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Futtocks

Operation Yewtree

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It puzzles me as to why people should come forward after 40 years and make such allegations if there was no truth in them, exposing themselves needlessly to the harrowing experience of cross examination in a court of law. It also puzzles me why someone like Bill Roache, who presumably at the time had women throwing themselves at him would need to rape someone. There's something very fishy about the whole thing.

There were rumours about Savile which were ignored until after his death. Were there similar rumours about Roache?

So basically, no smoke without fire right?

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So basically, no smoke without fire right?

Was funny to see in the paper this week after he was acquitted. Michelle Keegan doing a story saying sure you would get the odd pat on the bum when you met him but I didn't mind because he was such a gentleman. Bet he was pleased that came out after the case rather than before.

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 I've been wondering if the fishing trip that Yewtree is appearing to be is an attempt to dilute the Savile case and take the focus off any police involvement?

 

It's possible.  It certainly seems that the scale of collusion that appears to have been around Savile is being forgotten.

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Was funny to see in the paper this week after he was acquitted. Michelle Keegan doing a story saying sure you would get the odd pat on the bum when you met him but I didn't mind because he was such a gentleman. Bet he was pleased that came out after the case rather than before.

A pat on the backside and rape are entirely different beasts, although neither is acceptable (unless, in the case of the former, it is wanted attention obviously).

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A pat on the backside and rape are entirely different beasts, although neither is acceptable (unless, in the case of the former, it is wanted attention obviously).

I have heard feminists argue, in all seriousness, that they are essentially the same thing.

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A pat on the backside and rape are entirely different beasts, although neither is acceptable (unless, in the case of the former, it is wanted attention obviously).

Obviously, still don't think he'd of thanked her for it.

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What surprises me about all these investigations is the lack of arrests of anyone involved in the music industry. You would imagine that for every ten 14 year-old girls hanging around Coronation Street studios, there would have been 200 waiting by the stage doors and Arena entrances of famous singers and bands.

 

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I have heard feminists argue, in all seriousness, that they are essentially the same thing.

Yes, alas, so have I, which does all us females a great disservice because clearly they are nothing like each other and to suggest that they are is to seriously trivialise rape.

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Obviously, still don't think he'd of thanked her for it.

No, he probably wouldn't. 

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the worrying thing is that the real cases may get swamped by the over exaggerated  cases and then it becomes  'oh no not another one'.

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the worrying thing is that the real cases may get swamped by the over exaggerated cases and then it becomes 'oh no not another one'.

This is a real problem (potentially at least). Because there definitely will be some people out to make a few quid by making a tenouos claim. Then the genuine cases get labelled with the others like you say.

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And now let the press turn on Parliament/House Of Lord's and see what happen's and has happened in the past.

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Rape isn't just about sex though is it. It's about control and dominance.

 

I do worry about some of the indecent assaults being judged by today's attitudes rather than those at the time.

 

As for the accusers taking all this time, assaults of this nature are deeply traumatic and it takes quite something to stand up in court and be accused of lying.

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Rape isn't just about sex though is it. It's about control and dominance.

 

I have heard this theory many times. Yet I still don't necessarily understand it. Is it really true or is it just one of those things that everyone hears and assumes to be true for fear of looking a fool?

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I have heard this theory many times. Yet I still don't necessarily understand it. Is it really true or is it just one of those things that everyone hears and assumes to be true for fear of looking a fool?

The commission of rape is always a power dynamic as it is forcing someone to do something against their will. Motivation is fairly immaterial as the crime is only commited when the power of one is imposed on the other. However, not all imbalanced power dynamics are a crime.

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The commission of rape is always a power dynamic as it is forcing someone to do something against their will. Motivation is fairly immaterial as the crime is only commited when the power of one is imposed on the other. However, not all imbalanced power dynamics are a crime.

Well that makes sense and I can understand the point there.

But isn't it the case in say, a scenario where a guy gets carried away and carries on regardless of the others protests, simply about lust? Let's not forget lust is an incredibly strong emotion to control and not necessarily anything to do with control or power, merely the urge to, er.....how can I put it technically...shoot your load?

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But isn't it the case in say, a scenario where a guy gets carried away and carries on regardless of the others protests, simply about lust?

If the victim doesn't have the power to stop it, then there is a power imbalance.

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If the victim doesn't have the power to stop it, then there is a power imbalance.

Definitely.

But that doesn't mean that the prime motive was about power. It could surely just be the case of being driven by lust and only that?

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Definitely.

But that doesn't mean that the prime motive was about power. It could surely just be the case of being driven by lust and only that?

But it only becomes a crime on commission and that is ALWAYS about power because the perpetrator is making the victim do something they don't want to do because they are dominant in power relationship.

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But it only becomes a crime on commission and that is ALWAYS about power because the perpetrator is making the victim do something they don't want to do because they are dominant in power relationship.

Well let me put it like this, say a couple were having sex and halfway through the woman said 'stop it'. Now it may be the case that the man does stop but it might also be the case that the man is pretty excited and unable to control himself at that point and can't. Some people argue that it is exactly the same as someone attacking a woman by leaping out of the bushes (to use an old cliche) but the example I gave might have absolutely nothing to do with relationship dynamics or someone wanting to control another....just pure lust. I aren't necessarily disagreeing with you really, except on certain interpretations perhaps.

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Well let me put it like this, say a couple were having sex and halfway through the woman said 'stop it'. Now it may be the case that the man does stop but it might also be the case that the man is pretty excited and unable to control himself at that point and can't. Some people argue that it is exactly the same as someone attacking a woman by leaping out of the bushes (to use an old cliche) but the example I gave might have absolutely nothing to do with relationship dynamics or someone wanting to control another....just pure lust. I aren't necessarily disagreeing with you really, except on certain interpretations perhaps.

Are you seriously suggesting that a person can be so overcome by lust that they cannot be expected to stop when they have to? Do other similarly strong emotions provide the same mitigation? Is rage a defence against murder? Avarice a defence against armed bank robbery?

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Are you seriously suggesting that a person can be so overcome by lust that they cannot be expected to stop when they have to? Do other similarly strong emotions provide the same mitigation? Is rage a defence against murder? Avarice a defence against armed bank robbery?

You think they are equally comparable?

You think men are robots?

Please bear in mind that the example I gave was in mid flight so to speak and not an excuse to carry on regardless. I was just highlighting an example that some people say is the same as a pre meditated attack.

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You think they are equally comparable?

You think men are robots?

 

Rape is ALWAYS about one person dominating the other, whether that man be overcome by lust at the time or not.  A man is perfectly capable of withdrawal no matter at what stage they are asked to withdraw.  May be a bit messy and not satisfactory for the male but if the other person says no then to go ahead anyway is to rape that person. 

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Please bear in mind that the example I gave was in mid flight so to speak and not an excuse to carry on regardless. I was just highlighting an example that some people say is the same as a pre meditated attack.

If one's libido is one's guide to the extent that you have no control over it then I think a greater help is needed. Moreover, am I alone in putting more emphasis on my partners sexual pleasure than my own? If that's not the case then surely it's nothing more than assisted onanism.

Rape is rarely a pre-meditated attack btw.

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Rape is ALWAYS about one person dominating the other, whether that man be overcome by lust at the time or not. A man is perfectly capable of withdrawal no matter at what stage they are asked to withdraw. May be a bit messy and not satisfactory for the male but if the other person says no then to go ahead anyway is to rape that person.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I was trying to argue that not every situation is about power or control. I am using a quite left field example but nonetheless one that I have heard of being used. Telling someone to stop mid bonk may be extremely difficult for some people, or they may even just be plain insensitive and selfish. But IMO that does not mean it was about power or control.

I aren't arguing here, I just don't think it is a one size fits all thing. And I think a lot of it comes from the feminist 'all men are rapists' BS.

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