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Viking Warrior

widnes link up with workington

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Seven out of 18 of the Lions under 18's were from Cumbria yet appear to not be in an academy. Should the link ups with West Cumbria extend to supporting an academy up there??

However is Cumbria that rich in talent????

Looking at your two posts, it would seem potentially yes the talent is there!

One snippet of news I saw yesterday about Widnes is they've given every player in the academy a squad number (as I understand it anyhow!) which I thought was a nice touch, especially with a number of them going to be heading out on loan in deals such as this.

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Wath Brow Hornets won the NCL Premier Division League Leaders title and then went on to win the Grand Final. Their stand-off was voted Player of the Year. Egremont Rangers were the First Division League Champions and their stand-off was voted that leagues Player of the Year and their coach voted Coach of the Year. The Cumbria County Amateurs team are the current County Champions and are awaiting their game with Lancashire to decide this years champions. Cumbria won the 9's title with a mainly local squad of players.

Depends what you mean by "rich in talent" but I would say that in my opinion they are when you add in all the young men playing SL, like Mossop, Lunt, Donaldson, Amor, etc, and the Championship from Cumbria.

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Wath Brow Hornets won the NCL Premier Division League Leaders title and then went on to win the Grand Final. Their stand-off was voted Player of the Year. Egremont Rangers were the First Division League Champions and their stand-off was voted that leagues Player of the Year and their coach voted Coach of the Year. The Cumbria County Amateurs team are the current County Champions and are awaiting their game with Lancashire to decide this years champions. Cumbria won the 9's title with a mainly local squad of players.

Depends what you mean by "rich in talent" but I would say that in my opinion they are when you add in all the young men playing SL, like Mossop, Lunt, Donaldson, Amor, etc, and the Championship from Cumbria.

For me a place is rich in talent if it can produce enough players to put together a Superleague team.

Wigan, Leeds and the Calder area are rich in talent.

When it comes to Cumbria I note you stopped at four SL players.

But don't get me wrong I am not having a go, my bet is that West Cumbria is not rich in talent but may well be if only they operated a Superleague team.

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Depends what you mean by "rich in talent" but I would say that in my opinion they are when you add in all the young men playing SL, like Mossop, Lunt, Donaldson, Amor, etc, and the Championship from Cumbria.

Perhaps no longer young, but a few more Cumbrians with Super League games under there belt, birthplace in brackets;

Ade Gardner (Barrow)

Ben Harrison (Barrow)

Oliver Wilkes (Ulverston)

Peter Lupton (Whitehaven) now at Workington (only an idiot would mistakenly type he'd gone to Whitehaven) but over 180 top flight games to his name

Then of course up until recently Rob Purdham cut it at the top level.

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Ewan Dowes Liam McAvoy, Last years Wigan scholarship captain Brad Lawrence is Cumbrian etc etc. The area has as much talent as anywhere what its never had is exposure to the same coaching resource as elsewhere or guys like Graham Mattinson Craig Calvert etc would have played super league but top flight clubs have always overlooked them due to financial costs of relocating lads who have only potential

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Perhaps no longer young, but a few more Cumbrians with Super League games under there belt, birthplace in brackets;

Ade Gardner (Barrow)

Ben Harrison (Barrow)

Oliver Wilkes (Ulverston)

Peter Lupton (Whitehaven) now back with Whitehaven but over 180 top flight games to his name

Then of course up until recently Rob Purdham cut it at the top level.

Lupton plays for workington you idiot

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Lupton plays for workington you idiot

Easy tiger - we can't all be as perfect as you.

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Plus the young Cumbrians were the only county team to be the South Sydney youngsters on their recent tour? 38-12

Souths beat Lancashire Juniors 28-10 and Yorkshire 24-20

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Ahahahahah, Yeah it did brilliant for you, you were ####### in the championship and nothing changes in SL. you may well be building for the future and god luck to you but lets not pretend you were world beaters becuase you know full well you were bob.

isn't it time for your medication? just another deluded featherstone fan methinks????

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Brad Singleton won't be far off Leeds first team in a season or two. Greg Richards starts prop for England under 18s who's currently at Saints. Ryan Shaw at Wire who played half a season at CC1 and got nominated for young player of the year will likely be putting on a first team shirt in years too come. The list is very long it would be interesting to see if someone could put it together. All these quality players and dozens of players playing in the championship and there isn't an SL club within an hour and 15 minutes drive. You'd be a fool to say there isn't potential for developing talent in the area, the main question is which is the most efficient way of doing so.

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Brad Singleton won't be far off Leeds first team in a season or two. Greg Richards starts prop for England under 18s who's currently at Saints. Ryan Shaw at Wire who played half a season at CC1 and got nominated for young player of the year will likely be putting on a first team shirt in years too come. The list is very long it would be interesting to see if someone could put it together. All these quality players and dozens of players playing in the championship and there isn't an SL club within an hour and 15 minutes drive. You'd be a fool to say there isn't potential for developing talent in the area, the main question is which is the most efficient way of doing so.

If Barrow were in SL would all these lads play for Barrow? Would people across the county travel to Barrow to watch Cumbrian Superleague? Could a Barrow in SL team up with Worky and Haven? Same question to all others who live up there and have a feel for these things??

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Brad Singleton won't be far off Leeds first team in a season or two. Greg Richards starts prop for England under 18s who's currently at Saints. Ryan Shaw at Wire who played half a season at CC1 and got nominated for young player of the year will likely be putting on a first team shirt in years too come. The list is very long it would be interesting to see if someone could put it together. All these quality players and dozens of players playing in the championship and there isn't an SL club within an hour and 15 minutes drive. You'd be a fool to say there isn't potential for developing talent in the area, the main question is which is the most efficient way of doing so.

It might be an hour and fifteen minutes from Barrow, barrowraiderskid but it's over 2 hours from Workington and Whitehaven but I take your point. It makes me laugh when we keep hearing how London and Wales need SL clubs to develop young players and yet we continue to churn out some very good players without a SL presence. I hope Steve O'Connor at Widnes can persuade Andrew Tinkler the head man of Stobarts to get interested in the game, after all it is a Cumbrian company!!!!

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It makes me laugh when we keep hearing how London and Wales need SL clubs to develop young players and yet we continue to churn out some very good players without a SL presence.

Developing the player pool is important and the game needs to try to do that in London and Wales, and can do that much easier with SL clubs there to underpin academies and offer careers in the area where the kids live.

The same principle applies to Cumbria. Cumbria has 100+ years of being a staunch RL area hence you can "churn out some very good players without a SL presence".

I suspect you could churn out even more WITH an SL presence to stimulate the development of the juniors up there.

I don't think anyone wants to see clubs in London and Wales but NOT in Cumbria. The question is how can this be done?

As above I think the best bet for an SL club is Barrow, so same question to you - If Barrow were in SL would all these lads play for Barrow? Would people across the county travel to Barrow to watch Cumbrian Superleague? Could a Barrow in SL team up with Worky and Haven as partners?

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I didn't suggest an SL club in Barrow but I see why you'd think I was hinting towards it as I only really spoke about Barrow born players although they're the only onea I could add to the topic. I've always said that if there was an SL club up by workington/haven I'd go to more away games than home due to a car journey to wigan and warrington is much more pleasant than up too west cumbria, hence I know that fans won't come from west to south or south to west cumbria to watch an SL club as the roads are dire.

And IMO a stronger ameteur game is more important than having an SL club in the area. Maybe an SL club in a specific area will lead to an improvement of the ameteur game and more players produced. But like you said I've never understood why you NEED an SL club produce talent as Cumbria is a great example of how you don't.

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As above I think the best bet for an SL club is Barrow, so same question to you - If Barrow were in SL would all these lads play for Barrow? Would people across the county travel to Barrow to watch Cumbrian Superleague? Could a Barrow in SL team up with Worky and Haven as partners?

Why would Barrow be the best bet? People need to understand the geography of the area. The main RL area is in the Whitehaven and Workington areas which are 60 miles from Barrow on probably the worst road in England. If you've never travelled it you wouldn't understand what people here say. It takes upwards of 2 hours depending on how many lorries and tractors are on the road!!!!!

IF a SL club/team was in Barrow there would not be many people travelling from west Cumbria and likewise, as barrowraiderskid has said if there was one in west Cumbria he and others would probably see them play away from home more than at home. Barrow did merge with Carlisle to become the Barrow Border Raiders and that was the end of Carlisle. The strongest RL area is the west with many very good amateur teams and a new RL academy at the Lakes College between Workington and Whitehaven. All the main industry, Sellafield, British Energy Coast, etc, is situated in the west with plans for new underground waste depository and a new nuclear reactor. So, as we keep saying west is best.

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Las behind me going to whitehaven in the NRC was sick all the way up there, didn't help the journey. Even half the journey up to millom is awful, I get the train when I can. But basically the point is a Cumbria SL club couldn't be a representative of the whole county. Unless we had a base in let's say penrith where the academy and training was ect and then the games rotated between the three grounds having 5 in Barrow and 8 in Workington/Haven having 4 at the rec and derwent park obviously. The games would be played as double headers with the CC clubs. This is the only way a representative of the whole of Cumbria could happen, if it would work however is another question.

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I can't see how it would work if Cumbria ever lost its SL slot.

They would then be in the same league as their "feeder clubs".

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I would love to see a SL club in Cumbria. I have long supported an enlarged SL. However, it will never happen. All the evidence and hints from various sources point towards a reduction to 12 teams for SL plus the admission of Toulouse. Some of the more extreme suggestions have been for 10 SL clubs. The present SL clubs can t manage their finances and want a bigger share of the Sky pie.The SL clubs will be reduced in number not expanded.

So the chance of a SL club for Cumbria is pie in the Sky,sorry, sky.

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I didn't suggest an SL club in Barrow but I see why you'd think I was hinting towards it as I only really spoke about Barrow born players although they're the only ones I could add to the topic. I know that fans won't come from west to south or south to west cumbria to watch an SL club as the roads are dire.

And IMO a stronger ameteur game is more important than having an SL club in the area. Maybe an SL club in a specific area will lead to an improvement of the ameteur game and more players produced. But like you said I've never understood why you NEED an SL club produce talent as Cumbria is a great example of how you don't.

It depends on what you mean "To produce talent".

Wigan and Leeds produce so much top class talent they can field home born/home grown first XV11's.

York and Doncaster "produce talent" that is top class too. Peter Fox and Ian Kirke.

In Leeds the kids are attracted to the game partly because of the Rhinos success, the kids go to games in great numbers, the club organises events for kids and sends it's players into the schools to promote the game and the local media are always harping on about them, on matchdays kids teams are invited to play at half time and they love that, etc etc etc.

So having an SL club around is a teensy weensy bit of a help to boosting the participation. Several new junior clubs have opened on the back of Leeds Superleague success. Top class kids only have a bus ride to further their careers etc.

So if Cumbria is "rich in talent" having an SL club around would boost that significantly.

Barrow is the biggest of the Cumbria clubs, best positioned fans wise to be an SL club (although a long way off it sadly) but if that awful road means Barrow may as well be Wigan to the kids of southern cumbria, then there we go.

Sadly SL is a vehicle only for attracting fans(i.e. money) and erm money, but the RFL have intervened a bit in this to push for SL to be used to widen the player base (done to death on other threads) if West cumbria is an area where RL is king, then an SL club could underpin that generate further interest and produce a teamful? Of Cumbria professionals??

The example I'm thinking of is Salford and castleford. One club can't produce top class juniors to save it's life yet it has access to 2M people just about. The other - a town of 40K can churn them out so to speak.

So population doesn't actually count, it's about how steeped an area is in the game and how vibrant RL is in that area. An SL club in west cumbria may not be a financial success (but few are at the moment), but if the policy ever changes and player development is given a higher priority then I'd certainly like to see one there.

The sad thing down here is if a kid looks like making it in Dewsbury there's five Superleague scouts crowding the kid!

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Why would Barrow be the best bet? IF a SL club/team was in Barrow there would not be many people travelling from west Cumbria and likewise, as barrowraiderskid has said if there was one in west Cumbria he and others would probably see them play away from home more than at home.

I was thinking along the lines of which club would need the least subsidy to survive Superleague if they were chosed to play in SL to underpin player development. to attract more cumbria kids to play and be a focal point for that.

Barrow seemed to be the club who could get the biggest crowds (or maybe not) and therefore survive on the lowest subsidy, but that would be pointless if top quality west cumbria kids would simply sign for Wigan as it's just as easy to get there! and on the other hand top Barrow kids may as well go to Lancashire. I was thinking about if the fans won't take that journey will the top young players though?

Seemingly it's a no?

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