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Dave T

RLWC 2013 - Success?

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My point to EH is that just because last time we got 45k doesnt mean we will suddenly get more this time. We got 66k the time before and 73k before that so his point was flawed.

My prediction was that 45k should be easily achievable as a base figure and then additional factors like england playing well, effective marketing and interest from new and lapsed fans should help this game achieve 60k plus.

One thing we shouldnt underestimate is the lazy and negative attitude towards international RL from rl fans. No crowd should be taken for granted, and i genuinely believe that every number will need to be worked for.

I am very optimistic and have bought some tickets, but this weekend I am in Warrington visiting family, and despite many of them being season ticket holders most of them are 'meh' about the WC and will just decide at the time. I was hoping to buy them tickets for Christmas!

We have had a great start, but the reality is that the 50k tickets sold so far could easily have gone to the staunch international rl fans - and we know that there arent enough of us around to fill every ground.

Spot on. The easy sales have been got by now. The task over the next few months is to sell tickets to non-rugby league fans, build momentum and profile, and then hope that season ticket holders want to jump on the bandwagon late next year for the remaining tickets. The way they are selling tickets is good too, by not putting certain blocks, or stands on sale, to ensure that people are together to create a good atmosphere.

The organisers seem to realise this. The Trophy Tour is an excellent idea and provides an opportunity for a focus in a different place every few days as momentum builds. RLWC2013 aren't banking on normal club rugby league fans to be the bedrock of a successful tournament, which is good, because at the moment not enough of them support the international game.

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So do we have ANY updates anywhere on total ticket sales so far, beyond the 50,000 supposedly sold on Day 1 ?

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You don't want much then!! :D

I think Australia and New Zealand are joint hosting the 2017 RLWC. I am sure i read that somewhere.

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My point to EH is that just because last time we got 45k doesnt mean we will suddenly get more this time. We got 66k the time before and 73k before that so his point was flawed.

My prediction was that 45k should be easily achievable as a base figure and then additional factors like england playing well, effective marketing and interest from new and lapsed fans should help this game achieve 60k plus.

One thing we shouldnt underestimate is the lazy and negative attitude towards international RL from rl fans. No crowd should be taken for granted, and i genuinely believe that every number will need to be worked for.

I am very optimistic and have bought some tickets, but this weekend I am in Warrington visiting family, and despite many of them being season ticket holders most of them are 'meh' about the WC and will just decide at the time. I was hoping to buy them tickets for Christmas!

We have had a great start, but the reality is that the 50k tickets sold so far could easily have gone to the staunch international rl fans - and we know that there arent enough of us around to fill every ground.

Yes very good points. Just to point out though that the two higher attendances for the previous World Cup finals were both for games where England were one of the finalists against Australia, traditionally the biggest international draw whereas the 45000 was for an Aus v NZ final in this country which was pretty good considering. The Aus V NZ semi final at Huddersfield in the 1995 tournamant for instance only got a 20,000 attendance.

Obviously I don't know your family but if I bought mine tickets, which would mean they went for free, I just know they would find religion.

Some of the minor fixtures are very intriguing. The USA v Cook Islands for example. This is in Bristol, an area just starting to buzz with promise for RL. The people love Rugby usually of the RU variety but by the time of the WL, Gloucester old golds will have just concluded their inaugral season which might pique interest. Then there is Bristol Sonics and the Somerset/Devon/Cornwall clubs who might take a look. I was watching video of the USARL grand final recently and they filled, albeit a very small, stadium to capacity in Boston and quite a few Americans might fancy a trip especially as the airfares are lower in November. The Cook Islands are from a remote, exotic country and like all pacific islanders like to play attractive rugby, so that also could be marketed locally by the host city as an attraction. All in all I could see an attendance of over 5,000 for this which would be great.

Another fascinating game is the Fiji game at Rochdale. Who knew there was a decent sized Fijian disapora in Rochdale dating back to the Joe Levula era of Fijian players at the Hornets. Not me certainly but that is an opportunity to market the heck out of that fixture in and around Rochdale and the fact that Fiji were semi finalists in 2008 is another crowd puller. I think that game could sell out.

I think the host city franchising idea was a stroke of genius by the RFL whereby the chosen cities were really committed to the idea of a RLWC game and will market the heck out of it locally leaving National marketing to the RLWC organisation.

I may be a cock eyed optomist but I think this tournament has the makings of a resounding success for out game and I refsue to be negative about it.

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I may be a cock eyed optomist but I think this tournament has the makings of a resounding success for out game and I refsue to be negative about it.

This. If we only get 45k for the World Cup final then I'll probably give up on the sport.

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This. If we only get 45k for the World Cup final then I'll probably give up on the sport.

Well I,e got my two so that's only 44,998 to beat that target.

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In terms of attendances I would say anything over 90% of capacity for the whole tournament would be a success. Sell outs for the semis and final should be a given along with the England games.

Other than that I would like to see:

- All matches available on terrestrial TV.

- Good coverage in the media - to be continued after the tournament.

- Any profits be used wisely by the RLIF to increase international rugby leagues profile along with the number of international fixtures.

Out of interest, has the Beeb got the broadcasting rights for next years Rugby Union Autumn internationals which will clash with our World Cup? If so, would they give us top billing?

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We also need to ensure scumbags like Martyn Samuel have nothing to do with writing about it too. The fat f***

Like him or not (and I happen to be a big fan of his writing) he's exactly the sort of person we want to have writing about the event. One of the most widely read (and most wide) journalists out there - if he writes some positive stuff about RLWC 2013 it can only help.

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In terms of attendances I would say anything over 90% of capacity for the whole tournament would be a success. Sell outs for the semis and final should be a given along with the England games.

Other than that I would like to see:

- All matches available on terrestrial TV.

- Good coverage in the media - to be continued after the tournament.

- Any profits be used wisely by the RLIF to increase international rugby leagues profile along with the number of international fixtures.

Out of interest, has the Beeb got the broadcasting rights for next years Rugby Union Autumn internationals which will clash with our World Cup? If so, would they give us top billing?

Autumn Internationals are on SKY until at least 2013

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Autumn Internationals are on SKY until at least 2013

England's ones. BBC show Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

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Autumn Internationals are on SKY until at least 2013

I know SKY have the England games but its been wall to wall RU for the last 2 weekends on the BBC! Will it be the same next year?

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Another fascinating game is the Fiji game at Rochdale. Who knew there was a decent sized Fijian disapora in Rochdale dating back to the Joe Levula era of Fijian players at the Hornets. Not me certainly but that is an opportunity to market the heck out of that fixture in and around Rochdale and the fact that Fiji were semi finalists in 2008 is another crowd puller. I think that game could sell out.

Have you seen any figures about how big the diaspora is?

I lived and worked in the Rochdale area for over thirty years, and the only time I saw a Fijian face was at Hornets v Leigh when they both were riding high in the old second division. If there is a sizeable Fijian community then it keeps itself fairly well hidden.

That said, the Fijian-Hornets link does provide a decent 'hook' on which to market the game. The only obstacle to a sell-out is that there isn't a great recent history of Rochdale people attending sporting events in the town in any great numbers.

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Like him or not (and I happen to be a big fan of his writing) he's exactly the sort of person we want to have writing about the event. One of the most widely read (and most wide) journalists out there - if he writes some positive stuff about RLWC 2013 it can only help.

He's a cretin who has trashed RL in the past and sees RL as a sub-sport. Let him stick to whatever it is he writes about, there are other writers to do it. He won't even acknowledge the RLWC anyway.

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I may be a cock eyed optomist but I think this tournament has the makings of a resounding success for out game and I refsue to be negative about it.

I think we are pretty much in the same place on this tournament to be honest. I'm an absolute optimist and think it will be a brilliant tournament, but I'm not into taking a Field of Dreams approach - people won't just turn up without an awful lot of hard work, we need to remember that.

In terms of the higher crowds at WC finals being games that involved England, well that was sort of my point. This game should be in massive demand no matter who gets there, yet this isn't guaranteed.

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In terms of attendances I would say anything over 90% of capacity for the whole tournament would be a success. Sell outs for the semis and final should be a given along with the England games.

Not sure about the sell-outs. The record for an international in this country is 73,631, which was for the 1992 World Cup final at Wembley. Not sure we should just assume we'll beat that on three occasions for 2013 world cup.

I think I read somewhere that the RLWC2013 team were aiming for a 70% fill of stadia. 90% would be great, but the 70% and 500,000 speccies they are aiming for seems more sensible.

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England's ones. BBC show Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

I was talking about the important ones :D

You are of course entirely correct, the BBC will have Wales, Scotland and Ireland's autumn internationals and will doubtless be presenting them in a high profile manner.

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Not sure about the sell-outs. The record for an international in this country is 73,631, which was for the 1992 World Cup final at Wembley. Not sure we should just assume we'll beat that on three occasions for 2013 world cup.

I think I read somewhere that the RLWC2013 team were aiming for a 70% fill of stadia. 90% would be great, but the 70% and 500,000 speccies they are aiming for seems more sensible.

Agree with your first line. For people to have the attitude that big crowds are a given is very dangerous IMHO. They won't just happen.

The 500k would need 90%.

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I don't think that is a priority at all. RLWC 2013 should be about attracting a new audience to watch international rugby league. We can't build international league up to a good level on the back of existing season ticket holders. We need to expand the audience, not keep going to the same people more often. One of the things Richard Lewis identified early on was the huge potential to grow the international game - think how many people go and watch an international union match, but have never been to a club game, or those who went to the Olympics to watch a sport they had never seen live before and are unlikely to ever see again.

Once we turn the international game into an event, then existing rugby league fans (who already enjoy the game) will jump on the bandwagon and make it even bigger. We need to be able to get to the situation where we know we can half-fill big stadia for our big events with people who want to watch big league "events", the other half we can sell to existing league fans, not only selling out the stadia, but also creating a demand for the tickets, so we get sell-outs for our big events some time before the day of the match.

I don't agree with what you are saying. I think you've got it the wrong way round.

We already know one thing about those Season Ticket holders: they are already fans of Rugby League - so much so that they are already prepared to pay money to watch the sport.

I agree that we need to expand into a different audience, but it will take a long time to get a whole new audience the same size as our Season Ticket holder. As I mentioned ther could be 70,000 Rugby League Season Ticket holders in this country - where do you entail that we pluck an extra 70,000 non-rugby league fans from then hey?? That would be one hell of a marketing task.

Thrust a poster of Scotland v Samoa or whatever infront of a Rugby League season ticket holder and the chances of them biting are MUCH greater than they are if you thrusted it in front of my next door neighbour (or 90% of the town for that matter) because many won't know the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union and many would rarely go to ANY sporting event anyway including football.

Your two examples are not the same as the Rugby League World Cup - firstly the Olympics is an incredibly special event which people will see anyway because of the magnitude of it. And as for International Rugby Union matches there are many more people that actually know of rugby union and how it is played. "Fancy going to Twickenham to watch England" is a question that for most in the country requires a simple yes or no answer, whilst "Fancy watching England in the RL World Cup" I suspect raises many more questions before the Yes/No. I'm sorry but it's true.

There are of course people who watch Super League on television but don't go to games, people who play the amateur game that don't go to games and there will always be people who will hear about it on the radio or in a newspaper and decide to go. For that reason of course we should be targeting people who don't regularly go to RL and newbies.

But for this tournament to be successful we need to mobilise the 70,000-90,000 people who are already massive Rugby League fans, and who already travel and pay to watch the sport; then built the "newcomers" on top. Without that core support I don't think the rest will hold up.

It will be interesting when the tournament is over what percentage of fans are A) Season ticket holders, or B ) People who have been to a Rugby League matche before. I imagine even with the RFL's excellent marketing machine the figure for the former will still be at least 40% and for the latter 70%.

Hence why Season Ticket holders must be targeted first, foremost, and as early as possible.

We are aiming for 500,000 tickets aren't we. Like I said if every Season Ticket holder bought just three tickets then that's 210,000 tickets gone already. If they went to four matches then that's 280,000 gone already. There is no way you can make up figures like that purely on new fans.

Targeting order:

1. Rugby League international fans (people that already go to Internationals)

2. Rugby League season ticket holders (domestic)

3. Rugby League fans who go to the occasional game

4. Rugby League players and their friends/family (all structures)

5. People that watch Super League on TV (get them out to their first game!)

6. Rugby League youth players (who play in schools and youth clubs) and their parents

7. General sports fans (ticket holders and fans of Football teams, Rugby Union teams, Cricket etc etc)

8. The general public who are non-sport fans.

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Agree with Shotgun that it is important that those promoting the RLWC need to target the 'low hanging fruit' first off and try and convert as many of them as sales before aggressively targeting the likes of general sports fans, or Rugby League fans who rarely attend matches.

Not only are these groups of fans usually easier and cheaper to convert, the fact is for events, people bring people and by getting some early decent sales, it will only encourage more people to buy. Think about it, a general sports fan be more likely to turn up to say the Wembley double headers once 40K+ tickets have been sold because straight away there is an 'event' feel to the day versus if they are targeted early on and realise they can pick a seat anywhere in the ground.

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Talking of RLWC success.....

Should England be gloriously successful and beat Australia at Old Trafford, has anyone thought about the route for the obligatory open top bus victory tour?

Will it start at the western end of the M62, take a detour up the M6 and then pull into Hull a couple of days later? Or will it start at Red Hall, go to Hull and then westwards back towards the scene of the glorious victory?

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Talking of RLWC success.....

Should England be gloriously successful and beat Australia at Old Trafford, has anyone thought about the route for the obligatory open top bus victory tour?

Will it start at the western end of the M62, take a detour up the M6 and then pull into Hull a couple of days later? Or will it start at Red Hall, go to Hull and then westwards back towards the scene of the glorious victory?

Getting a bit ahead of yourself there but if such a thing did happen the bus should definitely drive past Stephen Jones' house at 2.00am blowing it's horn loudly.

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Getting a bit ahead of yourself there but if such a thing did happen the bus should definitely park outside Stephen Jones' house at 2.00am blowing it's horn loudly.

I've corrected your typo. ;)

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Have you seen any figures about how big the diaspora is?

I lived and worked in the Rochdale area for over thirty years, and the only time I saw a Fijian face was at Hornets v Leigh when they both were riding high in the old second division. If there is a sizeable Fijian community then it keeps itself fairly well hidden.

That said, the Fijian-Hornets link does provide a decent 'hook' on which to market the game. The only obstacle to a sell-out is that there isn't a great recent history of Rochdale people attending sporting events in the town in any great numbers.

I cannot find any information on numbers but

the Liverpool Daily post on an article re the WC bid 3.12.10 talks about the sizeable Fijian and irish community in and around Rochdale.

Mike Ratu is the chairman of the Rochdale Fijian Association

An article in the Fiji Times 30.8.08 talks about the thriving community of Fijians in Rochdale and finally to dispell any doubt that they are there and in numbers the on line dating site www.loveawake.com/free in love has an advert for meeting single Fijian girls from Rochdale.

I rest my case.

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I think we are pretty much in the same place on this tournament to be honest. I'm an absolute optimist and think it will be a brilliant tournament, but I'm not into taking a Field of Dreams approach - people won't just turn up without an awful lot of hard work, we need to remember that.

In terms of the higher crowds at WC finals being games that involved England, well that was sort of my point. This game should be in massive demand no matter who gets there, yet this isn't guaranteed.

I agree and England are certainly not favourites to get to the final, hence the big marketing push to sell the game before the finalists are know, as an event to be planned for by fans now and not to be waiting until 3 weeks before the game to get a ticket because England are in the game. I think the press release on the 50,000 tickets sold on day one mentioned that there was particularly heavy demand for final tickets so that's a good sign.

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I was talking about the important ones :D

You are of course entirely correct, the BBC will have Wales, Scotland and Ireland's autumn internationals and will doubtless be presenting them in a high profile manner.

Easy now! No stirring up the indignation of the Celts. :angry:

Leave that to Inverdale. ;)

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