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Terry Mullaney

Rovers making headway

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No Dave Mr. K's point was that the current CC teams of Leigh, Halifax, Fev and Shefield can beat the bottom clubs in Superleague as they stand. therefore P & R can easily work.

i.e. semi pro teams on 300K are as good as professional teams on wages of £1,100,000 to £1,600,000.

i.e. there's no difference in standard.

Widnes's £300K championship team has had to be bolstered by signings which have cost money, but they have managed six wins and are still building that team up.

My point is Featherstone need three years under a license to survive and grow, not one years promotion by P & R. Widnes are a good indication of that.

Apologies then, I have lost the detail of this thread somewhat!

FWIW - I agree, I don't think P&R could just be brought back in without some restructuring and changes to the salary cap. This is the biggest challenge IMHO, as if you allow an £800k salary cap for example to allow the gap to be closed, you are risking destabilising the Championships.

I'm a fan personally of bringing back the 50% salary cap rule (up to the current limits), but I do accept that that brings competition issues with it.

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No Dave Mr. K's point was that the current CC teams of Leigh, Halifax, Fev and Shefield can beat the bottom clubs in Superleague as they stand. therefore P & R can easily work.

i.e. semi pro teams on 300K are as good as professional teams on wages of £1,100,000 to £1,600,000.

i.e. there's no difference in standard.

Widnes's £300K championship team has had to be bolstered by signings which have cost money, but they have managed six wins and are still building that team up.

My point is Featherstone need three years under a license to survive and grow, not one years promotion by P & R. Widnes are a good indication of that.

Featherstone's current team is light years ahead of the dross Widnes were putting on the field when they coasted through CC having already been given a licence. They don't need to upgrade as much as Widnes needed and still need to do to compete. I think, although its strictly my opinion, that Fev have a much better coaching team than Widnes, which also enables them to compete at SL level in a better fashion than Widnes did. Widnes may be working to a three year plan. If there was a chance they could have been relegated last season, they would have been working on a one year plan.

What plan are the Broncos working on a twenty year plan?

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I think the people of Bradford were the ones voting with their feet. How much did the Bradford attendance average drop, from 15,000 to 8,000 wasn't it? Now that's what I call voting with your feet.

2012 average attendance 11,755 fourth best supported club in Superleague,

and that was in a bad year

Superleague needs Bradford, better supported than Hull.F.C. and Wire.

Look it up don't dream it up.

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If there was a chance they could have been relegated last season, Widnes would have been working on a one year plan.

Go on then, finish the point? How does that work??

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Apologies then, I have lost the detail of this thread somewhat!

FWIW - I agree, I don't think P&R could just be brought back in without some restructuring and changes to the salary cap. This is the biggest challenge IMHO, as if you allow an £800k salary cap for example to allow the gap to be closed, you are risking destabilising the Championships.

I'm a fan personally of bringing back the 50% salary cap rule (up to the current limits), but I do accept that that brings competition issues with it.

No need to apologise to me Dave.

Mr. K and I actually agreed that if salary caps were altered then you could get financial stability in Superleague and also bring Superleague within range of several CC clubs who remain serious about entry.

I floated that idea and the only opinion I got was Padge saying that we needed ideas to generate more money not less (I think he meant that top club rich owners would be restricted in their financial input)

I take your point but the CC is becoming a league of ten feeder clubs just wanting to survive in CC and four superleague wannabees.

We suggested £1M salary cap for a 16 club SL such that when a club was promoted it could THEN afford full SL cap as SKY would provide the money in full for wages.

No real debate ever came from this though seems everyone is too entrenched after years of slinging bombs from the CC trenches to the SL trenches and back.

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The why don't you write them a cheque for £600K a year every Christmas then.

The game can't afford it and that's where you go off into ideas that RL promotion is cheap and easy.....

If I could, I would and Keighley too as they are not tied to a SL club's apron strings like Hunslet.

Salford are a SL club last time I looked so what that's got to do with promotion, I have no idea.

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If I could, I would and Keighley too as they are not tied to a SL club's apron strings like Hunslet.

Oh how very dare you, I'm cut to the quick.

Dave T's interested in our joint thoughts on manageable P & R care to engage with him?

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Barrow for Superleague AND they will survive by your reasoning.......

That Barrow team was a pretty good team and, if we are strictly talking of on field ability, I think they would have survived in SL, not that they were ever going to be given a chance.. They too pushed Wigan hard in the Cup and pulled in 7,000 to Craven Park for the game.

You know full well that I support p and r with standards and Barrow would not have passed the stadium criterium and their investor was a bit dodgy but no more than some of the clubs that did get a SL licence

Still, as we all know, all clubs are equal but some clubs are more equal than others.

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2012 average attendance 11,755 fourth best supported club in Superleague,

and that was in a bad year

Superleague needs Bradford, better supported than Hull.F.C. and Wire.

Look it up don't dream it up.

Don't forget the cheap season ticket giveaway which equated to gate receipts of an 8,000 crowd AND they went bust. Before that they were down to 8,000.

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Go on then, finish the point? How does that work??

It would have had then recruiting a little better to avoid last place. It didn't need to be huge recruitment, they were only in a relegation place on points difference. Maybe O'Connor would have opened his wallet a little more and brought in a couple of seasoned NRL recruits who could tackle.

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It didn't cause Widnes any money worries why they bedded in and tested out who was up to the job at SL level, we will probably see a very different Widnes this season.

Is that probaby an hopefully there padge, in order to back up your pro franchise views? I have seen little in terms of major player recruitment so I can't see there being a massive improvement.

Also has Robin pointed out I do believe that Widnes lost a fair bit last year. So I make it that Widnes have been treading water for at least 2 seasons now. The season before they did not really compete in the Championship and last season they were 'bedding in' no wonder the crowds aren't what they thought they would be if all you are watching for 2 years is a team that is not really competing.

Franchising - wonderful isn't it.

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Oh how very dare you, I'm cut to the quick.

Dave T's interested in our joint thoughts on manageable P & R care to engage with him?

You enunciated the proposal with which I wholeheartedly agreed. It was a long post and you should get the credit. Why don't you look it up and re post it . Maybe we will have a receptive audience this time.

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They refused to pay for the championship and then even failed to put in an offer of any kind when someone else put money on the table. Hardly an assertion, I'd say that was fairly conclusive proof.

But surely it's up to the RFL to sell them the format they see as best for the greatest number of clubs. I don't see Sky telling the Premier League, the Football League or the RFU what format it should use for it main comps. Why should RL be any different? If they force the RFL to conform to their wishes then it'sthe tail wagging the dog and time the RFL looked around for another partner.

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Gaz it's been proven to be a myth that P & R brings in the crowds. there was a long debate on here with some excellent work done which league express borrowed??? to make an definitive article on.

Another assertion. Who's proved it?

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It was far better, they got six wins, and remain in Superleague and are building the team up that bit more. I bet they'll finish above Salford 2013 so there's progress. It's likely they will finish above Castleford who are cash strapped, and HKR even.

So that could be 11th for them and who knows - play offs 2014.

I haven't a clue what your point is, you don't say, but my point is Rovers need to go up via "voted up" and not via P & R.

Wow a whole 6 wins, they are only still in SL because P&R does not exist but it did when Leigh finished bottom. 'They are building a team' are they. Apart from Kevin Brown what other major signings have they made? If you take your argument regarding some of our players being given a chance in SL but not making it, why are you so confident with Widnes's players who finished bottom of the pile.

As for them finishing above Salford. If Salford lose players because a buyer can't be found I think you are right but I reckon there are 4 championship clubs who could finish above Salford if this was the case. If Salford find a buyer and don't lose any players I can't see them finishing higher and I deffinately can't see them finishing above Cas and Hull KR. Oh and the play offs in 2014, this all depends on player recruitment, without major signings I think you are being optimistic.

My point is that in my opinion you always have double standards. Take my argument above about Leigh and Widnes and then our ex SL players against Widnes current SL players who could not cut it last year.

I appreciate your support on giving us a chance in SL through franchising. My opinion is that I would rather do this through P&R but I would watch myt team in any league and at the same time campaign against a return to P&R.

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Oh there is a big difference and if you don't see it then it explains a lot of why you don't get stuff.

What a typically partronising post. The only people on the board who really know what's going on are the two "P's" Parky and Padge. The rest of our knowledge and opinions count for nothing in the presence to these two oracles. Who are never wrong about anything.

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Another assertion. Who's proved it?

All I know is that I know my Rugby. On the odd occasion I watched SL last year I watched Widnes twice. Once versus Warrington and once versus Cas.

The games lacked any intensity and were in my opinion total dross because Widnes had nothing to play for and their players knew this.

These games tell me all I need to know about franchising, as a sporting event it was a total switch off. If Widnes were fighting relegation it would without question be a different sporting event. If this is to carry on crowds will eventually drop (even if they aren't all ready). because you will not get people paying to watch these boring non events

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What a typically partronising post. The only people on the board who really know what's going on are the two "P's" Parky and Padge. The rest of our knowledge and opinions count for nothing in the presence to these two oracles. Who are never wrong about anything.

Why stop at Parky and Padge. Don't forget JohnM's attempt to derail this thread with his 'so what' game. He appears to have given in because he hasn't answered my question has to why he does not play this pathetic game on other threads.

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All I know is that I know my Rugby. On the odd occasion I watched SL last year I watched Widnes twice. Once versus Warrington and once versus Cas.

The games lacked any intensity and were in my opinion total dross because Widnes had nothing to play for and their players knew this.

These games tell me all I need to know about franchising, as a sporting event it was a total switch off. If Widnes were fighting relegation it would without question be a different sporting event. If this is to carry on crowds will eventually drop (even if they aren't all ready). because you will not get people paying to watch these boring non events

And all of Leigh's games in SL were memorable, enthralling, exciting edge of the seat stuff where they.

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And all of Leigh's games in SL were memorable, enthralling, exciting edge of the seat stuff where they.

Not that year, Leigh were long gone early but take this last SL season, Widnes, Castleford and London fighting it out to the bitter end. There would have been some nailbiting going on if there had been a relegation place for one of them.

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Not that year, Leigh were long gone early but take this last SL season, Widnes, Castleford and London fighting it out to the bitter end. There would have been some nailbiting going on if there had been a relegation place for one of them.

Not at all, Widnes would probably have taken a different approach to their first season and Hughes probably wouldn't have gambled on young inexperienced at this level coach.

These so called relegation ding dong battles very rarely occurred, it has been shown on here before,

What about Halifax's season at the bottom of SL or Huddersfield's never ending trawl along the bottom of the table.

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Not at all, Widnes would probably have taken a different approach to their first season and Hughes probably wouldn't have gambled on young inexperienced at this level coach.

These so called relegation ding dong battles very rarely occurred, it has been shown on here before,

What about Halifax's season at the bottom of SL or Huddersfield's never ending trawl along the bottom of the table.

When, mindbogglingly they didn't get relegated for about three seasons.

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When, mindbogglingly they didn't get relegated for about three seasons.

It wasn't Huddersfield's fault that the promotion candidates didn't come up to scratch or turned promotion down.

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1. In my opinion you always have double standards.

2. I appreciate your support on giving us a chance in SL through franchising. My opinion is that I would rather do this through P&R

1. It's not a debate about me.

2. It's a pleasure, I appreciate how you would like to be promoted but I feel your board will disagree, they will want three years grace to ensure the best chance.

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Another assertion. Who's proved it?

Padge and then an article in RL World, all done with extensive factual research.

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Rugby League World - June 2017

League Express - Mon 17th July 2017