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saints10coach

Oldham /Salford

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You can't operate an SL club based on the hope that away support is going to pay your bills.

You also cant operate a club living in dreamworld which is what most of SL has been doing since it started. There reality is that SL is a league that is not viable for no more than 5 or 6 teams. the rest shouldnt be there and can only afford part time rugby.

But the money for Super League is not there, unless someone else can tell us otherwise??

The money is not there for fev, Halifax or Sheffield. But then its also not really there for London, Hull KR, Castleford, Salford, Bradford etc or else they would not have got in to so many problems. Huddersfield dont have the money without Davy. What happens when Davys money stops? What plans do Huddersfield have? Rugby League has bad management problems both at club and RFL level. Too many living the dream but not having the means or support for things. Realistically the future doesnt look good for the game in general. The game has too many fractions that fight against each other and not enough money or people to properly develop both clubs at Pro and amateur level.

Have to agree, but the young support want Superleague, I'd like to see them get it. I'd like to see kids in Oldham, Swinton, Rochdale and all around the M60 being taken by their dads to Barton for a dose of Devilmania! That's just me putting the game before the clubs....
Sorry but I think you will find more youngsters are attracted to Soccer or Computers than going along to Rugby League. 3 or 4 clubs do attract youngsters because of their name and success. But most Sl clubs must fight hard to get youngsters going. Even giving out free tickets to schoolkids is no guarentee that they will come. The development of youngsters watching RL needs to come not from Pro clubs but from development officers and school youth officers- which the RFL have cut back on.

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They'll be published in the next articles of membership and operational rules in the RFL along with the other documents the RFL publishes regularly.

Yes, perhaps what I should have said was 'publish in advance'.

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Finance rules sport, and unfortunately this is belt tightening across the board but if it means clubs survive then so be it. Teams like Oldham, Workington etc will never be super league clubs again

Im just grateful to have a team to be able to support, the hypocrisy of some fans who have had clubs packed with loanees from other teams for the last several seasons (Oldham and Barrow being two) is unbelievable

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Finance rules sport, and unfortunately this is belt tightening across the board but if it means clubs survive then so be it. Teams like Oldham, Workington etc will never be super league clubs again

Im just grateful to have a team to be able to support, the hypocrisy of some fans who have had clubs packed with loanees from other teams for the last several seasons (Oldham and Barrow being two) is unbelievable

Our packed squad of loanees from last season involved:

Ryan Duffy, Ryan Shaw (born and bred in barrow) and Brad Brennan (signed on permanently for this season.)

Then players who lived outside south cumbria were James Dandy, Andy Ballard and Andy Bracek. I barely think that's a squad packed full of loanees when 85 percent of the squad were local.

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If a bunch backward looking old fogies want to walk away from the club because they don't like it, ..

A tad unfair. After all, it's these old fogies that have made the club..and indeed the town, what it is today......... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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No matter what the RFL do including no P and R which IMO is ridiculous and it's killing our sport we will never achieve what the RFL want us to achieve and that's beat the Aussies it won't happen ever.

So, the Aussies who have no P&R, are out of sight? How? Hasn't not having p&r damaged their chances? Doesn't seem to have.

Can you explain how RL is dying? Especially when it has never been wider supported or played? Royal Engineers or Corinthians don't seem to win the FA Cup these days...is soccer doomed?

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A tad unfair. After all, it's these old fogies that have made the club..and indeed the town, what it is today......... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Not a very nice thing to say. These people have a right to their opinion and have continued to support their club through some very difficult and disappointing times. Hardly them to blame for Oldham's plight I'd suggest.

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On a more serious note... there is nothing more serious than the thought that there are those who, it appears, harking back to some non-existent "better days" would rather see the game wither and die than see it save itself through adopting progressive remedial action.

" I think you will find more youngsters are attracted to Soccer or Computers than going along to Rugby League." So no change there, then. In my day as as pathetic prop for Moorside Juniors (Swinton) in the early 1960s, we struggled to put out a full team. Crossing the city to play for Manchester YMCA 3rd XV in the same era ( no bar on RL players, please note) they too struggled to put out a full team. There have ALWAYS been counter-attractions for virile young men!

And it isn't just SL clubs that have to manage their finances, can't always make ends meet and frequently have to seek additional finance. They are just a mirror of modern business: TESCO don't have a licence to print money, they have to work hard to retain every single customer they have. Ford makes massive losses..and not just at present, but for many years. It has only survived by innovation in design, manufacturing service and finance it has evolved to survive in the modern era...as our game must do...or die, as some seem to want.

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Not a very nice thing to say. These people have a right to their opinion and have continued to support their club through some very difficult and disappointing times. Hardly them to blame for Oldham's plight I'd suggest.

We all have a right to our opinions. We all have to live with the consequences of our actions. If these "old fogies" cease to support their club ( as so many have done ) then they will have to live with the consequences.

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Sorry but I think you will find more youngsters are attracted to Soccer or Computers than going along to Rugby League.

And this is the fault of the RFL? :blink:

It's been like this forever, RL would be a lot bigger otherwise.

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teams we had in the past,whether they be australian,kiwis or loan players....ARE PLAYERS WE'VE SELECTED TO MAKE OUR TEAM "BETTER"..

its not and never been a case of being TOLD by another 'parent club' that we MUST play who we send you!!

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Oh give over with this "you don't care" nonsense, I care more than most, and especially so called Oldham supporters who would sooner see the club die by withdrawing support for an utterly ridiculous reason.

Why not lets all carry on down the same old useless well trodden waste of time path, The youth of Oldham abandoned the club years ago, well before the advent of SL, nearly every RL club in the eighties had a massive problem of an ageing, dying demographic. The RFL had been warned about this time and time again, but the clubs couldn't or wouldn't see it. Oldham's problems, and other clubs, are of the making of generations back not what is happening now.

You are right about the demographic of the aging fans but it can be reversed. Keighley were in exactly that position when the Cougarmania phenomenen occurred. Without resurrecting old arguments as they have been hashed and re hashed, one of the successes was that they energised a new generation of children. They liked the Cougar experience and they came in numbers. The Cougars were sending dozens of buses full of kids to Wembley to watch GB.They organised school visits by players and mascots. They had a cougar classroom at the ground bringing kids and teachers the club premises.

So it can be done. Clubs can reconnect with both older and new members of the fan base. It is a great pity that for whatever reason and here we can agree to disagree, the club could not sustain it s momentum. If it had, I am confident there would be a decent sized demographically young body of support for the Cougars to this day.

It is to be hoped that the feeder clubs use the SL clubs just as they are being used by them. They should take their players, gain onfield success ,grow their crowds, stabilise their club and then tell the SL clubs they wish to withdraw from the arrangements and become indpendent again. If they remain feeder clubs for a long time, I agree with the other posters on here they will fade and die

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you are right about the demographic of the aging fans but it can be reversed. Keighley were in exactly that position when the Cougarmania phenomenen occurred. they energised a new generation of children. They liked the Cougar experience and they came in numbers. The Cougars were sending dozens of buses full of kids to Wembley to watch GB.They organised school visits by players and mascots. They had a cougar classroom at the ground bringing kids and teachers the club premises.

So it can be done.

No it can’t. Cougarmania raised the expectations of the fans who thought Keighley were heading for a long life in the top division. Instead they were heading for financial meltdown because they could not back those expectations up.

You yourself said they could because there was someone rich waiting in the wings, but we have seen how SL clubs on here are being berated for only being SL clubs because there’s a rich man propping it all up.

More to the point you yourself said that the Cougars were stuffed by Mo and Bradford Bulls who “stole Cougarmania” for themselves. The record is clear that they made a success of it and they backed it up taking crowds to 15,000.

But where did it end. As you yourself said it ended in a “basket case” of a club.

Cougarmania failed and so did Bullmania. Other clubs copied the “mania” thing too but today that has all gone because it won’t wash anymore and it won’t work. The kids of today are different to the kids of 20 years ago, living in a different age.

I was a kid once and me and several mates found it great to leave our boring council houses and go follow a failing second division club. I have kids now and my lad and his mates are happy to go watch Superleague RL, but anything less and they can find a dozen exciting things to do than watch a second rate team with a bunch of old fogies.

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It is to be hoped that the feeder clubs use the SL clubs just as they are being used by them. They should take their players, gain onfield success ,grow their crowds, stabilise their club and then tell the SL clubs they wish to withdraw from the arrangements and become indpendent again. If they remain feeder clubs for a long time, I agree with the other posters on here they will fade and die

How will clubs like Oldham "grow their crowds" acting as a feeder club? The idea is turning the fans off if you have not noticed?? How many clubs in the championship can "gain success" there's only room for 2 or 3 to do this?? What happens when the feeder club breaks free on this success and then loses the access to the very players that took them there in the first place???

None of this makes an ounce of sense. It still perpetuates the myth that our championship clubs can grow to success in leagues that are heavily underfunded and do not attract much support or TV money.

What has happened in the last 20 years is that the big clubs have got bigger, attracted more fans, attracted TV money and below them the top amateur clubs (like Warriors, Milford, Stanningley etc) have attracted support, created sustainable facilities and are the lifeblood and roots of the game.

I'm afraid the Championship clubs of old are facing redundancy, unless the RFL can find work for them. They have found them jobs as feeder clubs.

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I'm afraid the Championship clubs of old are facing redundancy, unless the RFL can find work for them. They have found them jobs as feeder clubs.

But the coaches of Batley, Dewsbury,York etc are insisting they're not feeder clubs and never will be. Are they kidding themselves?

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We all have a right to our opinions. We all have to live with the consequences of our actions. If these "old fogies" cease to support their club ( as so many have done ) then they will have to live with the consequences.

But it's no longer 'their' club, as they see it. That's the perception, rightly or wrongly. In my opinion the writing's on the wall, the longer this arrangement goes on the more inevitable it is that CC clubs will become out and out feeder clubs. A limit of five DR players is maybe enough for year one but watch that number increase year on year until there's no restriction on numbers. I can understand the disillusionment of these people and it won't be confined to old fogies either.

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But is it a real problem if thats the case? Salford could get 6 young players already? (along with every SL club).

At the moment every SL club can take as many players out of Oldham as they want to, as it is not designated as a SL teams catchment area. If it does get designated as Salford's area then other clubs are restricted to how many they can take. As it stands scouts from Wigan etc see Oldham as an area with rich pickings.

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There isn't one, Gav. If there was that'd mean Warrington could 'ring fence' the city of Salf

See my reply to Gav's post, the link to the document is on it. Your wrong.

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the number of watehead,st annes & saddleworth kids that get signed up by super league clubs is ridiculous...

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Have to agree, but the young support want Superleague, I'd like to see them get it. I'd like to see kids in Oldham, Swinton, Rochdale and all around the M60 being taken by their dads to Barton for a dose of Devilmania!

That's just me putting the game before the clubs....

The young support only have Super League rammed down their throats thou.

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You mean like the great Oldham teams of the eighties with;

Bruce Clarke (Western Suburbs)

Stuart Raper (Cronulla}

Gary Bridge (Balmain)

Steve Wright (Feltham Rugby Union)

Mark Fairbank (Elland BARLA club)

Gary Warnecke (Wests)

Mal Graham (Wests)

Peter Walsh (Newcastle Knights)

Brian McCarthy (Cantebury Bankstown)

Tom Nadiole (Salford On Loan)

Paul Lowdnes (Warrington On Loan)

Alan McCurrie (Halifax On Loan)

Ian Birkby (York On Loan)

Steve Garner (Fulham On Loan)

Michael Parish (Wakefield On Loan)

John Ogburn (Mansfield Marksmen On Loan)

Need I go on!

Stop making stuff up to suit your argument. McCurrie was signed from Wakefield

Nadiole was of Fijian parentage and spent many seasons at the club

Parrish was signed from Hunslet

of the other English based players you listed I cannot recall them, but if by Garner you are reffering to Gartland, he is an Oldham lad.

In your other argument about Fev not being able to afford SL. You forgot to mention that if they do get in they get around 1 million pounds hand out. Now maybe that is why the Championship clubs look skint to the gravy train boys in SL.

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How about publishing & explaining the rules that will apply to these partnerships thus allowing opinions to be formed on more than assumption, deduction or blind faith. Now that would be truly radical.

What difference would explaining things make? Some people wouldn't believe it anyway and still moan. Its because they enjoy it.

In fact, I'm so fed up of the career moaners that I can't tell the difference between when they have a point or not - its all one big doom fest, always.

And to be honest, it puts me off RL and I feel like sacking it.

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What difference would explaining things make? Some people wouldn't believe it anyway and still moan. Its because they enjoy it.

In fact, I'm so fed up of the career moaners that I can't tell the difference between when they have a point or not - its all one big doom fest, always.

And to be honest, it puts me off RL and I feel like sacking it.

Noooo! Don't turn into one of them! They're like infectious moaning zombies!

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In your other argument about Fev not being able to afford SL. You forgot to mention that if they do get in they get around 1 million pounds hand out. Now maybe that is why the Championship clubs look skint to the gravy train boys in SL.

Hull.K.R. got the £1.2M a season SKY pay and leaked half a million pounds a year losses on 7,000 crowds.

Cas get 7,000 crowds and £1.2M a season from SKY and can't afford full cap and are still in dire straits.

The clubs you speak of could not even manage the 7,000 crowds......

Why do you and others simply not get it?

CC clubs turn over around £1M SL clubs turn over more than £4M SKY money does not cover the difference.

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What difference would explaining things make? Some people wouldn't believe it anyway and still moan. Its because they enjoy it.

In fact, I'm so fed up of the career moaners that I can't tell the difference between when they have a point or not - its all one big doom fest, always.

And to be honest, it puts me off RL and I feel like sacking it.

Aye.

If I'm honest, the only thing keeping me going with RL is next year's World Cup.

I live far enough away that to attend and support the game it takes real effort, both time-wise and financial - and tbh I spend a fair bit of time feeling really rather depressed about the game.

In fact, the most refreshing discussions I have about the sport of Rugby League are from non-RL fans here in Scotland who appear to really appreciate the sport. My most recent experience like this was last weekend, sat in the oldest Inn in Scotland in a tiny village called Kenmore in Perthshire, talking proudly about our sport with a bloke from just outside London and his friend from Fife. It was an entertaining and enjoyable discussion - much unlike most I have with many RL 'fans'.

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