Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

saints10coach

Oldham /Salford

836 posts in this topic

You are very selective

You pick on points and then go and make up claims

You dont think the money men of yesterday didnt put millions in?

You keep making up things

You make claims

You have your agenda

You twist peoples words.

You seem to feel SL is everything good in the game

I wont bother posting with you.

Sadly you've done the usual trick and turned the debate into one about me.

It's not about me.

I'm saying Superleague has brought in terms of investment from SKY and rich directors several hundred million pounds into the game over 17 years

It's brought tens of thousands more paying fans into the game

It is a big attraction to the kids who go on to watch it and aspire to play in it

To contrive to play this down to the extent you tried to do is very questionable.

Superleague has been a wonderful thing for the game and I'm astounded that people continue to deny this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have stated my case and you and your twin Parky can keep going and living in your world that SL is so great and good for the whole game. I cant be bothered responding to people who twist peoples words anymore. Enjoy

It is good for the game. Very good. Anyone got a viable alternative?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

on the "fiddling attendance" issue......

in the mid 90's at sheddings...whenever the attendance was announced over the pa...we'd all look at each other have have a little giggle..they'd say there was 2500 there....but the sheddings end would be packed out with more than 2500 people...lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone can claim SL has been good for the game as a whole. It hasn't even been good for the majority of SL clubs - it's been good for Wigan,Leeds, Saints, Wire and to a lesser extent Bulls. Hull will always prosper no matter what the format. The rest of the semi pro game have all struggled to a greater or less extent. IMO the only comp SL has truly been good for is the Union premiership - the advent of SL enabled them to get their pro game act together. And by god did they! They have a game that is not a patch on RL but are pulling in big crowds, and have a really high media profile - almost as high as soccer. Thanks Mo!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone can claim SL has been good for the game as a whole.

It's delivered a professional game that can hold it's own with Soccer and Union through the £250,000,000 it has attracted in investment over the course of it's 17 years.

That is by anyone's standards "good for the game as a whole"

And you'll be dancing a jig if you get in it :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone can claim SL has been good for the game as a whole. It hasn't even been good for the majority of SL clubs - it's been good for Wigan,Leeds, Saints, Wire and to a lesser extent Bulls. Hull will always prosper no matter what the format. The rest of the semi pro game have all struggled to a greater or less extent. IMO the only comp SL has truly been good for is the Union premiership - the advent of SL enabled them to get their pro game act together. And by god did they! They have a game that is not a patch on RL but are pulling in big crowds, and have a really high media profile - almost as high as soccer. Thanks Mo!

Yet Sale & Wasps in the Premiership and countless others in the lower leagues have all had financial troubles.

Having Chairmen that can't count isn't exclusive to Rugby League you know.

And Union's profile is nowhere near footballs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

financially many of the premiership union clubs are in a far worse state than the super league clubs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gave you an example with Halifax and Batley regarding crowd figures. Does it matter what percentage? Crowd figures are something that are not 100% as clubs have various means of counting people. Are ALL Season ticket holders counted and if so do All attend every game? Halifax gave away a thousand or more free tickets for the Batley game at the Halifax Show and included them in the crowd figure. You dont think clubs that have done something similar like Bradford have done the same? Its why I dont believe you can base too much of an argument on crowd figures as they are not 100% accurate.

I can only go off memory but Lindsay was with Wigan in the old second division going to Halifax on an old bus and he decided things needed to change at Wigan and so over the years he alongside others like Jack Robinson invested large amounts of Cash to turn things around. You cant tell me Lindsay didnt invest over a million in Wigan over the years that saw them go from Division two to a full time club signing the best players in the world.

I have stated my case and you and your twin Parky can keep going and living in your world that SL is so great and good for the whole game. I cant be bothered responding to people who twist peoples words anymore. Enjoy

Hilton, Lindsay, Robinson and Rathbone invested £112,000 between them in 1982 as a debenture loan, repayable strangely enough in 1995, most of the big transfer signings were paid for by outside investors/sponsors (JJB and Norweb being amongst the biggest investors) and the fact that Wigan's gates had gone from 5,000 to 14,000 they were awash with prize money. Players like Platt were paid for as out of court settlements following disputes and Betts, Edwards, Robinson, Farrell Clarke etc. were brought in as youngsters, Bell was not exactly signed as a glamour signing. Wigan also got good returns on their investments especially, Hanley and Gregory

If you add up all of the costs of the big transfers (even ignoring outside finance) you would struggle to get to a £1m spent between the entire board.

The big money was paid out in transfers for Hanley (who was part exchange), Gregory, Lydon, and Offiah. Its reckoned that with Hanley that the increase in gates over the next few home games paid off his transfer fee. A total of about £600,000 a very large chunk of which would have been bank loans.

Lindsay left Wigan in 1992 so Connoly , Paul, Quinnell, Tuigamala, Wright etc. had nothing to do with him.

How much money the Wigan directors chucked at the club is yet another RL myth perpetuated by the bitter and twisted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much money the Wigan directors chucked at the club is yet another RL myth perpetuated by the bitter and twisted.

Looks to me like that Neil Hudgell chucks as much at HKR every year?

Then there's that Ken Davey, and there's that David Hughes and that Rupert Murdoch etc etc etc.

Maybe men with big money don't want to be associated with anything but the elite end of a sport.

So I'm please we have an elite in Superleague.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm please we have an elite in Superleague.

It's not Elite. It just happens to be the best we've got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not Elite. It just happens to be the best we've got.

Then we must turn it into an elite to attract even more spondulies.

New management at Bradford and Wakefield, Widnes to kick on with O'connor, drop to 12 clubs for bigger SKY shares, save money using CC clubs as "A" teams. new investment at HKR and Salford where Barton can come to fruition, Saints new ground to continue to deliver, Toulouse entry to expand in France, More London and welsh kids to make the grade etc etc etc.

Elite here we come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then we must turn it into an elite to attract even more spondulies.

New management at Bradford and Wakefield, Widnes to kick on with O'connor, drop to 12 clubs for bigger SKY shares, save money using CC clubs as "A" teams. new investment at HKR and Salford where Barton can come to fruition, Saints new ground to continue to deliver, Toulouse entry to expand in France, More London and welsh kids to make the grade etc etc etc.

Elite here we come.

The maths is faulty again. 14 plus Toulouse = 15. To get to 12 clubs you need to drop 3 existing clubs. The RFL have promised a CC club a SL licence next time around so now you need to drop 4 exisiting clubs. Castleford and Hull KR are your designated targets so you have to find another two. The weakest of the remainder after the expulsion of Cas and KR would appear to be Bradford and London. An interesting dilemma for this mega successful competition that has to contract to survive, eh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's delivered a professional game that can hold it's own with Soccer and Union through the £250,000,000 it has attracted in investment over the course of it's 17 years.

That is by anyone's standards "good for the game as a whole"

And you'll be dancing a jig if you get in it :D

yadayadayada. Compared to standards in Aus, compared to standards in other games' leading comps SL is poor, in fact poor would be praise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's delivered a professional game that can hold it's own with Soccer and Union through the £250,000,000 it has attracted in investment over the course of it's 17 years.

That is by anyone's standards "good for the game as a whole"

And you'll be dancing a jig if you get in it :D

NO i'll be dancing a jig when we have proper P &R restored. If we get in under the current rules it'll be as bad for Fev as it is for Cas and Salford and as it would be for 'Fax and Sheffield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yadayadayada. Compared to standards in Aus, compared to standards in other games' leading comps SL is poor, in fact poor would be praise.

how do you even mske that comparison?

Yadayadayada indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2. Yorkshire amateurs juniors were decimated by half their kids going off to play for Harehills Pigeons on the back of Leeds Rhinos success. However it's not hard to work out why so many kids play in SL areas and so few in CC areas is it. After all SL remains the part of the game that attracts kids. Exactly how the process comes about is complicated and easy to parody and sneer at (not by you) but SL areas have the biggest number of kids playing, and kids are not blind to who the top teams are.

SL areas are generally large cities e.g. Leeds, Bradford, London or Hull or places where the games has always been particularly strong e.g. Wigan or Wakefield district. It's not surprising that a lot of kids play RL in those areas either there are huge numbers of kids or almost everyone plays RL in that area.

CC areas are either small towns like Batley or Whitehaven were there aren't many people or if it is a major city then the club is generally a new one e.g. Gateshead, Sheffield and the game has very shallow roots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing like reading the dynamics of the discussion here.

Oldham fans feeling like they've had the heart ripped out of their club and the absolute nerve of fans of big clubs telling them how they are entitled to feel about it. This is what is going on in our game.

Founder clubs with proud histories being sold down the river to become feeder clubs just to prop up a few lucky enough to be at the top table at this precise moment in time. Instead of offering these clubs real support we write them off and gut them.

Widnes have done a deal with Workington, and whilst I sincerely hope both clubs get something out of it and that we genuinely aid Workington to improve their current standing you will not catch me telling fans of theirs to just accept it and stop being bitter about it if any feel that way.

At the end of the day, if you support a top club, that does not make you a better class of fan. Stop writing people off when you foist something unpopular on their club. If you were in their position chances are you'd be feeling much the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Players like Platt were paid for as out of court settlements following disputes and Betts, Edwards, Robinson, Farrell Clarke etc. were brought in as youngsters, Bell was not exactly signed as a glamour signing. Wigan also got good returns on their investments especially, Hanley and Gregory

The big money was paid out in transfers for Hanley (who was part exchange), Gregory, Lydon, and Offiah. Its reckoned that with Hanley that the increase in gates over the next few home games paid off his transfer fee. A total of about £600,000 a very large chunk of which would have been bank loans.

Lindsay left Wigan in 1992 so Connoly , Paul, Quinnell, Tuigamala, Wright etc. had nothing to do with him.

Some very fine players mentioned there Padge. Does anyone dare to mention today's equivalents?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing like reading the dynamics of the discussion here.

Oldham fans feeling like they've had the heart ripped out of their club and the absolute nerve of fans of big clubs telling them how they are entitled to feel about it. This is what is going on in our game.

Founder clubs with proud histories being sold down the river to become feeder clubs just to prop up a few lucky enough to be at the top table at this precise moment in time. Instead of offering these clubs real support we write them off and gut them.

Widnes have done a deal with Workington, and whilst I sincerely hope both clubs get something out of it and that we genuinely aid Workington to improve their current standing you will not catch me telling fans of theirs to just accept it and stop being bitter about it if any feel that way.

At the end of the day, if you support a top club, that does not make you a better class of fan. Stop writing people off when you foist something unpopular on their club. If you were in their position chances are you'd be feeling much the same.

Absolutely right. Well said that man!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top post, Bulletproof

No one dare create topics or debate the pros and cons of any area affecting RL if that subject if it anyway disrupts the status quo in SL.

Keyboards light up and endless streams of posts are generated to shout down those posters.

At times it seems - a poster from outside SL = 2nd class citizen. Some are completely ridiculed, I don't why they carry on debating.

Any poster has a right to debate any subject they want on this board (subject to mods approval) and whether they agree or disagree, their point of view is a relevant as anyone elses, whether they support Bradford or Batley or whether they want a total ring-fenced SL or a liquid P & R situation.

Its disappointing at times. We are here to debate, to generate ideas & discussions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks to me like that Neil Hudgell chucks as much at HKR every year?

Then there's that Ken Davey, and there's that David Hughes and that Rupert Murdoch etc etc etc.

Maybe men with big money don't want to be associated with anything but the elite end of a sport.

So I'm please we have an elite in Superleague.

Lindsay and Co only had to support a part time team. When the club decided to sign players to full time (along with others) contracts things changed, they didn't change when when wigan said we'll take the aussies on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NO i'll be dancing a jig when we have proper P &R restored. If we get in under the current rules it'll be as bad for Fev as it is for Cas and Salford and as it would be for 'Fax and Sheffield

You'll dance a jig on the death of RL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the question is why the Salford / Oldham thing is seemingly a bigger deal than any of the other link-ups.

Is it because within living memory Oldham were a bigger club than Salford whereas nobody can remember Hunslet looking down on Leeds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SL areas are generally large cities e.g. Leeds It's not surprising that a lot of kids play RL in those areas

Solly. Leeds has seen new junior clubs spring up over the years of it's success, Widnes have lost a strong junior base over the years of their decline.

Your barking up the wrong tree here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 24th July 2017

Rugby League World - August 2017