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manchester rugby club 1960 - not a merger thread

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Reading the Salford web site I came across the interesting fact that Salford and Swinton fans demonstrated against a Manchester rugby league side being set up in 1960/1. There doesn't seem to be the suggestion that this was a merged side and yet why else would they have been so vehemently against it?

Another oddity Salford Reds were a baseball side in the 1950s. Nothing unusual there as a few clubs shared grounds with baseball clubs back then but this was AFAIK by Salford and had Salford players playing in it. Odd that the Salford Reds name came from baseball! These Americanisms taking over our sport!

Does anyone know anything more about either venture?

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Reading the Salford web site I came across the interesting fact that Salford and Swinton fans demonstrated against a Manchester rugby league side being set up in 1960/1. There doesn't seem to be the suggestion that this was a merged side and yet why else would they have been so vehemently against it?

Another oddity Salford Reds were a baseball side in the 1950s. Nothing unusual there as a few clubs shared grounds with baseball clubs back then but this was AFAIK by Salford and had Salford players playing in it. Odd that the Salford Reds name came from baseball! These Americanisms taking over our sport!

Does anyone know anything more about either venture?

Salford were the original "RED DEVILS"A name which Man united borrowed ,adopted,stole ,whatever.So I assume the baseball club incorperatet into there club name ,a thing that RL clubs didnt do at that time.Now our sport has started to market nick names like they do over there

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Salford were the original "RED DEVILS"A name which Man united borrowed ,adopted,stole ,whatever.So I assume the baseball club incorperatet into there club name ,a thing that RL clubs didnt do at that time.Now our sport has started to market nick names like they do over there

Unfortunately.

Most are frankly cringeworthy.

Back on topic - wasnt the Manchester team a combined Salford/Swinton rep team?

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There was a Salford / Swinton "Manchester XIII" side that played New Zealand. Perhaps they were protesting at that rather than a new club.

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There was a Salford / Swinton "Manchester XIII" side that played New Zealand. Perhaps they were protesting at that rather than a new club.

Widnes/Liverpool Xiii

Cas/Fev X111

Oldham/Rochdale x111

Fartown/Fax X111

Hull/HKRX111

Bramley/Leeds/hunsletX111

Last one has become permanent now :D

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Don't recall any protests at the time. ...but it was 52 years ago.There used to be a baseball ground on Bolton Road opposite Pendlebury market. In the early 60s used to watch Stretford Saints baseball in Longford Park.

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Salford were the original "RED DEVILS"A name which Man united borrowed ,adopted,stole ,whatever.So I assume the baseball club incorperatet into there club name ,a thing that RL clubs didnt do at that time.Now our sport has started to market nick names like they do over there

The Belgian national football team were (and are) the original Red Devils / Diables rouges.

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Unfortunately.

Most are frankly cringeworthy.

Back on topic - wasnt the Manchester team a combined Salford/Swinton rep team?

agreed: I mean Hornets FFS, what sort of a monicker is that? When did you ever see a hornet flying around Rochdale. You might get the odd bored wasp in gregg's window.

And Rovers. I don't recall a pirate ship sailing down station lane Fev even after eight pints on a saturday night in the Central Club.

makes you sick.

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It was slightly different in that those nicknames / monikers tended to come about naturally e.g. Swinton Lions after the lions pub or the need to differentiate themselves from other sides like Rochdale FC / RFC (don't know which). They weren't created with the thought of flogging T-shirts or creating mascots. City Reds has that feel even if it was adopted in 1998.

I'm not against the SL style nicknames but most of them have little thought behind them, it is just a case of looking up a synonym for "soldier" or the name of a large animal. The best ones were those that came via fan polls.

No idea how Fev ended up as Rovers but I like it.

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It was slightly different in that those nicknames / monikers tended to come about naturally e.g. Swinton Lions after the lions pub or the need to differentiate themselves from other sides like Rochdale FC / RFC (don't know which). They weren't created with the thought of flogging T-shirts or creating mascots. City Reds has that feel even if it was adopted in 1998.

I'm not against the SL style nicknames but most of them have little thought behind them, it is just a case of looking up a synonym for "soldier" or the name of a large animal. The best ones were those that came via fan polls.

No idea how Fev ended up as Rovers but I like it.

swinton weren't officially called the Lons until post SL. Many club nicknames weren't or aren't official

I can only think of one synonym for 'soldier' in Sl and that's Wigan Warriors.

almost all apart from Wigan and Hudds-not sure about the Wolves, and maybe Wakefield who still use the name Trinity alongside Wildcats, although Wolves badge has a border of barbed wire, and rhinos is arguably the most successful of the lot alongside perhaps Bulls, have names relating to the culture and history of the area.

If Featherstone and Rochdale had only just decided to call themselves Rovers and Hiornets would they be criticised for it?

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swinton weren't officially called the Lons until post SL. Many club nicknames weren't or aren't official

I can only think of one synonym for 'soldier' in Sl and that's Wigan Warriors.

I'm not just talking about SL, the names go down into BARLA and RLC as well.

Think old school we have Centurions, Crusaders, Knights, Vikings. Maybe if we had just one side called "Centurions" or "Crusaders", it would be okay but we've far too many.

edit: and Barrow were Braves before becoming Raiders.

almost all apart from Wigan and Hudds-not sure about the Wolves, and maybe Wakefield who still use the name Trinity alongside Wildcats, although Wolves badge has a border of barbed wire, and rhinos is arguably the most successful of the lot alongside perhaps Bulls, have names relating to the culture and history of the area.

If Featherstone and Rochdale had only just decided to call themselves Rovers and Hiornets would they be criticised for it?

Probably.

Hudderfield's is one of the most gratuitous. They must have spent about 5 mins flicking through the NFL handbook before picking the name of the biggest, richest club.

I quite liked the Sharks epithet, shame the fans didn't.

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'Wolves' is neither 'authentic' nor entirely manufactured. The wolf symbol started appearing on Warrington shirts in the early nineties, and was the wolf that featured in the middle of the town's coat of arms (which had previously appeared on some jerseys).

warringt.jpg

By the time of Super League, the Wolves had therefore become a natural choice, even though it had never been the team's nickname. I believe Paul Cullen, when he held a marketing role at the club, played a key role in kicking off the Wolves 'brand'.

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Back in the 60's Swinton were a power to be reckoned with and appeared in many finals and won many trophies but never the CC.

Salford were just second rate easybeats untill Brian Snape took over around 1968 and there were changes of Tsunami strength that swept Salford to the top of the tree and left Swinton as a very poor relative floundering on rocks from which they never recovered from,.

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Are you sure that's a wolf on the badge, JB? (assume you're referring to the grey on black background).

I'd have thought that was a griffin.

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Are you sure that's a wolf on the badge, JB? (assume you're referring to the grey on black background).

I'd have thought that was a griffin.

It is a wolf.

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Are you sure that's a wolf on the badge, JB? (assume you're referring to the grey on black background).

I'd have thought that was a griffin.

Yep, that's the one. I'd certainly concede to anyone with greater knowledge of these things than me, but the info I just found suggests it is a wolf and is taken from the (canting) arms of Hugh Lupus, the first Earl of Chester.

http://www.ngw.nl/int/gbr/w/warringt.htm

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Yep, that's the one. I'd certainly concede to anyone with greater knowledge of these things than me, but the info I just found suggests it is a wolf and is taken from the (canting) arms of Hugh Lupus, the first Earl of Chester.

http://www.ngw.nl/in.../w/warringt.htm

Fair enough, I'm not arguing - it looks like a 'mythical' drawing.

Maybe that's because, I would guess, that in 11c. Cheshire, the wolf was just as likely to make an appearance as a griffin.

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Yep, that's the one. I'd certainly concede to anyone with greater knowledge of these things than me, but the info I just found suggests it is a wolf and is taken from the (canting) arms of Hugh Lupus, the first Earl of Chester.

http://www.ngw.nl/in.../w/warringt.htm

Given that lupus is the Latin for wolf (as I'm sure you're aware), I would imagine you're on the right lines.

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It was slightly different in that those nicknames / monikers tended to come about naturally e.g. Swinton Lions after the lions pub or the need to differentiate themselves from other sides like Rochdale FC / RFC (don't know which). They weren't created with the thought of flogging T-shirts or creating mascots. City Reds has that feel even if it was adopted in 1998.

I'm not against the SL style nicknames but most of them have little thought behind them, it is just a case of looking up a synonym for "soldier" or the name of a large animal. The best ones were those that came via fan polls.

No idea how Fev ended up as Rovers but I like it.

Taken from the Hornets' Centenary Booklet:-

The first meeting of the Hornets' Football Club was held on 20 April 1871 at the Roebuck Hotel, when the title was fixed upon.

...

There was much discussion as to a name for the club at the 1871 meeting. Rochdale Wasps, Rochdale Butterflies, Rochdale Grasshoppers were first suggested, but "at last some enlightened individual proposed a name that took their fancy more, Rochdale Hornets, and Hornets it has been ever since."

So, as artificial a name as any of the more modern ones created by a club's board of directors; it just seems traditional because of the length of time it's been around. And, in a late 19th and early 20th century context, it will have been used in marketing.

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edit: and Barrow were Braves before becoming Raiders.

That was because Carlisle Border Raiders made a kind of sense that Barrow Border Raiders didn't.

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Given that lupus is the Latin for wolf (as I'm sure you're aware), I would imagine you're on the right lines.

Indeedy, quite a cool name.

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That was because Carlisle Border Raiders made a kind of sense that Barrow Border Raiders didn't.

No, but they dropped the "border" bit years ago.

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