Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

marklaspalmas

SL & Championship link ups.

85 posts in this topic

Have I missed any off this list?

WIll there be any more before the start of next season?

What about the new boys in CH1?

Super League

1 Bradford Bulls with Dewsbury Rams

2 Castleford Tigers

3 Catalan Dragons with St. Esteve

4 Huddersfield Giants with Batley

5 Hull FC with York

6 Hull Kingston R

7 Leeds Rhinos with Hunslet

8 London Broncos with London Skolars

9 Salford City Reds with Oldham

10 St Helens with Whitehaven and Rochdale

11 Wakefield Trinity with Doncaster and Oxford

12 Warrington Wolves with Swinton Lions

13 Widnes Vikings with Workington Town

14 Wigan Warriors with Leigh Centurions? and South Wales Scorpions?

Championship

1 Barrow Raiders

2 Batley Bulldogs with Huddersfield Giants

3 Dewsbury Rams with Bradford Bulls

4 Doncaster with Wakefield

5 Featherstone Rovers

6 Halifax

7 Hunslet Hawks with Leeds Rhinos

8 Keighley Cougars

9 Leigh Centurions with Wigan Warriors ?

10 Sheffield Eagles (with Limoux)

11 Swinton Lions with Warrington Wolves

12 Whitehaven with St Helens

13 Workington Town with Widnes Vikings

14 York City Knights with Hull FC

Championship 1

1 Gateshead Thunder

2 Gloucester All Golds

3 Hemel Stags

4 London Skolars with London Broncos

5 North Wales Crusaders

6 Oldham Roughyeds with Salford City Reds

7 Oxford with Wakefield

8 Rochdale Hornets with St Helens

9 South Wales Scorpions with Wigan Warriors ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I understand it, Widnes have decided not to partner with North Wales Crusaders now and will only be linked with Town. I believe the have partnered with the Widnes St Maries amateur club instead (to be known now as St Maries Vikings) to develop their younger players and Town will be getting their first team squad fringe players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have I missed any off this list?

11 Wakefield Trinity

2 Gloucester All Golds

Wakey and Donny I think

Gloucester and Leeds....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hull KR & Gateshead? Is that an official one?

Feel sorry for Gateshead after the sharks!

Once bitten, twice shy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure that Sheffield-Limoux falls into this category.

I don't think dual registration will be permitted with a French club so it's not within the definition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any links to websites confirming HKR/Thunder and Wakey/Donny or is it just speculation.

Griff, a link up's a link up, whatever form it may take.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many SL clubs are making a profit ? or is this sponsership linkup another way of NOT running a reserve team .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many SL clubs are making a profit ? or is this sponsership linkup another way of NOT running a reserve team .

Nobody makes much of a profit, as any profit they want to use to pay off directors loans or invest in the race to be top dog.

About half the Superleague may somehow break even, the other half make some sort of losses, which sometimes are minimised by simply not spending on players hence you get the easybeats at the bottom.

All this has become a bit of a shambles probably accelerated by the move to 14 clubs

This is NOT a sponsorship link up, it is as you say a way of not running that extra team to save costs SL club wise, for the championship club they get a structured player development system that can also give them a decent team at a reduced cost.

It's cost sharing, in which both clubs save costs, but for me essentially the Championship club acts as the Superleague clubs reserve team. Works in Oz so what works in Oz is often copied.

The SL clubs without a link up may suffer, that a couple have no link up to me says they aren't confident of their SL future.

The CC clubs without a link up risk having to compete against stronger "CC clubs who are really SL reserve teams" which could quash their ambitions.

This will depend on how...

1. The fans react - will winning turn them on or being reserves turn them off

2. Whether independant clubs will get the better players.

Fascinating struggle ahead...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many SL clubs are making a profit ? or is this sponsership linkup another way of NOT running a reserve team .

It's a SL money saving exercise first and foremost, you're absolutely right. When did the SL clubs ever show the slightest concern for the plight of the Championship? If they don't get exactly what they want out of this they'll drop their subservient 'partners' like a ton of bricks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any links to websites confirming HKR/Thunder and Wakey/Donny or is it just speculation.

Griff, a link up's a link up, whatever form it may take.

I can confirm Wakey and Donny, Carl Hall told me during a phone conversation months ago before they became public knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a SL money saving exercise first and foremost, you're absolutely right. When did the SL clubs ever show the slightest concern for the plight of the Championship? If they don't get exactly what they want out of this they'll drop their subservient 'partners' like a ton of bricks.

It depends on how subservient and commercially astute the Championship club is. For example, I know of one club that has negotiated a deal where each time a player from the SL club plays for them then the SL club pays them a fee for it ! Additionally, the fee increases if the player is picked at the specific request of the SL club.

I'm not a fan of the whole concept but if its going to happen then Championship clubs should make it on their own terms like as above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody makes much of a profit, as any profit they want to use to pay off directors loans or invest in the race to be top dog.

About half the Superleague may somehow break even, the other half make some sort of losses, which sometimes are minimised by simply not spending on players hence you get the easybeats at the bottom.

All this has become a bit of a shambles probably accelerated by the move to 14 clubs

This is NOT a sponsorship link up, it is as you say a way of not running that extra team to save costs SL club wise, for the championship club they get a structured player development system that can also give them a decent team at a reduced cost.

It's cost sharing, in which both clubs save costs, but for me essentially the Championship club acts as the Superleague clubs reserve team. Works in Oz so what works in Oz is often copied.

The SL clubs without a link up may suffer, that a couple have no link up to me says they aren't confident of their SL future.

The CC clubs without a link up risk having to compete against stronger "CC clubs who are really SL reserve teams" which could quash their ambitions.

This will depend on how...

1. The fans react - will winning turn them on or being reserves turn them off

2. Whether independant clubs will get the better players.

Fascinating struggle ahead...

The biggest assets of most sports clubs are the players, will this mean the championship clubs will become worthless?

My biggest worry for championship clubs is the very short lived changes the RFL seem to make, over the last 10 years they have chopped and changed the age group they should run academies at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure that Sheffield-Limoux falls into this category.

I don't think dual registration will be permitted with a French club so it's not within the definition.

It's going ahead and it's actually Sheffield acting as the parent club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When did the SL clubs ever show the slightest concern for the plight of the Championship?

Why would they? the local championship clubs take fans, sponsors, players, etc that could be theirs.

You don't think Leeds are going to resurrect Bramley and free Hunslet from subservience do you?

Do you show the slightest concern for your business rival down the road when he goes under.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest worry for championship clubs is the very short lived changes the RFL seem to make, over the last 10 years they have chopped and changed the age group they should run academies at.

These changes have to me some very far reaching consequences, and are financially significant so I do not see the RFL messing things around. The clear aim is for SL to save money, the unclear aim may be for SL (whatever form it will take 2015) to secure itself as a cost effective Elite division to deliver the SKY contract, the conspiracy theory is for SL to wipe out the annoying local CC clubs and in time grow off the back of their possible demise.

Time to argue if independent CC clubs go all the local fans and players will turn to soccer :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These changes have to me some very far reaching consequences, and are financially significant so I do not see the RFL messing things around. The clear aim is for SL to save money, the unclear aim may be for SL (whatever form it will take 2015) to secure itself as a cost effective Elite division to deliver the SKY contract, the conspiracy theory is for SL to wipe out the annoying local CC clubs and in time grow off the back of their possible demise.

Time to argue if independent CC clubs go all the local fans and players will turn to soccer :lol:

I'm with you on this and another big worry is the amateur game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would they? the local championship clubs take fans, sponsors, players, etc that could be theirs.

Since when Parky? Are you telling me that the the people who support Fev could one day have an affinity to Cas? Which Rovers players would Wakey take from us? Sponsors have a choice and will support the club which looks after them and their clients the best. They're never going to make money from their association with RL clubs. sL clubs should be better equipped to make the match day experience far more attractive to potential sponsors but some apparently fail miserably.

Look at the attendances in the Championship. Of all of those fans decided to defect to the SL it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think all the clubs actions are made to satisfy their needs at this time, it does not however indicate a resigned attitude to saving SL by capping ambitions for Championship clubs. That argument has no basis. You can't on one hand justify spending money upgrading stadiums and carrying out community work to then chuck all that in the bin in because the aim is to make SL successful. All this work is aimed at making the individual club successful regardless of which level they are at.

In my opinion these tie up's are not the creeping fog of domination by a chosen elite, it is a system designed to buy time to work out what the hell the sport does with developing talent. That is the issue that nobody seems to be discussing on the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's going ahead and it's actually Sheffield acting as the parent club.

It's not a Superleague-Championship link up.

Which is the thread title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a SL money saving exercise first and foremost, you're absolutely right. When did the SL clubs ever show the slightest concern for the plight of the Championship? If they don't get exactly what they want out of this they'll drop their subservient 'partners' like a ton of bricks.

Leeds Rhinos spring to mind, joint lottery with and sponsorship of featherstone rovers.

it's so unfair.

before SL when did 1st division clubs show the slightest concern for the plight of second divisiojn clubs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Parky? Are you telling me that the the people who support Fev could one day have an affinity to Cas?

2. Which Rovers players would Wakey take from us?

3. Sponsors have a choice and will support the club which looks after them and their clients the best. SL clubs should be better equipped to make the match day experience far more attractive to potential sponsors but some apparently fail miserably.

4. Look at the attendances in the Championship. If all of those fans decided to defect to the SL it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

1. Not at all, not one little bit, it would suit your argument Terry if I did think that.

I've lived through going on 50 years of rugby league and south Leeds people would not go near headingley at one time - they hated the place. Nowadays all roads from south Leeds lead to headingley. As you may know the road leading up to SLS is a dead end.

You know as well as me fans often come from far and wide and old fans leave the game and new ones come in every week.

What I'm telling you is a big SL club in the calder area will attract fans over time from all over that region and beyond in a steady process that will help growth - see 4.

2. None, but a top SL club in your area would see players all wanting to go there, happens in Leeds, good old Bramley and hunslet lads can't get to Leeds fast enough.

3. sponsors have a choice of going to three clubs now none of whom are that entertaining. One big slick club in the area and sponsors will go there. IIRC at our near demise we only had one sponsor interested. One :(

4. Nonsense Terry we have clubs on 7,000 crowds making losses and clubs on 9000 crowds doing well.

Do you really believe that every customer they can get is not important?

Glover will be aiming for newmarket to attarct evey soul it can from every WF postcode and beyond, he'll look for every decent kid to go streight to his academy and he'll offer ever sponsor possible a table at the ground. If that means the demise of local "rivals" it will also mean the aggrandisment of his club.

Same in Hull - pearsons aggresive chasing of Rovers best players will be aimed at taking all Rovers have if he could. people like Pearson and Glover are there to succeed for their clubs alone.

Hetherington has just about mopped up in Leeds, It's taken about 17 years to do so but it illustrates the process that is happening since the clubs decided to go it alone and compete to the death.

OK maybe RL does not need to lose a whole tier of clubs. maybe that tier is being preserved via the tie ups. If a club is not part of the tie up system then there is a real danger of them ending up isolated or even defunct in another 17 years.

I'm sure Leeds will want Hunslet to be top of the Championship and not Leigh or Halifax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion these tie up's are not the creeping fog of domination by a chosen elite, it is a system designed to buy time to work out what the hell the sport does with developing talent. That is the issue that nobody seems to be discussing on the thread.

Your entitled to your opinion, but just how you can say that when Barry Eaton himslef confirms Leeds total domination of Hunslet in their arrangement, and when Powell and Aston ring the alarm bells in terms of their future ability to not be dominated by feeder clubs.

Your idea that the CC clubs are owed something for ther recent efforts "You can't on one hand justify spending money upgrading stadiums and carrying out community work to then chuck all that in the bin" doesn't seem to make any sense to me with respect.

I do not recall either RFL or SL going to the CC clubs and suggesting that they may like to make improvements in readiness for possible SL entry and if they do they will be rewarded???

It was the CC clubs who went after the RFL asking what they had to do to qualify for the opportunity of a place in Superleague.

That these clubs may spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on stands and academies is their choice. It does not in any way signal they are being lined up for Superleague by RFL/SLE. It signals to me a last throw of the dice.

You may have noticed the recent waving through of the Toulouse application as being rubber stamped by the top four clubs, you may also have heard chairmen talking about only 12 clubs in SL next time. You may have noticed new grounds in Leigh and Halifax aren't exciting anyone at Red Hall. You may have noticed on SL rejection the Halifax academy went.

I'm afraid the bottom line is that there is a very real possibility that some clubs may have worked very very hard and spent loads of money looking towards Superleague, for that to go to waste. In our game the waste of money by clubs is not a fraction as important than keeping the SKY money going.

As for discussing developing talent and how to sort it that discussion is pretty much negated by the fact the clubs seem to have decided. Superleague will tie up with selected Championship clubs in both CC divisions for a co-ordinated appraoch. It's a "fete accompli".

Time to move on and discuss where CC clubs with NO tie up may go and how, and also work out why skint SL underspenders in various states of crisis like HKR, Salford and Cas oddly have no tie ups nor a hint of any??

I think that chairmen know the writing on the wall here, after all it's being discussed in the here and now at top level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your entitled to your opinion, but just how you can say that when Barry Eaton himslef confirms Leeds total domination of Hunslet in their arrangement, and when Powell and Aston ring the alarm bells in terms of their future ability to not be dominated by feeder clubs.

Your idea that the CC clubs are owed something for ther recent efforts "You can't on one hand justify spending money upgrading stadiums and carrying out community work to then chuck all that in the bin" doesn't seem to make any sense to me with respect.

I do not recall either RFL or SL going to the CC clubs and suggesting that they may like to make improvements in readiness for possible SL entry and if they do they will be rewarded???

It was the CC clubs who went after the RFL asking what they had to do to qualify for the opportunity of a place in Superleague.

That these clubs may spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on stands and academies is their choice. It does not in any way signal they are being lined up for Superleague by RFL/SLE. It signals to me a last throw of the dice.

You may have noticed the recent waving through of the Toulouse application as being rubber stamped by the top four clubs, you may also have heard chairmen talking about only 12 clubs in SL next time. You may have noticed new grounds in Leigh and Halifax aren't exciting anyone at Red Hall. You may have noticed on SL rejection the Halifax academy went.

I'm afraid the bottom line is that there is a very real possibility that some clubs may have worked very very hard and spent loads of money looking towards Superleague, for that to go to waste. In our game the waste of money by clubs is not a fraction as important than keeping the SKY money going.

As for discussing developing talent and how to sort it that discussion is pretty much negated by the fact the clubs seem to have decided. Superleague will tie up with selected Championship clubs in both CC divisions for a co-ordinated appraoch. It's a "fete accompli".

Time to move on and discuss where CC clubs with NO tie up may go and how, and also work out why skint SL underspenders in various states of crisis like HKR, Salford and Cas oddly have no tie ups nor a hint of any??

I think that chairmen know the writing on the wall here, after all it's being discussed in the here and now at top level.

I don't get the Domesday scenario you paint. This is about player development not club development. They may not be mutually exclusive but they are different subjects.

The way I see it the quality of any development system is affected by it's weakest players. An academy league is clearly prone to the widest variation, whereas a pyramid for player development can counter it.

One other point is that I didn't say clubs deserved SL or refer to clubs developing to just get into SL, rather I was referring to clubs developing there resources for there own ends. That may be SL for some, for others they have different motives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - June 2017

League Express - Mon 17th July 2017