn't stop anybody having a poppy on their shirt if they wanted to ... but are they going to allow a red ribbon for World Aids Day if a player wants it? But I do think the ubiquity of the poppy diminishes its power. Seeing it stuck on the front of the Duck Bus ( The duck bus remembers) is fetishisation, not remembrance. What it represents becomes dulled.

The Royal British Legion spends £25m on raising money every year; they raise £136.1m. If they didn't advertise or badger people they wouldn't come close to that latter figure. Such is life.

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The way I see it, is that if the most someone can do is moan about whether they wear a poppy or not, then they have a pretty easy life.

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The way I see it, is that if the most someone can do is moan about whether they wear a poppy or not, then they have a pretty easy life.

So we should make people's lives a bit tougher by arresting them?

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People fought and died so that we can set fire to poppies if we choose.

In the film The American President there's a speech which seems relevant..

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've got to want it bad because it's going to put up a fight. It's going to say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing centre stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you had spent a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as a land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one if its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that. Defend that. Celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.

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So we should make people's lives a bit tougher by arresting them?

Not at all. Buy a poppy, don't buy a poppy...see who cares.

Just shut the eff up about it.

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Seeing it stuck on the front of the Duck Bus (http://www.flickr.co...don/4105491788/) is fetishisation, not remembrance. What it represents becomes dulled.

That's pretty crass. But is it as crass as a man solemnly laying a wreath of remembrance just days after boasting of his success in selling arms to a theocratic dictatorship in the World's most sensitive and dangerous region?

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People fought and died so that we can set fire to poppies if we choose.

In theory, yes ....possibly. But it's bloody disrespectful, there are many other ways of protesting than being the equivalent of a shock jock.

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People fought and died so that we can set fire to poppies if we choose.

In the film The American President there's a speech which seems relevant..

+1

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That's pretty crass. But is it as crass as a man solemnly laying a wreath of remembrance just days after boasting of his success in selling arms to a theocratic dictatorship in the World's most sensitive and dangerous region?

Your point is well made.

As is your use of The American President. Still the greatest political speech never actually delivered.

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Interesting piece - another view from Ian McGregor, Chief Executive of PoppyScotland (as the Earl Haig Fund is now marketed as):-

http://www.poppyscot...s-to-the-poppy/

Very interesting. I haven't worn a poppy in years although I buy at least one every year. I think I prefer the Scottish groups take on things to the RBL's.

On twitter (so the caveat is right there) it's being said that it was the EDL (or people linked to the EDL) who complained to Kent Police about the poppy burning photo.

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"A man is due to be interviewed by police this morning following reports that a picture of a burning poppy, accompanied by offensive comments, had been posted on a social media website."

Maybe the man was arrested for the offensive comments and not the actual picture?

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Very interesting. I haven't worn a poppy in years although I buy at least one every year. I think I prefer the Scottish groups take on things to the RBL's.

On twitter (so the caveat is right there) it's being said that it was the EDL (or people linked to the EDL) who complained to Kent Police about the poppy burning photo.

Just because the EDL are generally offensive doesn't give them less right to make a complaint themselves.

I don't agree with prosecuting people for this kind of activity but the EDL's involvement in this (or not) is neither here nor there.

And tbh it smacks of a deflection tactic to try to win over those who automatically oppose anything supported by the far-right with reductio ad Hitlerum.

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Though the article is somehwat misleading. Burning poppies isn't illegal but deliberately provocative behaviour can be. Peverse but still the law.

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People fought and died so that we can set fire to poppies if we choose.

In the film The American President there's a speech which seems relevant..

Good speech, that, and sums up the American interpretation of freedom of speech. However, under the last government any resemblence the British version may have had to that interpretation was lost. I'd love to see Guardianistas approving of that interpretation of free speech being adopted here. I'd love to see it adopted but the resulting fireworks would be quite a display. Outrage!

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Though the article is somehwat misleading. Burning poppies isn't illegal but deliberately provocative behaviour can be. Peverse but still the law.

Agree all the way.

I buy 3 or 4 every year and also lay a wreath for an old mate (GNR EDMUND FRANK MULLER 11/01/77: IRA sniper at VCP in Old Park area of Belfast).

Eddie was the son of a German P.O.W. who stopped in this country after his release to marry Eddie's mother, Eddie was a couple of years younger than me but we knocked about in the same crowd when we where kids. R.I.P. Eddie.

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Good speech, that, and sums up the American interpretation of freedom of speech. However, under the last government any resemblence the British version may have had to that interpretation was lost. I'd love to see Guardianistas approving of that interpretation of free speech being adopted here. I'd love to see it adopted but the resulting fireworks would be quite a display. Outrage!

That is exactly the type (if there more than one kind if free speech) that Guardian readers and lefties want. It tends to be right wing publications that get outraged at the drop of a hat.

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Sev - you seem to have forgotten the BNP hysteria that there was across the country. We had debates as to whether BNP members should be banned from certain professions. It's not what I would call free speech.

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