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saints10coach

Oldham /Salford

836 posts in this topic

The RFL received 29 million from Sport England. How has that been spent?

We keep hearing about how development officers are being made redundant. In what areas? Can this money and development officers be broken down by area of the country and what structure they are supporting?

Only then can we address some of the assertions in the above posts about what money has been developing what number of players.

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Be careful with your argument here, in 91/92 Halifax averaged just over 7,000 and a couple of other seasons around the same time of over 6,000. Against the poor draw teams they could manage 5k, which is pretty reasonable.

Problem was the crowds were success based, success goes, crowds go, crowds go, money goes, club dive bombs.

Not really as Halifax dropped out of the top division in 1990 and yet still averaged crowds of 4000. So fans didnt just follow the success. The poor management of the club and the way the CEO Nigel Wood and the club alienated many fans and treated them badly by ignoring requests and info about rumours the club was in severe debt and poor communication on the state of things and the way such things as the sale of Thrum Hall etc led to many people simply walking away and refusing to follow the club. Its the clubs failure and poor management that drove many fans away back then. The club has to do much more for me to be in SL as I dont think off field its ready. That has more to do with how the club is run rather than money at this stage. It has an army of volunteers when some things should be paid jobs. There is a latent support for the game in the town. A SL club alone wouldnt bring them to the game that needs proeprly done with a well run club with good communication and openness amongst other things. SL would obviously help but its not the only answer to seeing Fax get crowds of 6-7000. Many younger fans in Halifax probably like many places dont attend that many games whether it be SL or Championship as they themselves play on a Sunday. Some people in Halifax, despite the rubbish Parky puts abouts this, do attend SL games at Huddersfield, Bradford and Leeds regularly. But then I do know Huddersfield or Bradford born and bred people who are Fax fans. The good thing is Halifax has such a strong amateur and junior scene so there is always potential. Its just how the club can work off that. In the past the Pro and amateur game have been at loggerheads in a big way. Things are better but still not what they should be

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I'll stop when you can answer a simple question.

When people become personal and offensive is the point when they have no answer other than to attack the questioner.

2. I don't think any level headed well mannered person would stoop so low as to let their petty jealousies cloud their judgement

ANYWAY it's past your bedtime....

Sorry you were offended. I've cut and paste your comments to help your memory if you're feeling delicate this morning. With that kind of attitude you attract it.

And I guess the question you are referring to is the pointless one about where we might be if the earth was flat?

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The good thing is Halifax has such a strong amateur and junior scene so there is always potential. Its just how the club can work off that. In the past the Pro and amateur game have been at loggerheads in a big way. Things are better but still not what they should be

To refer to the OP, I think this is the key next step to all the link ups. It's a critical time for RL in determining whether there is a future for cooperation rather than as it seems, barriers between the 3 versions of the game.

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By 3 versions of the game I presume you mean SL, Championship and amateur. If so I agree with your post in that those barriers have to be managed and broken down. I just don't think that at this point in time we have enough leaders with sufficient professionalism to do that in the Uk. Great at PR that actually says nothing, though. However, I'd add Internationals into that and there's barriers between 4 versions of the game as the Aussies are still developing their own rules.

I was a proponent of summer rugby before it came in, and still believe it to be so, especially for development of kids.

However, the game is contracting at amateur level, (despite higher numbers outside of the heartlands) and the wedge between winter/summer is driving some of that, with the overlapping of seasons and fixtures not being fulfilled. The RFL have supported a decision to reduce numbers at academy/u-20/u-23 level which in no way is going to expand RL's footprint or participation. This for me is a crucial area that the RFL and BARLA have to address instead of being lazy and just producing PR spin press releases about how successful the change to summer has been. Its wearing thin with me.

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Nobody from Halifax watches SL I am assured.

More lies from you and making things up. But thats how you do things. People from Halifax do watch Bradford, Leeds and Huddersfield regularly. But I know peple born and bred in Huddersfield and Bradford who follow Halifax and have never been to a SL game. So what.

I wonder if you want to have a go at this one - the CC lads don't. "Where do you think Rugby League would be today if the game had rejected the SKY offer of millions of pounds a year to stage an elite competition

More lies from you. People have answered the question but you dont like the answers and refuse to accept them. And the question posed doesnt have a real answer based on facts as anything can happen especially over a 17 year period which could have been good/bad for the game. We dont know whether Sky actually save the pro game and to what extent its just opinion based. Its likely it saved a number of pro clubs but it didnt save the game as a whole as has been mentioned.
When people become personal and offensive is the point when they have no answer other than to attack the questioner.

I attack you because you attack others and belittle others and then post something with no evidence and then when replying to what others put you dont answer properly or ignore what they put. You put out questions out where there is no real answer and you refuse to accept anything different if it goes against your thinking. You dont like the answers given so twist what people say or completely ignore them. If you dont like it thats your problem with how people respond to you.

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Great player that Andy Gregory was - and I watched him at his peak both for Wigan and GB, he wouldn't last a full game if he was playing today. He would not be fit enough, even with the rests he'd get in the sin bin - assuming he didn't get sent off!

So would Andy Gregory not have access to full-time training if he was around today? You're making a false comparison.

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Shows how little you know about the game when you come out with such statements which are wrong. Luke Robinson, Gareth Widdop, Stuart Fielden, Joe Wardle, Adam O´brien, Scott Grix, Simon Grix, Jacob Fairbank, Niall Evalds are all from Halifax and all in SL or NRL first team squads. Maybe theres others dont know as havent really looked too much at who is signed up for 2013. Daniel Fleming is at Cas but will be loaned to Batley this year. Others Halifax lads like England Academy player James Saltonstall alongside Zak Dewhurst, William Milner, Josh Casey and Alex Mellor are at SL U18s teams and have also all represented England. There are others as well from Halifax at U18s teams. Then of course there are many professionals playing in the Championship both with Halifax like Sam Barlow, Luke Ambler, Anthony bowman and others elsewhere like James Haley, Liam Finn and Byrom Smith. Also Siddal have one of the best amateur clubs in the UK and Elland and Ovenden also play in the National Conference. So how has London produced far more professionals than Halifax? Or are you just trying to wind people up? hahaha

Can we claim the Grixes, their dad is from Thorne.

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Same amount of time???

Halifax were formed in 1873?? London have 107 years to go to catch up with that.

Same amount of money???

How much more money does Junior RL in the south east of the country receive over junior RL in Halifax??

You know a bit about Donny - who did Ian Kirke start with and where did he develop as a professional?

Was it at Doncaster RLFC?

You know exactly what I mean Padge, sorry Parky!!! For someone who claims to be Hunslet to the core it does seem you've lost the will and like many more from the industrial heart of Leeds have thrown your hat well and truely in the Rhinos camp...................It's not Gary is it ?

You also for some reason seem to think because a junior player hone's his core skills at a pro clubs academy that his early conditioning at the amateur club who gave the young lad the chance to get involved with the sport counts for nothing, I've seen a lot of the coaches at amateur clubs that are far better than many at the pro club academies.

The only club in Donny with a conveyor belt of juniors is Toll Bar and at a guess I'd say he would have gone to Hull FC along with most Toll Bar juniors of his age group and would have gone through the South Yorkshire service area with the likes of Peter & Wayne Green, Craig Lawton, Daz & Liam Higgins and Co)

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You know exactly what I mean Padge, sorry Parky!!! For someone who claims to be Hunslet to the core it does seem you've lost the will and like many more from the industrial heart of Leeds have thrown your hat well and truely in the Rhinos camp...................It's not Gary is it ?

You really are barking up the wrong tree.

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Yes that's right.

Rich men do not settle for second best so either they pick up a Superleague club like Leeds, Wire or Wigan...

Or they pick up a CC club like Hull.K.R, or Widnes and make it into a Superkeague club.

Thing is HKR and Widnes are big clubs in my lifetime who had big potential to get back to the top.

Rich men would not touch actual CC/small clubs like keighley and Hunslet.

We have to live with this my friend :D

Never won nowt much York were once in the top division did that make them a big club? In your mind yes :rolleyes:

Won dozens of trophies Wigan were once a CC club for a year- were they a small club that year? In your mind yes :lol:

Rich men want to invest in big clubs and do.

Small clubs dont get rich men investing.

Focus on this carefully and stop focusing on me.

Who was the poster saying there were no critical and negative posts about CC clubs. Here is a prime example. The worst kind of zealot, one who transferred his allegiance from Hunslet to Leeds and feels a need to justify his decision.

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No not really.

London produce far more professionals than Halifax.

Halifax draw around 2,000 fans.

I've been in the odd Thrum Hall crowd with several thousand Leeds fans. (geddit?)

CC clubs do well crowd wise when the big away side is down the road.

ANYWAY it's past your bedtime....

London as a city, a mega city, produces more professional players than Halifax. Given the size of the two in comparison to each other so it should.

For the unmpteenth time of telling though, it is not London broncos who produce all these players. It is the large amateur base 30 miles away in North and South east London, Greenwich, South London Storm, Haringey, Medway etc who produce the players thanks to the volunteers who tirelessly run these clubs and the RL development officers, if there are any left after the recent cuts, wwho find and nuture these players in the game of RL.

Broncos get to cherry pick the best of those for their SL team but they don't develop them.

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Try finding a CC club that gets bigger crowds than London Broncos and produces more professional players???

Go on try.........

Let me know when you can't find anyone.

You know the Broncos once averaged 5,400 fans.

Try finding CC clubs that could match that??

I would hazard a guess tghat half their crowds are away supporters. What do you think they woulod average if they were in the championships. The last time they were there it was about 700. I cpould find a bunch of CC clubs that could match that.

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1. I noticed that. I have this feeling that their hatred clouds their judgement to some extent...

Well thinking about it, maybe to a large extent.....

Erm well, thinking about it again, to such an extreme extent they argue black is white....

e.g if Pro SL collapsed grass roots interest will not flounder and GB semi pros will do better against Australia.

2. I don't think any level headed well mannered person would stoop so low as to let their petty jealousies cloud their judgement

Is that a self analysis in point 2.?

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I am of course indebted to your kind reply.

I plead guilty to being a tad careless with my post.

However I like the idea Halifax when playing well could only manage 5,000 when they didn't have the honour of a lot of away fans coming from just oop t' road.

Bit like London who equally could manage 5,000 when they were playing well but were however playing well 200 miles from M62 Land and away fans.

I do remember when Halifax were playing poorly in SL they averaged 2,977 with the advantage of many away fans a car ride away.

So maybe there's nothing in it crowds wise.

That leaves the RFL deciding which club can bring on the most professionals to expand the player pool.

No contest.....

The 200 miles away argument is bogus. SL fans from up North used to go to London to watch their team play the London SL side in their thousands. They made it a real day out before the advent of the Perpignan trip as the big day out. They were and still are a major proportion of London's SL crowds,.

As far as the most professionals argument goes, its the amateur game that produces the professiionals not the Broncos and furthermore the Broncos record on the field would suggest that the quality of professionals they are producing is not so high and maybe some are just making up the numbers and some are not of the same calibre as the professionals being snapped up in the North.

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I forgot to mention that also apart from the dead ones there are those that have been stolen by Bradford, Huddersfield, Leeds and keighley.

Do you have any evidence that Halifax people in any numbers cross over the hills to support Keighley.? The Cougars gates would suggest they don't.

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Shows how you twist things.

You know full well how it works so don't twist it.

Halifax Junior RL is a magnificent organisation that produces top quality players who are signed up and developed by various SL clubs.

Hunslet is also a fine area for Leeds to scout professional quality talent for their Superleague academy and ultimately the first team squad.

Where Halifax and Hunslet RLFC come into It I don't know? Do you??

Same thing applies in London. Where the Broncos come into it I don't know.

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I'll stop when you can answer a simple question.

When people become personal and offensive is the point when they have no answer other than to attack the questioner.

Quite. The phrase " You silly little man" comes to mind.

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So would Andy Gregory not have access to full-time training if he was around today? You're making a false comparison.

Wasn't he a full time professional at the only full time professional club at that time, namely Wigan ?

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Wasn't he a full time professional at the only full time professional club at that time, namely Wigan ?

I think the definition/expectation of full-time pro 20 yrs ago is very different to what it is today.

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Same thing applies in London. Where the Broncos come into it I don't know.

What an incredibly silly thing to say?

The Broncos run the academy system and offer full time careers to the best local amateur lads who make it through.

If you don't know that you shouldn't be on here.

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Quite. The phrase " You silly little man" comes to mind.

Stop being silly like above then. BTW you added the "little" didn't you ;)

Tell me what you want, because you can at times be honest.

Do you want to carry on bashing Superleague like the rest of them, and then bashing me, or shall we discuss how we can get a meaningful system of P & R going in which the "divide" is reduced to attain all inclusiveness?

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You also for some reason seem to think because a junior player hone's his core skills at a pro clubs academy that his early conditioning at the amateur club who gave the young lad the chance to get involved with the sport counts for nothing,

You didn't get it.

The point was amateur clubs find 'em and teach 'em the game and professional clubs develop 'em into professionals.

The problem is some people think the championship clubs are in that system somewhere.They aren't, they feed off the scraps.

championship clubs need to decide what they want to do. Be "A" teams of bigger SL neighbours, or be independent and aim to be professional clubs.

RFL/SLE need to see how they can include the latter.

People on here would do well to discuss this rather than make stuff up about how awful Superleague is.

Especially when they really want to be in it.

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2. I don't think any level headed well mannered person would stoop so low as to let their petty jealousies cloud their judgement

ANYWAY it's past your bedtime....

Sorry you were offended. I've cut and paste your comments to help your memory if you're feeling delicate this morning. With that kind of attitude you attract it.

And I guess the question you are referring to is the pointless one about where we might be if the earth was flat?

I wouldn't try to use a little joke I had with Marauder who took it in the sense it was meant as some sort of get out, it's rather pathetic.

The question that you and you ilk won't answer will lead you to the answer as regards the value of Superleague.

It's pretty much the game's saviour.

So we need to accept it and discuss how it can be more inclusive of those clubs who seriously want to compete in it.

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Who was the poster saying there were no critical and negative posts about CC clubs. Here is a prime example. The worst kind of zealot, one who transferred his allegiance from Hunslet to Leeds and feels a need to justify his decision.

it was me, and i did acknowledge that there were exceptions. I had no idea Parksider supported Leeds.

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