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saints10coach

Oldham /Salford

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The australian team was better back then than it is now IMO too.

:laugh:

Are you taking the pee mate?

A team with players like Thurston, Cronk or Slater (and until last year Lockyer) are not as good?

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The game is infinitely better. The players are bigger, faster, stronger, better conditioned and just as skilful. They are full time athletes for goodness sake.

Yeah they are but i would rather watch the old wigan than the present one. What does that say for our sport? IMO the players that play today are not as good as the past players and they are payed a lot more today too.Ever since SL as started how many players would you put in the hall of fame compared to past years? The players today could'nt lace hanley's,edwards and schofields shoes and i could name a lot more to that list too.

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Yes, teams are better organised and structured and coaches are of a higher technical ability.

Yes, defensive patterns are more structured and the same is true for the offense (much more use of decoy & dummy runners close to the game line) to counter the improved defense

Yes, the ball is in play a bit more and players are more powerful.

However,

If there are better half-backs than 2 from Edwards/Gregory & Schofield, I've yet to see them

If there are better and closer games/series than in 1990 and the Old Trafford game where Ricky Stuart scored late on and we were very close to an Ashes win, then I've been out of the country. (Also 3 tests watched by 133,700 fans, now 70,000 fans is deemed to be good)

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:lol:

Are you taking the pee mate?

A team with players like Thurston, Cronk or Slater (and until last year Lockyer) are not as good?

I personally think the mal manninger era was the best australian squad.

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The game is infinitely better. The players are bigger, faster, stronger, better conditioned and just as skilful. They are full time athletes for goodness sake.

Don't really want to get into the wider debate but on a narrow point im interested in the faster bit. My perception certainly so far as backs are concernced is the opposite. Did the players of 20 yrs ago just seem quicker to me because i was smaller then?

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In the past 20 years the Aussies haven't had anyone better in the 1, 6, 7 and 9 positions than Slater, Lockyear, Thurston and Smith.

GB/England hasn't had anyone close in the 6 and 7 positions to Gregory and Schofield. Roby is probably the equal of any 9 form the past 20 years and Tomkins equal to any 1 (bar the high ball).

However, its the difference between us and the Aussies in 1, 6, 7, and 9 as indivual players as well combined skills (the sum being greater than the individual parts) and team direction where we are also so far behind.

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Seeing as no GB player from any recent era have actually beaten the Aussies, why is one claimed to be better than the other? I'm not saying they were no good or anything like that but ATEOTD they still lost, so why are they regarded as greats?

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Yeah they are but i would rather watch the old wigan than the present one. What does that say for our sport? IMO the players that play today are not as good as the past players and they are payed a lot more today too.Ever since SL as started how many players would you put in the hall of fame compared to past years? The players today could'nt lace hanley's,edwards and schofields shoes and i could name a lot more to that list too.

With respect, that says more about you than it does the sport. You are pining for a day when the league was a rainy, muddy mess played in glorified cowsheds by part-time players with part-time fitness and part-time attitudes, completely dominated by one full-time club. The game was littered with a few genuinely talented stars I will concede that, but a golden era for the game it most certainly was not.

Long, Sculthorpe, Cunningham, R. Paul, Farrell, Briers, Morley, Senior, Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire and Jamie Peacock are all Hall of Fame material.

Tomkins, Hall and Watkins - in fact the whole squad if they win the big one next year - Have potential to become hall of famers.

EDIT - Shoddy spelling...

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Those 4 clubs already had good fanbases/latent fanbases and were clearly SL-ready, which is the reason they attracted investment to begin with. Your argument is cart before horse.

The biggest clubs remaining outside of SL are not of the same stature and/or operate in a saturated market. If SL wants to bring in P&R and just constantly shuffle its pack at the bottom end that's a sure fire recipe for indifference and stagnation for the sport. Fact is, 3 of those clubs are in any case at best "middle market" sides and anything but assured SL players. Only Catalan are anywhere near GF contention. They shouldn't be held up as examples, they're teams that SL needs to try to reinforce rather than terrify into overspending/chaos by virtue of reinstating the dreaded trap door.

You just can't be serious in that first paragraph. Hull KR were in CC1 on crowds of 1300 in a dying stadium when hudgell came in. Ready for SL, you must be delirious.

Widnes were in CC having gone bankrupt and with a poor team and low attendances when O'Connor came calling. SL ready, really.

Huddersfield were on middle 1500 crowds in CC when Davey joined the party.

Catalans did not even exist. They had still to amalgamate St Esteve and the Perpignan Catalan team to create what is now the Catalan Dragons and they had no intention of doing anything like that until they were granted a licence and given a guaranteed spot three years into the future to prepare for SL. Is that what you call ready and waiting.

So now you are dealing in latent fan bases. Fine then Halifax, Featherstone and even Leigh and Barrow have latent fan bases.How do you know they cannot convert that latency into actuality if they are given the chance at the top. Wakefield were on crowds of 1500 prior to their promotion to SL, lower than Fev and Halifax are curently. So were Hull KR and Huddersfield and London's crowds were in the hundreds before they were anointed to SL.

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With respect, that says more about you than it does the sport. You are pining for a day when the league was a rainy, muddy mess played in glorified cowsheds by part-time players with part-time fitness and part-time attitudes, completely dominated by one full-time club. The game was littered with a few genuinely talented stars I will concede that, but a golden era for the game it most certainly was not.

Long, Sculthorpe, Cunningham, R. Paul, Farrell, Briers, Morley, Senior, Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire and Jamie Peacock are all Hall of Fame material.

Tomkins, Hall and Watkins - in fact the whole squad if they win the big one next year - Have potential to become hall of famers.

EDIT - Shoddy spelling...

Gav I'm not all one sided in this debate it's just my opinion. But I will add a point to your side too the players of today are all full time players so to stand out today is a lot harder than back then when you had players at different fitness levels etc. But i personally think that if the past players were in today's game they would stand out a lot more than the present players do. But like I said that's just my opinion. But I do think P and R needs to come back to help our game move forward. I will admit their needs to be a very good way of reintroducing it though. Which I think the 2 tier SL option would be the best way as long as their isn't too much difference in salary caps so we won't still have the gulf between the leagues.

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If you can't see how the game has improved since 1992 then there really is no helping you.

Watch many games in 1992 did you young Gavin? Was that after Bob the Builder or Thomas the Tank Engine? Only kidding son

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Watch many games in 1992 did you young Gavin? Was that after Bob the Builder or Thomas the Tank Engine? Only kidding son

Aye, my uncle played at Scarborough Pirates and later Hull FC in 1992, I never missed a game...

I never missed an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine either to be fair!

:D

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Great player that Andy Gregory was - and I watched him at his peak both for Wigan and GB, he wouldn't last a full game if he was playing today. He would not be fit enough, even with the rests he'd get in the sin bin - assuming he didn't get sent off!

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Great player that Andy Gregory was - and I watched him at his peak both for Wigan and GB, he wouldn't last a full game if he was playing today. He would not be fit enough, even with the rests he'd get in the sin bin - assuming he didn't get sent off!

I also struggle to class a player as a legend when he can't even pass both ways, which was not uncommon in those days.

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Aye, my uncle played at Scarborough Pirates and later Hull FC in 1992, I never missed a game...

I never missed an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine either to be fair!

:D

Starter for 10.

When did the Aussies go fully pro and when did we do that in the UK? Maybe this will help understand why we just couldn't beat them.

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A quantifier that can be used with count nouns - often preceded by "as" or "too" or "so" or "that"; amounting to a large but indefinite number; "many temptations"; "a good many"; "many directions"; more than a few, more than several

That's the dictionary definition, I want your definition when used in the context that you used it in. Many means different things in different contexts, so what did YOU mean by many.

There you go again cocooned in the top tier. What you fail to mention is many teams in the lower tier at that time were attracting crowds of 3 to 4k. Even teams at the bottom of that tier were getting around a 1000. Now there is not one team in the lowest tier of pro rugby getting 1000 and in the second tier averages are only around 1500.

In 93/94 only 1 club managed to top 3k in division 2 (there was only 1 tier below div1), 3,032,was acheived by Keighley so they just broke the 3k mark. The bottom 6 clubs were alll below 1,000 the highest of those 6 only got 788.

in 92/93 when there was 3 divisions not one club in the two second tier divisions managed 3k, closest to 3k was Oldham with 2,809.

in 91/92, the season when 3 divisions was re-introduced 2 clubs in the lower divisions scraped past 3k Oldham 3,149 and Leigh just scraped in at 3,014

To sumarise:

In 93/94 your definition of many is 1

In 92/93 your definition of many is 0

In 91/92 your definition of many is 2

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so from oldham to superleague to attendances to GB

anyway......how much are fish these days?

My last post mentioned Oldham twice, how on topic do you want it to be.

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So what you are saying is shut the (SL) door and keep it shut? Then where would most of the SL clubs get a lot of their young lads from?

They'd get them from Featherstone Lions, Oldham St.Annes, Keighley Albion, Doncaster Toll Bar, Leigh East, Hunslet Warriors, Rochdale Mayfield etc etc etc.

See what I did there???

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It's obvious RL doesn't work in London like it didn't in Wales.

It didn't work in York, and it didn't work in Rochdale, It failed in Workington, and it didn't work in Blackpool, it didn't work in Bramley and it didn't work in Oldham, it didn't work in Swinton. and it didn't work in Hunslet

See what i did there as well???

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They'd get them from Featherstone Lions, Oldham St.Annes, Keighley Albion, Doncaster Toll Bar, Leigh East, Hunslet Warriors, Rochdale Mayfield etc etc etc.

See what I did there???

Yeah I see what you've done. Would it happen though and be successful? I doubt it but you never know. But I've always said if their wasn't a featherstone rovers that would be me done with the game full stop. Ive never watched a SL game on TV ever since its started and only watched the CC if a champ club was playing.

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It didn't work in York, and it didn't work in Rochdale, It failed in Workington, and it didn't work in Blackpool, it didn't work in Bramley and it didn't work in Oldham, it didn't work in Swinton. and it didn't work in Hunslet

See what i did there as well???

Yes but they never tried pushing it in the likes of York, Oldham etc like they have in London and Wales and their is a big size difference to be fair.

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Yeah I see what you've done. Would it happen though and be successful? I doubt it but you never know. But I've always said if their wasn't a featherstone rovers that would be me done with the game full stop. Ive never watched a SL game on TV ever since its started and only watched the CC if a champ club was playing.

I find that very hard to believe.

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