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Red Willow

Joel Moon (merged threads)

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If a club can't afford £1.6m in player wages when they are handed around £1.4m in central funding then it suggests they shouldnt be in SL.

thats always baffled me that......

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I'll be the first to acknowledge that Salford are the main architects of their plight due to consistent mismanagement.

Can I ask you and others to consider that it is almost impossible to manage anyway when you do not have the money to do so.

Can it not be the case some clubs are also badly managed but a £Million or two handout soon papers over those cracks.

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If a club can't afford £1.6m in player wages when they are handed around £1.4m in central funding then it suggests they shouldnt be in SL.

Salford dont seem to put that much effort into anything (probably harsh) but even now they appear to be slowly declining without even keeping the fans up to speed.

I actually agree with most of ths Dave. I am a lifelong Salford fan and to be honest we have not been managed propery for years.

I feel that if we (and any other club) can't manage we should go to Champs 1 and THEN be given lots of help to rebuild. That way we get strong clubs and failure is not rewarded. Your comment is harsh, but true!

Hopefully it wont come to that. According to Manchester Evening news (yes I know!! Sorry) we have signed Martin Gleeson today. Lots more waffle too.;

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/sport/rugby_league/s/1594322_salford-snap-up-martin-gleeson-as-moon-walks

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He is almost a Test rated Australian, just behind Folau and Tonga in the pecking order.

Folau rating a 8-9 in his day

Tonga a 6

Moon a .....

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No-one's saying Leeds have done anything wrong, the point is how the transfer benefits the league as a whole. Leeds are already streets ahead of Salford and now even more so. People scoffed at my idea in the Scott Taylor to Wigan thread that his sale would lose HKR fans at the gate. Red Willow is a bona fide example of exactly this - a passionate, loyal fan now questioning his commitment to the cause (and rightly so).

Meanwhile, how many potential Rhinos fans have been a bit indecisive, not totally sold on their 18 Grand Final wins in 4 years but will now swell the gates yet further at Headingley as a result of this signing? None, that's how many.

It is a poor move for the league both in terms of credibility and overall commercial value, same as Taylor and many others we've seen this off-season.

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And how would Warrington have built to their current position without the millions pumped in via Moran's "sponsorship"

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The 1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.

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And how would Warrington have built to their current position without the millions pumped in via Moran's "sponsorship"

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The 1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.

to be fair, Warrington have grown the crowds significantly in the time Moran has been in charge........ Extra revenue to the Club!!!!

Moran bought Gleeson for 200K and then sold to Wigan for 100K

Atkins and Myler bought after the CC Final 2009 success.

Moran has put money into the club, which now returns a profit!!!!

Warrington have been saved, some may say we're lucky, others will understand the hard work and time business men and women have invested into the club.

The HJ is not only a Rugby Ground, it offers all year round facilities, this is important for all Clubs, having this ability helps with re investment and continual growth of a club.

The problem with Rugby League clubs is the business models, for me some clubs lack good business acumen.

Too many quick fixes and fingers in the air!!!

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And how would Warrington have built to their current position without the millions pumped in via Moran's "sponsorship"

How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The 1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.

We hear of the vast sums that JW has allegedly pumped into Salford, I would suggest that it is more than Moran at Warrington.

AFAIK he certainly doesn't have to pump in hundreds of thousands of pounds a year into the club to balance the books like is required at some clubs.

Either way, this isn't a Salford v Wire thread, this is a thread about Moon and the position Salford now find themselves in.

With regards to the £1.4m - I'm well aware that there are other overheads, but then that is where clubs need to improve their income streams, many are really struggling in this area. If you can;t get the money in, you can't put a SL strength team on the paddock.

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How many clubs manage a profit without significant money from directors either via "sponsorship" or loans?

The £1.4 isn't just on wages for players, there are so many other costs involved in running a club, not least getting to away games, rent of stadium, back room staff etc.

I would have added marketing but that's not been a significant cost at Salford in recent years.

Of course you have that spot on. Most successful SL clubs turn over over £4,000,000 some well over.

The SKY subsidy of £1.3M isn't just added to the £300K the club could afford for Championship wages and hey presto all SL clubs can meet the £1.6M cap and those that don't are just "badly managed", and those that fail are evidence that the licensing committee is inept.

To compete and keep players in SL you need to play the game and that is pay full cap AND afford all the ancillary expenses that outweigh wages, a principle that SL should be congratulated on not condemned for. We already know why Salford don't do this, because they didn't get the fans before the new ground and didn't get them after it either.

Unlike a couple of other clubs Salford's ace is Peel Holdings. Of course whilst all the shennanigans over the detail of the deal drag on Salford's playing roster declines, but if Peel want Salford I am sure it won't be so they can enjoy next season. The investment has to be long term, unlike Neil Hudgells investment in HKR.

Take heart also in Crusaders and Wakefield who had virtually no team weeks before the season started and they did relatively OK.

What matters most of all is Peel being on board to make up the shortfall between what Salford can afford and what they need to afford to have all the elements of an SL club in place. There are two years to go before two, probably three SL clubs will get booted out for a possible 12 club Superleague with Toulouse.

The licensing commitee will almost certainly pick the clubs who can pay full cap and afford all the ancillary expenses including marketing.

So what if Moon is one of a procession of signings now walking away from the club. There is one big game player that is poised to sign up, and for Salford and their future that is the only big game player they really need now.

I'd wait whilst the deal comes to a conclusion. If the big new player comes on board then get yer season ticket and enjoy. If the deal falls through then goodbye Superleague, however the Championship's a great competition.

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I feel that if we (and any other club) can't manage we should go to Champs 1 and THEN be given lots of help to rebuild. That way we get strong clubs and failure is not rewarded.

Sadly you cannot build in the championship. The fans aren't that interested nor are the quality players both young and established.

There's also no help provided. The SKY money given to Championship clubs is Zero.

That's why there are no strong clubs in the championship. Only the weak ones who find a millionaire.

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No-one's saying Leeds have done anything wrong, the point is how the transfer benefits the league as a whole. Leeds are already streets ahead of Salford and now even more so. People scoffed at my idea in the Scott Taylor to Wigan thread that his sale would lose HKR fans at the gate. Red Willow is a bona fide example of exactly this - a passionate, loyal fan now questioning his commitment to the cause (and rightly so).

Meanwhile, how many potential Rhinos fans have been a bit indecisive, not totally sold on their 18 Grand Final wins in 4 years but will now swell the gates yet further at Headingley as a result of this signing? None, that's how many.

It is a poor move for the league both in terms of credibility and overall commercial value, same as Taylor and many others we've seen this off-season.

That is what happens in sport, strong/rich clubs get better and better, the weak get weaker it's not about fairness for the club or league.

As a Leeds fan I want whats best for Rhinos, if it was the other way round would you be complaining...... probably not!

This thread is about a player and not getting personal towards Leeds fans just because your teams falling apart!!!

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That is what happens in sport, strong/rich clubs get better and better, the weak get weaker it's not about fairness for the club or league.

As a Leeds fan I want whats best for Rhinos, if it was the other way round would you be complaining...... probably not!

This thread is about a player and not getting personal towards Leeds fans just because your teams falling apart!!!

Yes you are right. We are probably a bit stressed out thats all! ;) If it was Salford doing the winning I wouldn't complain!

I jope JM manages to get in the team - lots more compettion for places at Leeds ...

Martin Gleeson could be interesting for us in his place .......... :lol:

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I admire what Warrington have achieved and as a business plan it is to be admired. I would say that Widnes are also reaping the rewards of a sound business. Could Warrington have managed it without the boost of Moran's input, who knows?

Wilkie has pumped money in over the last 30 years but this hasn't gone on buying big name palyers which will draw the crowds.

There has been so much wrong at Salford over the last 10 years plus. The Willows cost a fortune to maintain, crowds were low. Don't even get me started on the move to Barton,

I've watched Salford since the days of Dixon,Watkins and Fielding (with a few years missing in 80s living in Hampshire) Never have things felt so bad or bleak. At the moment I don't see Peel as being a saving light, it is all about business not the Moran view.

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I think Moon will be a first choice centre. Means our backline has an average age of 22 for next season! Hardaker, BJB, Watkins, Moon, Hall.

I do wish that any talent in the league was spread evenly, I would love 14 teams that were all equal and as competitive as each other, and hopefully one day we might get there. The only way it will get there is when all teams can spend the cap and the league is shown as very even, until then players will gravitate to those with more of a chance of trophies.

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I admire what Warrington have achieved and as a business plan it is to be admired. I would say that Widnes are also reaping the rewards of a sound business. Could Warrington have managed it without the boost of Moran's input, who knows?

Wilkie has pumped money in over the last 30 years but this hasn't gone on buying big name palyers which will draw the crowds.

There has been so much wrong at Salford over the last 10 years plus. The Willows cost a fortune to maintain, crowds were low. Don't even get me started on the move to Barton,

I've watched Salford since the days of Dixon,Watkins and Fielding (with a few years missing in 80s living in Hampshire) Never have things felt so bad or bleak. At the moment I don't see Peel as being a saving light, it is all about business not the Moran view.

I am a Swinton fan, but I used to go to the Willows as I only lived 5 streets east of there, and I remember Charlton Fielding Hesketh, Watkins, Richards Gill, Coulman, Dixon & Prescott. Thats 9 players all with GB/England/Wales international experience, the only experience the Reds have now Internationally is on holiday.

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Yes you are right. We are probably a bit stressed out thats all! ;) If it was Salford doing the winning I wouldn't complain!

I jope JM manages to get in the team - lots more compettion for places at Leeds ...

Martin Gleeson could be interesting for us in his place .......... :lol:

Absolutely!!!

I wouldn't want to see any RL team fail as a club even supporting Leeds I hoped Bradford Bulls would be rescued for the sake of Rugby League in this country and Salford is no different.

I will keep my fingers crossed for the City Reds because we need all teams to try and become as strong as possible to keep the competition there and for the game to expand, but like you say it's always stressful and annoying when your better players go elsewhere.

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Things will never be equal, there is always some reason for players to gravitate to certain clubs.

Look at Man City, they have the financial clout, won the prmiership and had a Chamions League place but still players pick other clubs.

I'd just like it if the players we rescue or develop got a chance or should that be gave Salford a chance. I would hate to think another club encouraged a player to break his contract.

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Things will never be equal, there is always some reason for players to gravitate to certain clubs.

Look at Man City, they have the financial clout, won the prmiership and had a Chamions League place but still players pick other clubs.

I'd just like it if the players we rescue or develop got a chance or should that be gave Salford a chance. I would hate to think another club encouraged a player to break his contract.

me to but does this mean you are accusing leeds of encoraging moon to break his contract ?

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I don't see Peel as being a saving light, it is all about business not the Moran view.

What do you know about their intentions towards Salford?

Are they "honourable"?

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What do you know about their intentions towards Salford?

Are they "honourable"?

All I know about Peel is whatever is in the public domain. John Whittaker has said in the past that getting involved with night clubs and sports clubs isn't good business.

The involvement of Peel in any sporting club will be because it suits their business needs, not because they are fans of Salford or RL. I'll be surprised if they are involved 5 years from now.

It isn't anything dodgy about Peel but Whittaker isn't a fool and everyone knows there is no money in sport for owners.

If they can bring some changes in attitude and a more professional set up then it's worth it for however long they choose to be involved.

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me to but does this mean you are accusing leeds of encoraging moon to break his contract ?

Moon has been quoted (on BBC Leeds) of saying Leeds approached him at the end of last season, whether that was with Salford's permission or not I have no idea.

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Moon has been quoted (on BBC Leeds) of saying Leeds approached him at the end of last season, whether that was with Salford's permission or not I have no idea.

moon is also quoted as saying in the yorkshire evening post that he phoned leeds a couple of weeks ago asking if there would be interested in him at which stage leeds contacted salford for permission to speak to moon

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All I know about Peel is whatever is in the public domain. John Whittaker has said in the past that getting involved with night clubs and sports clubs isn't good business.

The involvement of Peel in any sporting club will be because it suits their business needs, not because they are fans of Salford or RL. I'll be surprised if they are involved 5 years from now.

It isn't anything dodgy about Peel but Whittaker isn't a fool and everyone knows there is no money in sport for owners.

If they can bring some changes in attitude and a more professional set up then it's worth it for however long they choose to be involved.

If Peel are indeed taking over the club, I would view this as a defensive play on their part to protect their stadium asset.

They need to guarantee a tenant for the long haul otherwise Barton stadium risks becoming a white elephant. Given the likelihood that without fresh investment the Reds will go to the wall (and you would then have to question the affordability of such a stadium for any future Salford club) and no-one anywhere trusts Sale Sharks to honour commitments, it seems a fairly safe hedge for Peel to buy a sports team to play in a facility in which Peel has a sizable investment.

Whatever mis-givings some might have about Peel, let's be thankful that someone at Peel thinks buying into RL a better option than buying into RU. Before anyone mentions price, I don't think it simply a question of it being cheaper to buy into RL as last time I looked, Kennedy is looking to offload the Sharks for a nominal sum. Maybe they are genuinely RL fans, or maybe they just see it a more economically viable long term option given the lower salary cap and squad sizes in RL compared to the requirements for RU.

Whatever the case, right now it is better than seeing the Reds fold.

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