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manchester rugby club 1960 - not a merger thread

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On the whole I prefer names that say something about the club or area. The new clubs joining CC1 are All Golds (great name), Stags (fantastic) and err Oxford RLFC (boring).

I seem to think that Oxford are promoting themselves as "InSpires", which works really well. It's different, has meaning locally - both to Town and Gown - and it says exactly what the club wants to do in the city and wider county - inspire.

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Weren't there a team called Wigan Zephyrs or Wigan Butterflies?

Wigan Wasps was the original Wigan name of yore.

Some to contend with are:

Brooks Temperance

Tyldsley Shamrocks

Leigh Shamrocks

Springs Branch Locos

Ince All Blacks

Wigan Islanders

Wigan Maoris

Wigan Wednesday

Runcorn White Stars

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Hull FC also merged with a side called "White Star" in their early days, I think they had something to do with shipping. Edit: IIRC White Star were a shipping company.

Temperance, SHamrocks and Wednesday, All-Blacks are pretty obvious.

Branch Locos were presumably a works side. Islanders and Maoris a curiousity.

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Hull FC also merged with a side called "White Star" in their early days, I think they had something to do with shipping. Edit: IIRC White Star were a shipping company.

Temperance, SHamrocks and Wednesday, All-Blacks are pretty obvious.

Branch Locos were presumably a works side. Islanders and Maoris a curiousity.

Springs Branch was a railway engineering yard at Spring View Ince Wigan (still is but on a much smaller scale).

The point is that teams have been attaching identifiers, obvious and not so obvious for donkeys years, it isn't a new thing. I haven't a clue where any of those WIgan teams were based but obviously they wanted to attach themselves to the Wigan name (as opposed to their district name) and then chose an identifier that they thought would single them out and impart certain qualities about the team. Just like teams do now in fact.

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I played for Ince in the late seventies, the all blacks nickname was the obvious one with an all black kit, at that time we were based at the Oddfellows Arms known locally as the Pingy, and played on William Foster playing Fields, when Ince folded most of the remaining players went to Rose Bridge who at that time were based at the Walmesley Arms, Spring View.

In the 40s my dad played for Shamrock Rovers who i think were a breakaway from Wigan St.Pats and were based at Cale Lane, New Springs i think.

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I think they evolved into the Skolars. Could be wrong, mind. I'm sure IM2 will confirm if he reads this.

Hornsey is quite a rough(ish) area of North London, sort of Harringey, and the Lambs were quite a useful team, the Skolars were NOT derived from them in any shape or form. Hector McNeil started the Skolars as a club for ex-Uni students etc to play for, they then broadened their horizons and now let anyone in. My GF's nephew now plays for one of their junior teams (And has pestered his schoolteachers enough to start a RL side at his school)

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The proposed Manchester RL side was planned for the White City Stadium - just up the road from Old Trafford if you're heading towards Manchester.

Coincidently just around the corner from where Salford started playing before they had to move to make way for the docks

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There used to be an amateur club in London called Hornsey Lambs - tough team :D

I seem to remember reading in an Open Rugby article about the club that they were called Hornsey Lams - because of sponsorship from Lam's West Malayasian Restaurant on Hornsey High Street. They may have morphed into the Lambs after the sponsorship ended.

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IIRC The Rochdale Hornets club was an amalgamation of 2 or 3 clubs thus they wanted a new name and I think they wanted to differentiate themselves from another rugby club, Rochdale Rovers / Rangers. This happened in 1871.

Rochdale RUFC were formed in 1921.

Littleborough RUFC were formed as Old Rochdalians (from the grammar school) some time in the 20th century. You didn't have to have attended the grammar school to play for them but non-old boys were not allowed become full members and could not take part in any votes.

Rochdale FC were formed in 1907.

Were there any rugby union sides in the town before 1921 (and after 1895)?

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I know that but IIRC there was another Rochdale side which necessitated them calling themselves Rochdale X. And while there was no particular reason to choose Hornets, it wasn't done for commercial reasons.

I think most of us recognise the need for commercial interests in the game but they are a necessary evil.

On the whole I prefer names that say something about the club or area. The new clubs joining CC1 are All Golds (great name), Stags (fantastic) and err Oxford RLFC (boring).

Leeds Rhinos works very well as a device for flogging shirts but it's crass.

There were over twenty clubs in and around Rochdale at the time Rochdale Hornets were formed. How times change.

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Hornsey is quite a rough(ish) area of North London, sort of Harringey, and the Lambs were quite a useful team, the Skolars were NOT derived from them in any shape or form. Hector McNeil started the Skolars as a club for ex-Uni students etc to play for, they then broadened their horizons and now let anyone in. My GF's nephew now plays for one of their junior teams (And has pestered his schoolteachers enough to start a RL side at his school)

Depends which part of Hornsey you mean. The bit near Turnpike Lane isnt that great but the other ends merges with Crouch end or Muswell Hill and is quite posh

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There were over twenty clubs in and around Rochdale at the time Rochdale Hornets were formed. How times change.

but there wasn't a single cinema, TV shop, radio broadcast of the games, there wasn't racing on TV in the pub on a Saturday afternoon, shops were functional places for the weeks supplies and Saturday working was almost compulsory for the working classes.

My how times change indeed.

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Were there any rugby union sides in the town before 1921 (and after 1895)?

Not that I know of.

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There were over twenty clubs in and around Rochdale at the time Rochdale Hornets were formed. How times change.

When I played in the 1980s there were (in no particular order :rolleyes: )

Kirkholt WMC

Mayfield

Spotland Rangers

Milnrow

Newhey

Littleborough

Heywood

Freemasons

East Ward

with Bury and Todmorden affiliated to Rochdale ARL. All of those clubs may not have existed at the same time though. Quite a lot of them turned out two teams.

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When I played in the 1980s there were (in no particular order :rolleyes: )

Kirkholt WMC

Mayfield

Spotland Rangers

Milnrow

Newhey

Littleborough

Heywood

Freemasons

East Ward

with Bury and Todmorden affiliated to Rochdale ARL. All of those clubs may not have existed at the same time though. Quite a lot of them turned out two teams.

How many exist today? How many still run junior teams?

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When I first went to work in Leeds in the late 60's I noticed some cultural differences in the naming of sports teams.

Coming from the Streethouse/Sharlston area of Fev, we called the Rugby League team "Leeds" and the soccer team "Leeds United", whereas Leeds folk called the soccer team "Leeds" and the Rugby League team "Leeds Rugby". Some of them affectionately called Hunslet "Parkside", just like Huddersfield people called the Rugby League team "Fartown".

So it seems that adding "Rhinos" to Leeds's name has been a commercial success because it has given them an undisputed identity within the city.

Hunslet and Bramley have been unlucky with their names, probably because they didn't have the word "Leeds" in them, "West Leeds" and "South Leeds", or "Leeds Huns" might have been more commercially viable in todays day and age, and I wonder if the Rhinos would have been as successful if they'd been called "Headingley"? Of course, changing the names would make no difference today, they would have had to be called that from way back

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When I first went to work in Leeds in the late 60's I noticed some cultural differences in the naming of sports teams.

Coming from the Streethouse/Sharlston area of Fev, we called the Rugby League team "Leeds" and the soccer team "Leeds United", whereas Leeds folk called the soccer team "Leeds" and the Rugby League team "Leeds Rugby". Some of them affectionately called Hunslet "Parkside", just like Huddersfield people called the Rugby League team "Fartown".

So it seems that adding "Rhinos" to Leeds's name has been a commercial success because it has given them an undisputed identity within the city.

Hunslet and Bramley have been unlucky with their names, probably because they didn't have the word "Leeds" in them, "West Leeds" and "South Leeds", or "Leeds Huns" might have been more commercially viable in todays day and age, and I wonder if the Rhinos would have been as successful if they'd been called "Headingley"? Of course, changing the names would make no difference today, they would have had to be called that from way back

Steve,

Hunslet did fine with their name and beat Leeds in the 1892 cup final (YRU) to be number one in Leeds

Leeds had been able to drop from Leeds St. Johns because the original Leeds club had taken to being called "Yorkshire" (wanderers) so the Leeds name singular was available.

But Hunslet did not need it. In time half the city supported Leeds and half Hunslet. Pretty much like Liverpool/Everton.

Leeds dominated Hunslet in the end because they attracted the money being from the "monied" northern side of the city.

Had it been the other way round Hunslet would today be Aston Villa and Leeds Birmingham City........

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How many exist today? How many still run junior teams?

Of those,

Mayfield

Littleborough

There are two new clubs in Rochdale,

Rochdale Cobras

Whitworth

Bury morphed into Prestwich but have been re-born as Bury Broncos. Not sure about Tod, they changed their affiliation to Halifax ARL.

So overall, there has been a big loss of clubs over 30 years.

What I would say has improved in Rochdale is junior RL. In the 80s, one or two die-hards kept plugging away with junior & youth teams but it was very haphazard. Mayfield now lead the way with the well organised Mustangs and are providing a number of players into Super League clubs. Also Littleborough and the Cobras seem very positive about youth RL and are working hard to expand.

Schools RL was virtually dead in the 80s but now under the auspices of the "Bolton, Bury and Rochdale RL Development Group" schools have the chance to put teams into local competitions.

Overall, there are pluses and minuses but hopefully the work with juniors will feed into clubs being able to run "A" teams and new clubs being formed.

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Steve,

Hunslet did fine with their name and beat Leeds in the 1892 cup final (YRU) to be number one in Leeds

Leeds had been able to drop from Leeds St. Johns because the original Leeds club had taken to being called "Yorkshire" (wanderers) so the Leeds name singular was available.

But Hunslet did not need it. In time half the city supported Leeds and half Hunslet. Pretty much like Liverpool/Everton.

Leeds dominated Hunslet in the end because they attracted the money being from the "monied" northern side of the city.

Had it been the other way round Hunslet would today be Aston Villa and Leeds Birmingham City........

I have always been fascinated as to how things in the city would have looked if Leeds Parish church survived to well into the 20th century?If they had it could have been to the disadvantage of Leeds city AFC

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I have always been fascinated as to how things in the city would have looked if Leeds Parish church survived to well into the 20th century?If they had it could have been to the disadvantage of Leeds city AFC

A professional soccer club was inevitable for the city, Holbecks's ground becoming available was the only reason it landed at Elland Road. It could have landed in Harehills, Kirkstall, or even Headingley, if events had been just that bit different. Parish could have stymied the growth of Leeds RL.

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A professional soccer club was inevitable for the city, Holbecks's ground becoming available was the only reason it landed at Elland Road. It could have landed in Harehills, Kirkstall, or even Headingley, if events had been just that bit different. Parish could have stymied the growth of Leeds RL.

The first Leeds soccer club was i believe Leeds City and they went bust. The second go at it was Leeds United who were garbage for years until the Don Revie era. Now they are in a lower division with more cash crises in the recent past. Despite all that record of underachievment they are still the biggest sporting club in the City. Maybe if Leeds Parish Church or even Holbeck, who didn t quit until they lost a playoff for promotion to St Helens, had gone from strength to strength then the rise of soccer in Leeds might have not been so easy and it might have struggled and failed as it has in Halifax and Bradford.

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I speak as a United fan but on what grounds could you say that soccer has suceeded in Leeds?

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The first Leeds soccer club was i believe Leeds City

Hunslet A.F.C. pre-dated Leeds City by 27 years.

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