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Bedford Roughyed

When are the fans going to take responsibility?

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This is more or less my feelings Trojan. The way the game has gone has left me feeling detached from the game. I used to follow GB all over the place and have seen some memorable performances in an almost full wembley.Now I don't not support anything other than my club. So I too take full responsibility.... it's all my fault!

GB's Wembley games attracted: 54k, 36k, 57k and 41k.

England got 41k and 66k (WC Final).

How dare RL receive money for broadcasting rights just like any other sport around.

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I'm not convinced tbh.

In 1994 the series did well with 140k attending the Ashes series.

In 1995 there was the World Cup which got some good crowds, but if we are honest, it was due to the novelty and England's opening match win in front of a low Wembley crowd 41k (relatively speaking).

In 1996 we had a tour to NZ and lost 3 nil.

In 1997 we had the Aussies over - another poor crowd at Wembley (the same as the WC opener) to start it, but decent crowds at OT and Elland Rd for the rest of the series.

In 1998 we had the Kiwis over and lost 2 nil (drawing the 3rd test)

In 1999 we had the first Tri-Nations in Aus/NZ (GB lost both games).

We then had the 2000 WC, we know the rest. This series of poor results had a large impact on the crowds and the test scene IMHO, but it is wrong to say that there was no continuity, GB played plenty of games (for RL) but blew almost them all.

Leading into the 2000 WC, we were in a real poor run of form, the level of expectation by fans was low. This time it feels a hell of a lot better!

There's a lot in this. The relative failure of international RL is mainly down to the ongoing failure by the players.

Until we are regularly beating credible opposition (Australia) then we'll struggle to grow the high profile international game.

There's nothing wrong with Wales v Scotland in Wrexham or England putting 80 on France at Leigh, but ultimately the only game that matters in international RL in this country is GB vs Australia. And we haven't won that when it mattered in decades.

There's your problem. All the rest is tinkering around the edges.

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Isn't it possible that Offiah's presence on Pointless rather than Sinfield's was as much to do with his agent as anything?

Isn't 'Tomkins and Sinfield, Burrow and Charnley are all great players but no one much outside the RL heartlands has heard of them' an opinion with no evident evidence to support it?

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GB's Wembley games attracted: 54k, 36k, 57k and 41k.

England got 41k and 66k (WC Final).

How dare RL receive money for broadcasting rights just like any other sport around.

I'm ambivalent to those facts to be honest. My fall out with the 'greater game' in 95 remains. I don't not feel inclined to follow any other aspect of RL other than my club. It's just my thoughts. I do not expect anyone else to follow suit - tho it is evident some do.

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Personally I miss the tours from Australia and NZ when they came over for a 3 test series and played the best clubs in The country. The magic of this has been lost due to moving to the summer game and the dilution of the international game by getting rid of GB. I follow England but its not the same for me and I can understand why people don't bother.

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I'm ambivalent to those facts to be honest. My fall out with the 'greater game' in 95 remains. I don't not feel inclined to follow any other aspect of RL other than my club. It's just my thoughts. I do not expect anyone else to follow suit - tho it is evident some do.

It's your choice mate, there are plenty of people who are simply interested in their home town club, always has been and always will be.

One thing I do wonder - if Featherstone do make it into SL as is their plan - how are they going to build their club, when a hardcore of the fans hate SL, Murdoch and so on with a passion?

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Probably as I will. Keep supporting my club... aklways will.

If the game is still managed in the same was nothing else will change in my mind. I would still advocate P&R, even if my club were a fav for the drop.... and I'd still hate Murdoch... tho not necessarily all down to his involvement in RL

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Probably as I will. Keep supporting my club... aklways will.

If the game is still managed in the same was nothing else will change in my mind. I would still advocate P&R, even if my club were a fav for the drop.... and I'd still hate Murdoch... tho not necessarily all down to his involvement in RL

And what about the Test scene? If Fev are a top SL team and have 4 or 5 of their players in the Four Nations?

BTW, not s**t-stirring, I'm genuinely interested!

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This is more or less my feelings Trojan. The way the game has gone has left me feeling detached from the game. I used to follow GB all over the place and have seen some memorable performances in an almost full wembley.Now I don't not support anything other than my club. So I too take full responsibility.... it's all my fault!

sorry Robin, i can't let you take all the blame. i also watched gb at every opportunity, watched all the roses games, i was in wembley for gb v oz in 1973c (i think) when there was a crowd of about 10 thousand. but now i feel no affinity with the national side, and just like you concentrate solely on my club.

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I managed to get to two of the recent England V France games - Hull and Salford and thoroughly enjoyed them both, despite being frozen stiff. These games have helped motivate me to attend more games than ever this coming season, too.

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If you take the crowds (I am sure someone on here will have the correct figures)

1986 3 matches around 110000 (And that included MU with the old capacity)

Thats over 300000 for 7 GREAT BRITAIN matches average over 40000 a match,it would have also been at least another 10000 at both MU matches at 50/60000 + at Leeds United for the 3rd test in 1990 if the stadiums would have held more so easily there could have been another 40/50000 added to these figures meaning the average crowd would have been around 50000 + a match FACT:)))))

OK. I'll deal with 1986, because I can't be bothered to do it all.

There were just over 100,000 at the three tests. Very impressive, indeed.

However, the Old Trafford test had just over 50,000 people in attendance. The capacity of Old Trafford at the time was over 56,000.

The Elland Road test had a gate of just over 30,000. Dreadful ground though it was, it still held over 40,000 at that time.

The Central Park test had just over 20,000. The capacity at the time was about 35,000 (there were over that for the WCC game the following year).

So I make it that there were, approximately, 30,000 empty spaces at the three grounds combined in 1986.

So the fact that bigger grounds would have made an average crowd of 50,000 is a FACT, is it?

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And what about the Test scene? If Fev are a top SL team and have 4 or 5 of their players in the Four Nations?

BTW, not s**t-stirring, I'm genuinely interested!

I realise you're not strirring the brown stuff owd cock - I'd be the same Dave.... I doubt I'd change my view. We've had scottish and irish internationals in the last few years.

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I realise you're not strirring the brown stuff owd cock - I'd be the same Dave.... I doubt I'd change my view. We've had scottish and irish internationals in the last few years.

Fair enough mate, it's not a view that I particularly understand, but it is interesting!

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Fair enough mate, it's not a view that I particularly understand, but it is interesting!

Aye I know Dave. I am particularly disenchanted with the direction the game has been taken.Without wanting to open up the debate that has been done to death, I felt my club was 'frozen out' of SL and the withdrawal of P&R underpins my position to withdraw from every facet of the game barring Fev and some other championship clubs.

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OK. I'll deal with 1986, because I can't be bothered to do it all.

There were just over 100,000 at the three tests. Very impressive, indeed.

However, the Old Trafford test had just over 50,000 people in attendance. The capacity of Old Trafford at the time was over 56,000.

The Elland Road test had a gate of just over 30,000. Dreadful ground though it was, it still held over 40,000 at that time.

The Central Park test had just over 20,000. The capacity at the time was about 35,000 (there were over that for the WCC game the following year).

So I make it that there were, approximately, 30,000 empty spaces at the three grounds combined in 1986.

So the fact that bigger grounds would have made an average crowd of 50,000 is a FACT, is it?

Good post - I thought similar, however I couldn't recall what the size of the grounds were at that stage.

On the point about Internationals being an event, I genuinely believe we could arrange an Ashes series for next month and get 40k at Wembley, 40k at old Trafford and 30k+ at Leeds. I don't think we have seen a massive decline (some impact due to the horrendous performances in the late 90's as I posted earlier), more that the events just haven't been created.

One of the major things I loved about Test RL all those years ago was the chance to go to different grounds. Playing the highest Test matches (against Australia) at regular SL grounds (very good ones mind) just doesn't massively excite me.

It's no coincidence that even disappointing attendances at Wembley have been a lot higher than most heartland Test matches.

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Aye I know Dave. I am particularly disenchanted with the direction the game has been taken.Without wanting to open up the debate that has been done to death, I felt my club was 'frozen out' of SL and the withdrawal of P&R underpins my position to withdraw from every facet of the game barring Fev and some other championship clubs.

Would bringing back P&R make you interested again?

Are you not interested in the forthcoming World Cup?

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I have to say I also can't get why people have walked away from the international scene. I have no doubt the feelings are genuine and heartfelt but I just don't get it. Maybe it's a empathetic thing, I dunno.

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The one point that hasn't been mentioned in all these posts that I think may be part of the problem is the ages of fans. Reading some posts it seems to me that the older posters seem to have stopped going to as many big events as they used to. I know that is true in my case and many of my friends of a similar age (around pension or above) where we used to go to Challenge Cup Finals, internationals, etc, but not any more. My last international was the World Cup in Australia in 2008 but it was not uncommon for 6 - 10 clubs or pubs around Workington to run a weekend trip to Wembley each with 30 odd people at least on board.

The younger fans of today have so many other attractions especially during the summer months such as Creamfields, Glastonbury, and other festivals of a similar ilk where they spend their money and can't afford to go to as many big events as we used to. More younger RL fans are also soccer fans which was not the case when I was a lad, you were either a soccer fan or a RL fan in most cases. I know many younger fans who tell me they wouldn't be going to this event or that event because they will be away at another event or a stag do in some foreign clime or similar.

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Would bringing back P&R make you interested again?

Are you not interested in the forthcoming World Cup?

I'm not really interested in the world cup Dave, for reasons I've stated.If there was a return to P&R and the game was more inclusive than exclusive (I'm desperately trying to avoid another extention to that debate here), then yes I would feel a greater warmth towrds the game.I still wouldn't have sky but as stated that is as much to do with reasons away from rugby as it has to do with their influence on the game.

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I have to say I also can't get why people have walked away from the international scene. I have no doubt the feelings are genuine and heartfelt but I just don't get it. Maybe it's a empathetic thing, I dunno.

People have walked away because they don't like the RFL's decisions regarding certain areas if the game, andso no longer follow the RFL's team. There isn't that allegiance to them like their club (especially now they've changed from GB), so it doesn't bother them that they've dropped their support there.

You can't please everyone unfortunately. Stick to a decision and build from that.

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With regards to 1990 OT was sold out and Leeds United,where easily as it was 1-1 the RFL could have sold it out 2 times over.

CM

And with regards to 1986 where your FACTS were anything but?

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sorry Robin, i can't let you take all the blame. i also watched gb at every opportunity, watched all the roses games, i was in wembley for gb v oz in 1973c (i think) when there was a crowd of about 10 thousand. but now i feel no affinity with the national side, and just like you concentrate solely on my club.

Not being funny here mate but don't you think 10k at Wembley is a total disaster and were it to happen today, certain people would bang on about 'bring back GB' or something. Can you imagine what would be said today if England got 10k at Wembley?? Remember, this was the era of Eddie Waring on the BBC and RL's profile was allegedly huge. Except it doesn't look like it was really.

You have your reasons and its your choice but they are just that - your reasons, not a sign of a worse game.

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Not being funny here mate but don't you think 10k at Wembley is a total disaster and were it to happen today, certain people would bang on about 'bring back GB' or something. Can you imagine what would be said today if England got 10k at Wembley?? Remember, this was the era of Eddie Waring on the BBC and RL's profile was allegedly huge. Except it doesn't look like it was really.

You have your reasons and its your choice but they are just that - your reasons, not a sign of a worse game.

I'm quite sure Oldrover is able to answer for himself John, BUT... I can't see where he infers the game was any worse or better.As a sport, a spectacle on the pitch, we all have our preferences. THAT, at least, is purely subjective. e.g. I had a preference for competitive scrums - most prefer it as it is now!Taking a global view of the game on the pitch, I tstill think it's the best spectator sport there is and on balance, it's probably better now than it's ever been.But those aren't the reasons for my abstainace, or I believe, oldrover's!

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I'm quite sure Oldrover is able to answer for himself John, BUT... I can't see where he infers the game was any worse or better.As a sport, a spectacle on the pitch, we all have our preferences. THAT, at least, is purely subjective. e.g. I had a preference for competitive scrums - most prefer it as it is now!Taking a global view of the game on the pitch, I tstill think it's the best spectator sport there is and on balance, it's probably better now than it's ever been.But those aren't the reasons for my abstainace, or I believe, oldrover's!

Yes, fair comment, I don't suppose he actually did. I'm just used to hearing how everything was better in the past. :)

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There are that many OZ/NZ players here now the novalty for want of a better word as gone for some fans .

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