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Salford Trouble/Salford Takeover

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Padge - However I do remember Wigan buying two of Oldham`s key men - Frank Pitchford & the greatest centre I ever saw - Alan Davies.

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Padge - However I do remember Wigan buying two of Oldham`s key men - Frank Pitchford & the greatest centre I ever saw - Alan Davies.

Just like Wigan buying Lydon and later Offiah to get Widnes out of the mire, what a benevolent club Wigan are and always have been.

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Hound we dont need £600k for 7th January. Surely the two players can be sorted with a deal of some kind and maybe the IR as well if they see there is nowt left in the pot. I am more hopeful than you and the fans are rallying - not in numbers akin to Bradford - but at least there is movement.

According to John Wilkinson at the meeting last night, we need £600,000 - £350,000 for the Wu petition - £20,000 to Anderson, £30,000 to Patten & £300,000 to HMRC. These will be the subject of the WU hearing. Our bank account is frozen and we have no assets except the players. Unless a big cash injection arrives real soon - what answer can we give to the court when they ask - "how do you intend to pay?" ... the other £250,000 is to just pay our players for the season - with no additions. Lets hope they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Forever Reds has started asking for pledges today on Facebook - about 8k pledged so far.

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Oldham's decline began as early as 1961/62 and came to a head towards the end of that decade.

At then end of the 1967/68 eason Oldham recorded a profit, the first since 1961, of £7,936, in the previous season, 66/67, they had lost £14,000. The turnaround in fortunes wasn't by actually getting more people in to watch them though, they sold several players in order to balance the books.

Oldham were in deep trouble at the start of the 68 season with attendances falling, after a game against Hunslet only drew 2,141 and receipts of £314 the Oldham board held a crisis meeting because the figures were so alarming. They even experimented with a Friday evening game against Warrington but that drew less than 2,000 spectators. Their highest attendance in the first quarter of the 68/69 season was 4,577 but that didn't help Oldham's cash crisis since the game was a Lancashire cup game which meant the receipts were split.

In the 68/69 season they lost £17,000 and had to put club captain Geoff Fletcher up for transfer at £6,000 in a desperate attempt to get in some cash. John Stringer Oldham's secretary said at the time "We don't want to lose Geoff but our financial situation leaves us no choice. We need the money" and the Chairman Ken Fisher had this to say in October 69 "You can't go on forever drawing £300 and spending £600"

So in the 50's Oldham had a few seasons as a leading light but what followed the seasons in the sun was the onset of a terminal decline.

Other clubs, most notably Bradford had problems in the 60's, however I would hardly put Oldham down as a leading light through the 60's.

With total respect to the posters and no rudeness meant at all - why are we talking about Oldham again on this thread? It is interesting and I like the Roughyeds, but surely another thread is called for this stuff?

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They were in the top 4 in only 4 years out of 20. and that was then in the golden age of our game, before motorways, bypasses, large scale modern housing developments out of town centres, universal TV ownership, large scale personal transport ownership, etc changed the sporting landscape forever.

The sporting lanscape changed and so did Rugby league.

I watched 1965-1973 and have just looked down the 1973 table.

In that table, out out of 30 clubs, I have seen live, or on TV 26 of them in the challenge cup final or a CC semi final, or in another major final.

Only Batley, Whitehaven, Huyton and Donny are clubs I did not see competing at the top.

The move to two divisions started to polarise things, and as you say player and fan mobility changed the landscape, until by the 1990's the number of clubs who had the where with all to have a spell at the top no matter how brief had seriously diminished.

It was essential to take the Superleague money, but that just polarised things even more, and as we know the number of clubs who can make a final is probably down to only seven now. That leaves about 26 clubs who will maybe NEVER get to a major final ever again.

Wishful thinking won't change that, nor will chance, and nor will heavy investment as that is now now being collectively abandoned.

All that's left on a realistic basis is the engineering of Superleague into a competitive game from top to bottom.

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With total respect to the posters and no rudeness meant at all - why are we talking about Oldham again on this thread? It is interesting and I like the Roughyeds, but surely another thread is called for this stuff?

I am merely responding to the direction the thread had taken, and showing how people have false perceptions of the past.

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Why are we talking about Oldham again on this thread? It is interesting and I like the Roughyeds, but surely another thread is called for this stuff?

IIRC Maurice Lyndsay said that the lack of adequate resources would be the death of many smaller clubs.

To save Salford and Oldham from disaster Lyndsay suggested that they merge.

They didn't and in 1997 Oldham collapsed and went into freefall.

In 2013 Salford face the same fate.

The clubs are inextricably linked through this so it's fair to introduce them to the topic.

Maybe not in the sense of "Oldham were a big club once and can be again" that does belong on another forum. The Fantasy RL forum.

Why have Salford last 15 years longer??? JW.

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IIRC Maurice Lyndsay said that the lack of adequate resources would be the death of many smaller clubs.

To save Salford and Oldham from disaster Lyndsay suggested that they merge.

They didn't and in 1997 Oldham collapsed and went into freefall.

In 2013 Salford face the same fate.

The clubs are inextricably linked through this so it's fair to introduce them to the topic.

Maybe not in the sense of "Oldham were a big club once and can be again" that does belong on another forum. The Fantasy RL forum.

Why have Salford last 15 years longer??? JW.

Fair enough - Salford may have lasted 15 years longer, but we wont make the next 20 day at the moment :lol:

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I am merely responding to the direction the thread had taken, and showing how people have false perceptions of the past.

ok- fair enough. How do you see the current situation ending up?

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ok- fair enough. How do you see the current situation ending up?

Its always difficult trying to second guess what may happen in these situations, but, more often than not the situation is resolved at the eleventh hour, usually by someone waiting in the wings to snap up the club at the lowest cost to them and just before the damage done to the club is irreparable. I certainly hope that this is the worst case scenario.

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Its always difficult trying to second guess what may happen in these situations, but, more often than not the situation is resolved at the eleventh hour, usually by someone waiting in the wings to snap up the club at the lowest cost to them and just before the damage done to the club is irreparable. I certainly hope that this is the worst case scenario.

Certainly your right as always, the eerie silence is investors not wanting to commit money. Maybe management like Mr. Khan. However if comparisons are made to bigger clubs like Bradford and Wakefield who may have been seen to have bigger fanbases, bigger junior bases and ground advantages the silence could be a long one. Potential investors will look at Mr. Wilkinsons input over the years and where that got the club, and the "business plan" that creates success on 8K crowds won't be bought IMHO, any credible investor will do their own sums. There's also the RL/SL are they bothered? could plans to reduce SL be a stumbling block. For Salford we'll all have to hope that bit stronger and harder.

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I dont know if adiminstrators can do much against a winding up order issued in court? And that is what we face in 20 days ...

The winding up order has only been presented. An Administrator will be able to buy some time to conclude a deal if that's a realistic possibility

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The winding up order has only been presented. An Administrator will be able to buy some time to conclude a deal if that's a realistic possibility

Thanks Lee - good answer.

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Did John say £300k to the IR? Surely not. I was told less than £60k so one of us wildly out.

I had a re-read of both the live twitter feeds from the meeting, which have given us a nice set of"minutes"! You are right in saying we don't owe £350k to HMRC. JW said that "we owe £350,000 (no specifics) & need £600,000 to start Super Legaue 2013. I found a part where JW stated that the debt to HMRC is "not as much as you think." - so you could be right on that figure. Have another look at the links and see what you think. I tend to get all steamed up about something and end up missing some of the facts sometimes if I am honest! :D

https://twitter.com/SalfordCityReds

https://twitter.com/iampaulmcnally?

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Did John say £300k to the IR? Surely not. I was told less than £60k so one of us wildly out.

He said "a quite small amount", he also said the two players were only owed their last pay check, and that is in the process of being paid.

Of the £600,000 needed £300,000 was for Team building.

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The most important "tweet" on the night was that the Chairman said, a settlement to the clubs problems was imminent.

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One of the bits I found surprising was the claim that the £1.5m from Peel and the Council was not the amount they owed, there was some ring-fenced for investment and a buffer. I find that staggering. Surely it would have been sensible to try and get the minimum amount to pay the debts, buying you time to get investment anyway.

Unless people are speaking like politicians again, which appears to have happened at Bradford and now Salford.

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One of the things that stands out on the twitter feed is just how bad the stadium deal is for Salford. Looks like they were bent over a table in those negotiations, whilst Sale seem to have been able to negotiate a much better deal than Salford.

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One of the things that stands out on the twitter feed is just how bad the stadium deal is for Salford. Looks like they were bent over a table in those negotiations, whilst Sale seem to have been able to negotiate a much better deal than Salford.

Yes it does seem that way. The fact we HAD to move to stay in Super League and owed the Council, meant they knew we had no option but to accept - Sale could have chosen elsewhere and have more business clout (for now) - so could negotiate better terms. Anyway if the management co at Barton have stiched us up it will come back to kick them, when we go out of existance and they lose one of their main customers ... followed shortly after by Sale leaving if they get relegated? I hope this doesn't happen for either club/

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I don't think any investor would want to come on board with debts of £4.5 million. I think the only way they will attract an investor is if they go in to administration, lose their debts and re-form as a new company. Whether they would be allowed to retain their SL licence would be up to the RFL and the SL clubs but who would want to start an investment with such a large amount of debts to manage.

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I don't think any investor would want to come on board with debts of £4.5 million. I think the only way they will attract an investor is if they go in to administration, lose their debts and re-form as a new company. Whether they would be allowed to retain their SL licence would be up to the RFL and the SL clubs but who would want to start an investment with such a large amount of debts to manage.

My understanding after Monday's meeting (please correct me if i get it wrong again :) ) is that £1.5 million is owed to salford council in the form of a loan which is/was being repaid? £350,000 is owed to HMRC / explayers / bank and £3million-ish is owed to directors, which they have agreed to write off. So I guess whenthe £250,000 needed to get going in SL 2013, any investor will need to be prepared for stumping up £600,000 and the club repaying the £1.5m loan. A big ask in a recession. If we go into admin I am sure we will be kicked out of SL - then what? I wish they would say what the plan is if we fail to find investment!

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Debts to HMRC are more dififcult to calculate, there are different ways to pay.

There are whole debts then there payments due.

Most struggling businesses have a payment plan and the smaller debt may simply be the next installment of that rather than the total owed.

I think Salford are doomed in their current guise. A new Company may be formed and the RFL may struggle to deny access to SL after Bradford.

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Debts to HMRC are more dififcult to calculate, there are different ways to pay.

There are whole debts then there payments due.

Most struggling businesses have a payment plan and the smaller debt may simply be the next installment of that rather than the total owed.

I think Salford are doomed in their current guise. A new Company may be formed and the RFL may struggle to deny access to SL after Bradford.

Whether the RFL struggle to allow access because of what happened at Bradford won't be high on the RFL's list. What will be more important is how big the shift and momentum behind a 10 or 12 team league is. Precedent won't be taken into account as the top 4 to 6 clubs will determine what will happen - they could see Bradford as bringing more cash to the top division than in the CC so thats why they proposed to 'buy' Bradford, which also game the new investors and the RFL a bit of breathing space whilst everyone took that one in.

The top 4 - 6 now seem to have such an influence on the strategy and thinking around the game as a whole. Is that good?

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