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Hornetto

Salford Trouble/Salford Takeover

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All i will say is if we went into SL tomorrow we would stay there even if P&R came back.Im very confident of our finances that once we get in SL we will stay there.But like ive said before were not ready yet.But we will be when the next licensing comes into play.

Pie in the Sky

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Pie in the Sky

You will see.Also its not my place to give figures etc. If our club wanted people to know our finances im sure they would publish them.The RFL will know how much we have when we apply for the next license.

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1. As I understand it Mr. Fulton has put in lump sums of £500K at Cas. I also note Cas have 7,000 paying fans.

Mr Campbell has managed to pop in a couple of hundred grand at Fev AFAIK. Mr. Nahaboo AFAIK has money but is yet to give significant amounts to Fev. Fev have 2,000 fans so I think Cas may have had more money.

2. Think beyond that. Is it fair to kick out the semi pro lads who won it?

Would you have less of a chance staying up if you had one year to get it right then three under licensing??

I think we would stay up with just the one season.But yeah 3 would be good but i dont agree with that idea as i think it should be one up and one down every season so if we didnt stay up with that one season we wouldnt deserve to be in SL.

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The problem is that you a driving finances down rather than working on bringing finances up.

Don't losing clubs who cannot compete and give up drive finances down?? Crowds drop and finances drop, rich men drop out?

Increase SL to 16 clubs that brings in more fans from Fev, Fax etc finances up.

Introduces more rich men, Mr, Nahaboo and Mr. Abbot - finances up.

Lower salary cap encourages Hudgell. O'Connor, Hughes, maybe even Wilko to keep putting in rather than giving up.

Finances up

Lower salary cap reduces wage spend Finances up

Forces top clubs to unload players to lower clubs more even game more interest finances up

It's a winner isn't it??

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You will see.Also its not my place to give figures etc. If our club wanted people to know our finances im sure they would publish them.The RFL will know how much we have when we apply for the next license.

Here's a figure you can give, overall who has managed the better crowds in top flight RL, Fev or Cas.

Here's a question you can answer, given that we are told that nobody from Wakefield or Cas will ever in their entire life support Fev, how are Fev going to increase their average attendance to SL levels, given that most clubs over the years have doubled their average by mopping up surrounding latent RL support. How are Fev going to double their support from their last full top flight season to match today's modern clubs doubling of attendances at the lower end, and how will they quadruple it to compete with Wigan, Leeds, Saints etc. Don't forget, nobody from the surrounding districts, so we are continually told, will ever go to 'the enemy'.

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Don't losing clubs who cannot compete and give up drive finances down?? Crowds drop and finances drop, rich men drop out?

Increase SL to 16 clubs that brings in more fans from Fev, Fax etc finances up.

Introduces more rich men, Mr, Nahaboo and Mr. Abbot - finances up.

Lower salary cap encourages Hudgell. O'Connor, Hughes, maybe even Wilko to keep putting in rather than giving up.

Finances up

Lower salary cap reduces wage spend Finances up

Forces top clubs to unload players to lower clubs more even game more interest finances up

It's a winner isn't it??

Top clubs will unload players to other sports or similar foreign sports.

The idea that if Wigan have to offload either Tomkins or Charnley but can't keep both means that suddenly Salford could afford them against other competing sports clubs outside of European SL is naive on your part to say the least.

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Here's a figure you can give, overall who has managed the better crowds in top flight RL, Fev or Cas.

Here's a question you can answer, given that we are told that nobody from Wakefield or Cas will ever in their entire life support Fev, how are Fev going to increase their average attendance to SL levels, given that most clubs over the years have doubled their average by mopping up surrounding latent RL support. How are Fev going to double their support from their last full top flight season to match today's modern clubs doubling of attendances at the lower end, and how will they quadruple it to compete with Wigan, Leeds, Saints etc. Don't forget, nobody from the surrounding districts, so we are continually told, will ever go to 'the enemy'.

What as crowds got to do with it? Can you imagine the FA saying to the champ clubs you can't get promoted because you only have 10k fans but you need 30k to get in or your ground isn't good enough or you only have 5 mil to spend on players you need 20 mil etc etc etc its people like you that kill our sport and its romance. If you win promotion no matter who you are you should go up.

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I like Featherstone and their fans, but to suggest that they're a bigger club than Castleford is utterly proposterous. I also admire the clubs ambition to get into Super League, but I'm afraid that no matter how many times they win the Championship, or how many new stands they erect, they're never going to get there. If Salford (hopefully not) go belly up, then it'll be full speed ahead for another French outfit - probably Toulouse. Featherstone just doesn't fit with the RFL's adherence to the laws of 'expansionism' - like it or not (for the record, I don't like it). In a European Super League age, where clubs have been mooted in Dublin, Barcelona and Glasgow, does anyone really believe that RL authorities are going to see a club from a tiny former pit village as the way forward for them?

Also, the top Championship clubs CAN compete with a number of SL clubs in one-off matches as we've witnessed in some recent CC ties, but there's still a massive gulf in playing quality that means the likes of Halifax, Sheffield, Leigh, Batley and Featherstone (as they are now) would get stuffed most weeks in SL.

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What as crowds got to do with it? Can you imagine the FA saying to the champ clubs you can't get promoted because you only have 10k fans but you need 30k to get in or your ground isn't good enough or you only have 5 mil to spend on players you need 20 mil etc etc etc its people like you that kill our sport and its romance. If you win promotion no matter who you are you should go up.

A soccer club cannot go from the bottom division to the PL without spending millions and millions of pounds - that is a fact. How is that deciding things on the pitch? Its just who has the richest owner.

Yeah, on the face of it, things are decided by on field affairs but the reality is they are decided by the owners wallet.

And that's ok but RL is not sport???

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Top clubs will unload players to other sports or similar foreign sports.The idea that if Wigan have to offload either Tomkins or Charnley but can't keep both means that suddenly Salford could afford them against other competing sports clubs outside of European SL is naive on your part to say the least.

Naive? Moi? :D

Just testing the obvious solution to financing Superleague so it can be a competetive elite league that pays it's way.

We see how HKR have settled on a £1.1M salary cap, no doubt Cas, Wakefield, Salford (if they survive), Bradford will be settling for something like the same. An uncompetitive rump on the bottom of Superleague weighing it down.

If Australian and Union clubs take Charnley, Tomkins and say another dozen top British talents off our clubs it takes the wages bill down. We still have a great game?

Problem solved to an extent. I'm not naive enough to not know that in solving one problem you create another one (or maybe two) but what do you think it/they would be?

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I like Featherstone and their fans, but to suggest that they're a bigger club than Castleford is utterly proposterous. I also admire the clubs ambition to get into Super League, but I'm afraid that no matter how many times they win the Championship, or how many new stands they erect, they're never going to get there. If Salford (hopefully not) go belly up, then it'll be full speed ahead for another French outfit - probably Toulouse. Featherstone just doesn't fit with the RFL's adherence to the laws of 'expansionism' - like it or not (for the record, I don't like it). In a European Super League age, where clubs have been mooted in Dublin, Barcelona and Glasgow, does anyone really believe that RL authorities are going to see a club from a tiny former pit village as the way forward for them? Also, the top Championship clubs CAN compete with a number of SL clubs in one-off matches as we've witnessed in some recent CC ties, but there's still a massive gulf in playing quality that means the likes of Halifax, Sheffield, Leigh, Batley and Featherstone (as they are now) would get stuffed most weeks in SL.

A storming post, very good.

I think this question is easily answered because we have driven down on the matter of Featherstones resources many times and yes they come up short. However I am told Mr. Nahaboo and a close friend already in place as CEO? will be financing and running a Superleague bid and will be the difference. To stay on track this is very much akin to how Salford have run as a top division club most seasons since the old days of Brian Snape.

This is how London Broncos and Huddersfield work.

The Featherstone plan will I am told see the club pay full cap which can put them above the skint rump of Superleague clubs who will be simply "surviving". And everything works two ways in life. Padge can't have it both ways. If it is true (and I think it is) old local tribal loyalties are dying out and fans will gravitate to the nearest Superleague club then if Cas cannot survive in SL and if Newmarket didn't happen who is to say it won't be Featherstone coming up smelling of roses, signing the best Calder players (who will go where the wages are) and attracting the Calder area fans (who will go where the top players and entertainment is)?

The size of the place where the ground is isn't relevant as we see with Salford.......

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Most top Championship clubs could move into SL and spend full cap for 1 maybe 2 years. The problem is sustaining that spend and increasing the player pool. quickly. Sheffield do not increase the player pool, Fev/Fax/Leigh would due to local RL culture. Fev will struggle in catchment area, Fax/Leigh have far more available support in the 1-5 mile radius. Fax/Leigh have a ground with the capacity to accomodate the gates needed to generate income, Fev don't even with the new patchwork stands.

If it came to a Fax/Leigh battle I believe Leigh are currently better placed due to the relationship with a fantastic revenue generating LSV. Both clubs have the box ticked to apply.'s

What is patently obvious is the heartland clubs of HKR/Cas/Wakey/Salford/Widnes have similar challenges and potentials to the Leigh/Fax/Fev/Oldham's barred from the elite. Either go to 2 tens or bring back P&R to allow clubs to have the dream and find their position through natures way, because in reality it is only these 9/10 clubs effected either way.

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........ I believe Leigh are currently better placed due to the relationship with a fantastic revenue generating LSV.......

Really???????

How come an ex Leigh director over on RLFans is forever banging on about how, apart from ticket sales, Leigh generate very little/no income from the LSV?

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Pie in the Sky

It may or may not be pie in the sky but what I do know for certain is that Mark Campbell is certainly no mug and neither is his CEO. It will be these two guys who determine whether or not Rovers are well enough equipped to take the step up and whatever route they decide upon will be the right one.

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What as crowds got to do with it? Can you imagine the FA saying to the champ clubs you can't get promoted because you only have 10k fans but you need 30k to get in or your ground isn't good enough or you only have 5 mil to spend on players you need 20 mil etc etc etc its people like you that kill our sport and its romance. If you win promotion no matter who you are you should go up.

To enter the football league a club needs to meet minimum stadium criteria. To then progress into the championship / premier league a club needs to meet further stadium criteria. For example, terracing is banned in the top two divisions and there are specific requirements for press and broadcast facilities, size of changing rooms, etc, etc. So yes, the FL/FA could tell a club it cannot be promoted.

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We see how HKR have settled on a £1.1M salary cap, no doubt Cas, Wakefield, Salford (if they survive), Bradford will be settling for something like the same.

Think in bradfords case the decision to spend well below salary cap has been forced on us by circumstance. Firstly the reduction in central funding for the next two years. Secondly, and more importantly, the uncertainty over the ownership and our SL status meant we couldn't start signing players until September. By this time in the season most players have their contracts for the next year sorted. We could have either signed players who weren't upto the grade just to make the numbers up and be able to say we've spent full cap, or keep the cap space available and go with a smaller squad. Personally think we've gone the right route. If someone becomes available mid season we have space to move and it gives our younger players a chance to stake a claim for starting spots, Would expect us to start recruitment very early next year for 2014 season and be spending close to full cap.

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Gaz. SKY will only allow the SL clubs to have the money, how does that make them greedy?

This is a statement I see repeated regularly but I can't recall seeing any official confirmation of it. Can anyone point me in the direction of such confirmation? If its accurate, how have the RFL been able to withold a significant proportion of Bradford's sky allocation as a fine/punishment & where is it going?

Please dont misunderstand my question as being advocacy for sharing tv money evenly, it's anything but. I'm simply interested to discover whether it is true or another 'blame Sky' urban myth.

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This is a statement I see repeated regularly but I can't recall seeing any official confirmation of it. Can anyone point me in the direction of such confirmation?

Demon says the money is for SL to share, but I take your point it seems to be for RFL to withdraw. I take it there is nothing for the championship clubs because SKY were prepared to screen their matches but not pay for them. If somewhere in the SL/SKY contract there is a clause the money can be shared beyond the SL incumbents and to the Champioship clubs I'd have guessed we'd have heard about it loud and clear from the odd chairman or two?

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Think in bradfords case the decision to spend well below salary cap (2013) has been forced on us by circumstance. Would expect us to start recruitment very early next year for 2014 season and be spending close to full cap.

Point taken and as per Mr Craiq's post he doesn't see "Bradford down amongst the dead men" and nor do I.

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What is patently obvious is the heartland clubs of HKR/Cas/Wakey/Salford/Widnes have similar challenges and potentials to the Leigh/Fax/Fev/Oldham's barred from the elite. Either go to 2 tens or bring back P&R to allow clubs to have the dream and find their position through natures way, because in reality it is only these 9/10 clubs effected either way.

I think that's a good shout myself although I'd take Wakefield out. I've stood in a 10K crowd at Belle Vue and in Newmarket one can only see those becoming more regular.

There but for the grace of a rich man goes HKR/Cas/Salford/Widnes/Leigh/Oldham/Halifax/Featherstone......

And how about London/Huddersfield too...

All clubs who would struggle in Superleague without someone rich to bankroll them.

Leaving the real Superleague of Leeds/Hull/Wigan/Warrington/Bradford/Saints/Wakefield/Catalans.

Oh how Maurice and the RFL would have wished the SL game would have made it in Paris, Gateshead, Wales Barcelona, Toulouse and London and that those smaller championship clubs had faded into a merger with their local rivals.

We may have then seen what Superleague was really meant to be rather than what it is in danger of becoming i.e. the old first division without the stars.

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I do know for certain that Mark Campbell is no mug and neither is his CEO. It will be these two guys who determine whether or not Rovers are well enough equipped to take the step up and whatever route they decide upon will be the right one.

You seem uncertain about the 2015 application going in and Mr. Nahaboo's input? Can you clarify things for us Terry?

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The Sky money is equally divided between the 14 SL clubs plus the RFL so the RFL get one fifteenth of the Sky money. Championship club Chairmen made a very poor decision some years ago to accept a one off payment of £10.8 million from Sky in order that they could seek coverage elsewhere. When that happened with Premier Sports the clubs end up with very little in the way of payment for the coverage.

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I like Featherstone and their fans, but to suggest that they're a bigger club than Castleford is utterly proposterous. I also admire the clubs ambition to get into Super League, but I'm afraid that no matter how many times they win the Championship, or how many new stands they erect, they're never going to get there. If Salford (hopefully not) go belly up, then it'll be full speed ahead for another French outfit - probably Toulouse. Featherstone just doesn't fit with the RFL's adherence to the laws of 'expansionism' - like it or not (for the record, I don't like it). In a European Super League age, where clubs have been mooted in Dublin, Barcelona and Glasgow, does anyone really believe that RL authorities are going to see a club from a tiny former pit village as the way forward for them?

Also, the top Championship clubs CAN compete with a number of SL clubs in one-off matches as we've witnessed in some recent CC ties, but there's still a massive gulf in playing quality that means the likes of Halifax, Sheffield, Leigh, Batley and Featherstone (as they are now) would get stuffed most weeks in SL.

They haven't. These are just silly internet rumours without any substance.

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You seem uncertain about the 2015 application going in and Mr. Nahaboo's input? Can you clarify things for us Terry?

I think what terry means is that mark and Craig work very hard for our club and run the club. If it wasn't for these 2 we wouldn't be in the position were in now. I think what he's trying to say is everyone thinks our application hinges on mr Nahaboo but it doesn't it hinges on mark and Craig.

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