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saints10coach

Oldham /Salford

836 posts in this topic

as ever yor selective memory is serving you well

come on Chris you can do better than that be more specific

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You were saying *exactly* the same things well before licensing or no p&r Trojan.

I think you you'll find I wasn't. My first posts regarding this subject were in the spring of 2008 when this system was first mooted.

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I think you you'll find I wasn't. My first posts regarding this subject were in the spring of 2008 when this system was first mooted.

I can recall you saying you were fed up of RL and were going to walk away from the game about 2003 citing it was a farce etc. You have repeated it a few times since but with differing reasons.

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if your club ....

Again you use 'your club' when referring to Fev. Are you sure you've not fallen out with the BOD?

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Again you use 'your club' when referring to Fev. Are you sure you've not fallen out with the BOD?

I no longer have an involvement with a rugby league club: my reasons are my business, but don't relate to the BOD. I seem to recall saying that in a previous post. I still enjoy rugby league though HTH. Thanks for your interest.

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come on Chris you can do better than that be more specific

for crying out loud you've been getting chapter and verse for years.

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Personally I'd like clubs to be more open and honest about their stance on the current structure of the top levels of the game.

I suspect the 14 SL clubs are probably in favour of licensing (although lets not forget that if one of the lower clubs got relegated then they have to live with a minimum of three years out of SL just like other clubs). I also suspect that many of the smaller Championship clubs are happy with licensing, as it should help to drive clubs to be stronger in their divisions in a more controlled way rather than throwing loads of money at on-field performance to get promotion.

It'd be interesting to know if there is simply a small number of clubs (3-5) who are not happy with the situation.

If that is the case then there are two options - 1) do what we can to get the 3-5 included in the top level (SL2 for example) or 2) get on with it and keep to what the clubs want and voted for.

On a similar point, fans opinions ultimately count for little unless they are followed up with changes in behaviour. People may state that fewer championship fans go to the RL events, but tbh I suspect there is little evidence for this. GF crowds have grown and are at a very healthy level. Challenge Cup final crowds remain very healthy (it was only a couple of years ago that Wire v Leeds got 85k sell out). If anything has affected these crowds I'd suspect it would be the horrendous financial situation rather than licensing.

If you did a survey and asked if people wanted P&R to return, I suspect that you would get a majority vote for a return - but ultimately if that is a solution the game can't afford then this needs to be over-ruled by strong leadership. Behaviour is more important than opinion - we need to make sure that a few loud opinions don't rule over the correct decisions.

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Personally I'd like clubs to be more open and honest about their stance on the current structure of the top levels of the game.

I suspect the 14 SL clubs are probably in favour of licensing (although lets not forget that if one of the lower clubs got relegated then they have to live with a minimum of three years out of SL just like other clubs). I also suspect that many of the smaller Championship clubs are happy with licensing, as it should help to drive clubs to be stronger in their divisions in a more controlled way rather than throwing loads of money at on-field performance to get promotion.

It'd be interesting to know if there is simply a small number of clubs (3-5) who are not happy with the situation.

If that is the case then there are two options - 1) do what we can to get the 3-5 included in the top level (SL2 for example) or 2) get on with it and keep to what the clubs want and voted for.

Yes I agree wholeheartedly.

There's something rather stupid about people proposing clubs be forced to become professionals like the SL1 & SL2 nonsense.

Back in the real world the problem is simple.

Are all the clubs who want to turn and stay pro being offered that chance to do so???

There's a massive difference between the B.O.D/Chairman teasing fans with talk of Superleague and those who are deadly serious.

For me.....

1. Featherstone - deadly serious - in they go

2. Sheffield - not got the money, so are just hoping it comes from somewhere?

3. Halifax - not got the money, so are hoping it comes from somewhere?

4. Leigh - not got the money, so are hpoing it comes from somewhere?

The latter three have a hard task to convince anyone they are serious today, as their former efforts in SL are there to haunt them.

Applying for Superleague does not stand as proof of a serious application as Mr Des Johnson showed.

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Yes I agree wholeheartedly.

There's something rather stupid about people proposing clubs be forced to become professionals like the SL1 & SL2 nonsense.

Back in the real world the problem is simple.

Are all the clubs who want to turn and stay pro being offered that chance to do so???

There's a massive difference between the B.O.D/Chairman teasing fans with talk of Superleague and those who are deadly serious.

For me.....

1. Featherstone - deadly serious - in they go

2. Sheffield - not got the money, so are just hoping it comes from somewhere?

3. Halifax - not got the money, so are hoping it comes from somewhere?

4. Leigh - not got the money, so are hpoing it comes from somewhere?

The latter three have a hard task to convince anyone they are serious today, as their former efforts in SL are there to haunt them.

Applying for Superleague does not stand as proof of a serious application as Mr Des Johnson showed.

Where are Featherstone getting the money from? Probiz? How much money has he invested in the past into clubs he backed?

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Where are Featherstone getting the money from? Probiz? How much money has he invested in the past into clubs he backed?

We are told Mr. Nahaboo from Probiz is likely to back the bid with money. Apologies to Terry M. if wrong but I think he indicated Mr. N. was committing to ensuring a full salary cap spend.

Mr. Lizard also suggested Mr. Abbott could be the man at your club? What do you think??

Personally I like people with money and a will to back a club to just come out and do it like Mr. O'Connor did.

Today James Rule reflected on how Widnes would not have made Superleagfue without Mr. O'Connor and "may not have survived in the championship either". He confirmed O'Connor money as "propping up the vikings"

You know you just can't blame CC clubs for tying up with SL clubs and vice-versa.......

Mr. Rule also says that the club faced and stilL face "ENORMOUS CHALLENGES MAKING THE TRANSITION FROM SEMI PRO TO PROFESSIONAL".

The P & R brigade should note that, and note that Widnes would not have made it without O'Connors money and will not survive without it unless they can grow the business - and results haven't been that great.

To advocate clubs who have no such riches should go up one year and maybe go down the next because that suits someone personally is to condemn a club to one slim (or no) chance that could ruin them. Still that's fantasy RL for you.

The debate should be about closing that gap IF anyone is really serious - do you think Nahaboo is Mr. Other??

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We are told Mr. Nahaboo from Probiz is likely to back the bid with money. Apologies to Terry M. if wrong but I think he indicated Mr. N. was committing to ensuring a full salary cap spend.

Mr. Lizard also suggested Mr. Abbott could be the man at your club? What do you think??

Personally I like people with money and a will to back a club to just come out and do it like Mr. O'Connor did.

Today James Rule reflected on how Widnes would not have made Superleagfue without Mr. O'Connor and "may not have survived in the championship either". He confirmed O'Connor money as "propping up the vikings"

You know you just can't blame CC clubs for tying up with SL clubs and vice-versa.......

Mr. Rule also says that the club faced and stilL face "ENORMOUS CHALLENGES MAKING THE TRANSITION FROM SEMI PRO TO PROFESSIONAL".

The P & R brigade should note that, and note that Widnes would not have made it without O'Connors money and will not survive without it unless they can grow the business - and results haven't been that great.

To advocate clubs who have no such riches should go up one year and maybe go down the next because that suits someone personally is to condemn a club to one slim (or no) chance that could ruin them. Still that's fantasy RL for you.

The debate should be about closing that gap IF anyone is really serious - do you think Nahaboo is Mr. Other??

Do I think he will put money in? Going by what he has put into clubs in the past after making grand statements. No I don't.

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Do I think he will put money in? Going by what he has put into clubs in the past after making grand statements. No I don't.

Well without that O'Connor figure they may struggle.

But I subscribe to the idea that any club serious about being a top division club should at least be given a chance to see what they can do? Don't you??

I believe Featherstone are the only serious club never to have had a fair chance to have a go.

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. Behaviour is more important than opinion - we need to make sure that a few loud opinions don't rule over the correct decisions.

But surely, the "correct decisions" are only reached by some other loud opinion from others!!! Who is to say who is correct for everyone is merely expressing opinions?

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Who is to say who is correct for everyone is merely expressing opinions?

Well debate can move forward if views are exchanged in good faith and facts presented to assist in that.

Would you allow me the opinion the earth is flat?

Or that Superleague has attracted thousands of new fans to the game?

In good faith with no axe to grind I am currently seeking the answer on balance to whether the game should have accepted SKY money or just stayed part time.

Marauder suggests part time because he feels those remaining in the game would all be happier.

And I'm happy with that. Fair point.

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But surely, the "correct decisions" are only reached by some other loud opinion from others!!! Who is to say who is correct for everyone is merely expressing opinions?

I disagree 100% with your 1st line.

Correct decisions can be made all of the time without some other loud opinion from others, so I'm not really sure what you mean.

Nothing will be correct for everyone, there will always be unhappy parties I suspect. If it is right for the majority (and this needs to be backed up with behaviours that we see) then that is good enough.

BTW, my post wasn't about condemning people with different opinions, it is right that people should be able to voice any concerns or differing views, but how much they influence key decisions is a different matter.

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for crying out loud you've been getting chapter and verse for years.

Not where "my selective memory" is concerned I haven't. As far as the disussion re P&R I think most of us can plead guilty to "chapter and verse" Face it Chris if you can't win the argument you get personal. I hope I haven't resorted to the same tactics.

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I can recall you saying you were fed up of RL and were going to walk away from the game about 2003 citing it was a farce etc. You have repeated it a few times since but with differing reasons.

I haven't been posting on here since 2003. 2004 more like. But I was quite happy with the way things were in those days. I was happy to attend test matches, CC finals, Grand Finals, I even met the TRL crew in the Moon Under Water at the 2006 GF and had my picture taken with them.

But it is true, I have withdrawn from support for "RFL occasions" I watch my team (although due to circumstances I couldn't control I missed quite a bit of last season) But as far as the wider game goes give it a miss. I watch it on TV, - but not if I have to pay! :dry:

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Where are Featherstone getting the money from? Probiz? How much money has he invested in the past into clubs he backed?

dunno about other clubs but rovers are sponsored well by probiz. Money last season was banked and spent.

Money for this season is received up front.

What does it matter where fev are getting their wad from?

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dunno about other clubs but rovers are sponsored well by probiz. Money last season was banked and spent.

Money for this season is received up front.

What does it matter where fev are getting their wad from?

Surely it matters a lot in terms of fairness and 'morality'- a term you and others use frequently when talking about rugby league when it suits.

What are your views on tax avoidance by the rich?

Or am I being a ###### in a swimming pool/clown/someone who gets into games for free.

If my friends are being lied about and abused I stand up for them. Do you?

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Chris. One again you're bringing in your fav question when fev is mentioned. Repeatedly you keep attempting to lever tangent questions into threads that aren't a supplement/info to the direction of the thread but a complete de-rail which is infuriating to the forum user. I have no intention of getting involved in that question on this thread or others you try and de-rail.

As for the other stuff.... not on a public forum Chris.

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The RFL and the introduction of SL killed clubs like ours because we wouldn't do what they wanted I.e join forces with our near neighbours and form a team called Calder or something stupid like that. We wanted to be featherstone rovers not a union. So we get stuffed on for wanting to be featherstone rovers and not do what the RFL want.

So the RFL/SLE stuffed Fev then????

Did they stuff Cas and Wakey as well? No they are in SL

What stuffed Fev was the club stopped producing the great players of old.

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So the RFL/SLE stuffed Fev then????

Did they stuff Cas and Wakey as well? No they are in SL

What stuffed Fev was the club stopped producing the great players of old.

But you said it was the amateur sides that produced the great players. What's different is that amateurs instead of opting to start their careers at Fev, (or their equivalent local side) which in the days when Fev played in the top flght they did before perhaps moving on, they now start at Leeds etc. Robbie Burrow is a prime example, played for Fev Lions, as are the Briscoes. Whiting at Hull and Danny Kirmond did play for Fev but were signed by SL clubs for a song.

What's wrong is there's no convenient way back for these teams. Bradford City are pushing for a way back, in two or three seasons they could be back in the Premiership, given their crowds there's nothing really to stop them. The same does not apply to similarly placed RL sides. That's what I object to.

Fev have had three very good seasons. But Stuart Dickens, the man Darryl called in to steady the ship if things got rocky has gone. it remains to be seen if they are still as good without him. If they aren't what then? But what if Fev are? What if they have the money, the record, the ground and jump through all the other hoops to qualify for a franchise? Does that mean that someone already in is to dropped? Why? What if they also fulfil the criteria? It's a senseless system.

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Chris. One again you're bringing in your fav question when fev is mentioned. Repeatedly you keep attempting to lever tangent questions into threads that aren't a supplement/info to the direction of the thread but a complete de-rail which is infuriating to the forum user. I have no intention of getting involved in that question on this thread or others you try and de-rail.

As for the other stuff.... not on a public forum Chris.

Of course you can please yourself

But the point is that when it suits you and others fairness, justice, and that big favourite of yours 'morality' is invoked repeatedly(apparently repetition is ok for some but not others). Yet nobody bats an eyelid when your club is sponsored by a company that specialises in tax avoidance for the rich. Personally I don't care but then again I don't whine about the immorality and unfairness of the way the game is run when the game is run in a way that doesn't confirm a narrow 'entrenched'(your word) parochial self serving view of things.

As for the rest, well that's just fine

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There is a hell of a lot more stopping Bradford City getting to the PL than on field events. They get decent crowds on the back of cheap season tickets, which doesn't bring much money in really. They are badly in need of cash and don't even own their ground and owe a former director several arms and legs. And all this after multi millions from their time in the PL?

But do carry on using them as a good example with which to beat RL with.

nb I now have a 25 year season ticket for Bradford City.

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