Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bedford Roughyed

And the Winner of the Golden Boot is...

344 posts in this topic

I watched the last four nations and it was the first time I had ever seen Tomkins play and it was the first thing I noticed about his game that he was weak under a high ball, either not getting there or letting it bounce or going up and completely misjudging it in the air. He is am amazing attacking player and a top talent but he has this weakness in his game. He gets away with it for the most part when playing for Wigan as they are usually dominant and he is not pressured too much but at international level, he is targetted and exposed. I get no pleasure from pointing this out as I want Tomkins and England to excel in the WC but it is what it is.

He's has I think 5 bad games under the high ball in the last 2 years but that's it, every other game he has been the most exciting player England have had this century.

The stats basically speak for themselves. I think Wigan scored around 180 tries last year, Tomkins played a major part with at least 60 of them. That's a third of their tries which is some feat.

You can pick out lots of flaws in Sinfields game which have already been pointed out. Its been statistically proven he wasn't the best player over the domestic season and the opinion is shared by Leeds Rhinos, the judges of the SL dream team and whoever picked man of steel and whoever picked world team of the year.

Btw the credibility of the award still stands, the names of the list are of such a high honour. Any RL player present and future would be honoured to receive the award and be associated with such names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Internationally Sinfield did all he could, the Aussies or Kiwis won't play, nothing he can do.

He can't play origin it isn't open to him, and we have no equivelent.

Domestically he lead his team to 2 finals, his play offs was special and with out his performances, Leeds would not have won the Super League.

On the downside, I do wish RLW & LPL would release the voting data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which wouldn't go to Sinfield as he was only oustanding towards 4 or 5 games of the latter part of the season not the full domestic season like you state.

If it was for effort in the full season then he shouldn't even come close. Tomkins had a much better and consistent season than Sir Kev.

only outstanding at the end of the season ?.

you seem o forget the start of the season when he put he aussie champions in there place and the ccup semi final in midseason in which he was outstanding as well as a lot of other games .

tomkins did indeed have a good season but when the big games came around he was not really a stand out player was he .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

only outstanding at the end of the season ?.

you seem o forget the start of the season when he put he aussie champions in there place and the ccup semi final in midseason in which he was outstanding as well as a lot of other games .

tomkins did indeed have a good season but when the big games came around he was not really a stand out player was he .

I also think the WCC effort has a bit to do with Leeds indifferent form for awhile after this fixture

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

only outstanding at the end of the season ?.

you seem o forget the start of the season when he put he aussie champions in there place and the ccup semi final in midseason in which he was outstanding as well as a lot of other games .

I haven't forgot the average regular season he had in which Tomkins put him in his place statistically and the poor Cup Final he had,

You really think the WCC was what swayed it for him, a team in the middle of their regular season at pretty much full fitness on home territory face a team in their pre season at not match fitness after a 6 month break after a 24 hour Flight to a usually wet and different climate than Australias, does this game really mean anything when 1 side play it as a trial game, play the game during both the Super League and the NRL season on Neutural territory and maybe I might take his game seriously, I was stunned when my team went over there and beat Wigan in 2011 considering it was their first game in 6 months and their head coach didn't even make the trip over to England, which in

hindsight was a horrible result for Wigan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like they crucified him last time when he was a big part in the majority of Englands tries against the Aussies?

Just a few stats for you from the SL season;

Tries: Tomkins 28 - 4 Sinfield

Try assists: Tomkins 33 - 18 Sinfield

Metres made: Tomkins 3438 - 2015 Sinfield

Clean Breaks: Tomkins 39 - 6 Sinfield

Tackle busts: Tomkins 156 - 31 Sinfield

Errors: Tomkins 28 - 27 Sinfield

It just shows Tomkins has absolutely destroyed him on nearly every stat. Sinfield only got one more fourty twenty than Tomkins in the season. The 'error prone' Tomkins has only made one error more than Sinfield.

Rightfully Tomkins was awarded Man of Steel and was selected in the dream team for oustanding performances consistently through the season. You can argue why didn't Wigan get to the GF then, well look who was sat on the sidelines during the semi versus Leeds.

here we go with stats that in the end mean nothing much. i seem to remember alker getting all sorts of stats awards via opta but all it meant was he was doing all the hard work because he had to .

do you have stats for

most times direction of the attack changed by a player

most times tempo of game changed by a player

most try scoring attacks set up by a player ( not final pass )

best goal percentage by a player

most goals

most drop goals

most metres made by kicks

most tackle assists

most metres made covering across in defence

percentage of errors per game

if not then the selective stats you quote mean nothing much at all as all your stats apart from the error count refer only to attacking play . you may note i ask for the error count to be listed on a percentage basis due to the difference in number of games played between the players you mention and can you also give the tackle counts of both players please.

as i say stats can be made to prove whatever you want them to depending which you want to use..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't forgot the average regular season he had in which Tomkins put him in his place statistically and the poor Cup Final he had,

You really think the WCC was what swayed it for him, a team in the middle of their regular season at pretty much full fitness on home territory face a team in their pre season at not match fitness after a 6 month break after a 24 hour Flight to a usually wet and different climate than Australias, does this game really mean anything when 1 side play it as a trial game, play the game during both the Super League and the NRL season on Neutural territory and maybe I might take his game seriously, I was stunned when my team went over there and beat Wigan in 2011 considering it was their first game in 6 months and their head coach didn't even make the trip over to England, which in

hindsight was a horrible result for Wigan.

oh get over it and face up to the fact that your lot wont take up the offer made by a number of english clubs and play the game in your own country because you scared of losing at home

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here we go with stats that in the end mean nothing much. i seem to remember alker getting all sorts of stats awards via opta but all it meant was he was doing all the hard work because he had to .

do you have stats for

most times direction of the attack changed by a player

most times tempo of game changed by a player

most try scoring attacks set up by a player ( not final pass )

best goal percentage by a player

most goals

most drop goals

most metres made by kicks

most tackle assists

most metres made covering across in defence

percentage of errors per game

if not then the selective stats you quote mean nothing much at all as all your stats apart from the error count refer only to attacking play . you may note i ask for the error count to be listed on a percentage basis due to the difference in number of games played between the players you mention and can you also give the tackle counts of both players please.

as i say stats can be made to prove whatever you want them to depending which you want to use..

Was going to say the same!

Its easy to pick stats that back up your opinion, such as:

Tackles - Sinfield 522, Tomkins 111

Marker Tackles - Sinfield 86, Tomkins 10

Attacking Kicks - Sinfield 123, Tomkins 30

not to mention the things you also asked such as most tries set up by a player (not assists).

For a start they play different positions and have different roles within their teams, you cant really compare like for like. Tomkins will hammer Sinfield in some stats, and it works the other way for other stats. What Sinfield has achieved this year is outstanding, and those that watch Leeds every week can see the influence he has on each and every game.

To say he was only outstanding for the last 4 or 5 games this season just proves you have no clue about how good he actually is, and you didnt see much of Leeds last year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1jordy,the WCC was played in February,2 games into the season,Manly were here for at least a week before the game,training every day.Maybe a little more research is in order for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The WCC was in February two games into the season.Manly were here for at least a week acclimatizing.You need to do more research.

i think he means his team st george who made there own choice not to come over to early but in fact came 7 days before the game and had played 3 preseason games in australia before they came over .

lets face it a preseaon game against any australian opposition would be more than enough to prepare themselves for a game against wigan in his world im sure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact is - if the Aussies were so far ahead, as they like to think, then they would wipe the floor with our teams no matter how much practice they have.

If we went and played a regular French team in pre-season we would still batter them (I saw this first hand years back when Warrington went to St Esteve).

The gap is much closer than people will admit (certainly at the top).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think he means his team st george who made there own choice not to come over to early but in fact came 7 days before the game and had played 3 preseason games in australia before they came over .

lets face it a preseaon game against any australian opposition would be more than enough to prepare themselves for a game against wigan in his world im sure

That's incorrect actually, they made the decision to not play any trial games before the World Club Challenge so that was indeed their first Trial game, they played 2 more games when they arrived back in Australia to get into Match Fitness for the start of the NRL season in early March, I still think given the circumstances Wigan should have won that game considering they've been close to the best team in England for some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh get over it and face up to the fact that your lot wont take up the offer made by a number of english clubs and play the game in your own country because you scared of losing at home

The points I made were somewhat fact in the NRL clubs having to do all the travelling in their Pre seasons for a game that gets zero media attention in Australia year by year, your point was a matter of opinion with no facts to back up your theory, try making a valid point if you disagree with my opinion, "because you scared", what are you 12 years old?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1jordy,the WCC was played in February,2 games into the season,Manly were here for at least a week before the game,training every day.Maybe a little more research is in order for you.

I'll give Leeds credit for winning the game, you can only beat whats put in front of you and they played well, but they didn't play a full strength team, A full Preseason, 2 Regular Season games and a home country advantage can make the world of difference in a football game, don't even try convincing me it doesn't, I still believe if you want this game to be taken seriously, play it on neutral territory when both teams are a at Full Fitness, I didn't watch the game this year due to Poor Handling of the coverage by I think Channel 9 or Fox Sports who don't really take the game seriously with their coverage of it and due to the lack of Media attention I completely forgot the game was even on, I really didn't care when my team won it in 2011 and I don't think Manly fans were crying over Spilt Milk when they lost it last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The points I made were somewhat fact in the NRL clubs having to do all the travelling in their Pre seasons for a game that gets zero media attention in Australia year by year, your point was a matter of opinion with no facts to back up your theory, try making a valid point if you disagree with my opinion.

In an article on Sky Sports web site 7th October, 2012, Gary Hetherington, Leeds chief executive when asked if leeds were prepared to go to Australia to play the WCC game,said that his answer was "yes." Questioned further he said " Our attitude is that we've always been prepared to go to Australia for what would be the ultimate challenge". He states they would have gone to Manley last year and are prepared to go to Melbourne this year but the Australian clubs always backed out. The only time it ever was played in Australia, Wigan put Brisbane to the sword in Queensland before 50,000 so maybe an Australian club should host a WCC to see if they can regain their honour lost so easily by Brisbane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The points I made were somewhat fact in the NRL clubs having to do all the travelling in their Pre seasons for a game that gets zero media attention in Australia year by year, your point was a matter of opinion with no facts to back up your theory, try making a valid point if you disagree with my opinion, "because you scared", what are you 12 years old?

You certainly sound like you are.Most Aussies are whingers and natural cheat's,but they must instill it into em young

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You certainly sound like you are.Most Aussies are whingers and natural cheat's,but they must instill it into em young

Yet your the one insulting another country and it's citizens, whoes the immature one here, I guess rudeness is installed into "em" young in your household, your lack of class is baffling.

Questioning whether someone is the best in the world at his chosen sport is apparently a horrible thing to do, but insulting an entire country Yep that's acceptable. (The logic fieldofclothofgold)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In an article on Sky Sports web site 7th October, 2012, Gary Hetherington, Leeds chief executive when asked if leeds were prepared to go to Australia to play the WCC game,said that his answer was "yes." Questioned further he said " Our attitude is that we've always been prepared to go to Australia for what would be the ultimate challenge". He states they would have gone to Manley last year and are prepared to go to Melbourne this year but the Australian clubs always backed out. The only time it ever was played in Australia, Wigan put Brisbane to the sword in Queensland before 50,000 so maybe an Australian club should host a WCC to see if they can regain their honour lost so easily by Brisbane.

I'd love to see it happen, I still don't see why Australian clubs would reject the offer, I've been to England a couple of times the 24 hour flight over there isn't a fun thing to do especially when you have to play a football game against highly motivated and talented football teams like a Wigan, out of curiosity, what year was this Wigan v Brisbane game played, I think it was before my time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet your the one insulting another country and it's citizens, whoes the immature one here, I guess rudeness is installed into "em" young in your household, your lack of class is baffling.

Questioning whether someone is the best in the world at his chosen sport is apparently a horrible thing to do, but insulting an entire country Yep that's acceptable. (The logic fieldofclothofgold)

Rudness is supposedly you proud national trait ,a well as deciding who should referee game and then lecturing how you want them to referee the game.Dont like it when things dont go as you want it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's played in the UK because it makes money. Same reason why the 3/4 nations was held here more often.

Neutral mid distance venue wouldn't make anywhere near the cash. Sporting/playing reasons are secondary to both teams making cash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to see it happen, I still don't see why Australian clubs would reject the offer, I've been to England a couple of times the 24 hour flight over there isn't a fun thing to do especially when you have to play a football game against highly motivated and talented football teams like a Wigan, out of curiosity, what year was this Wigan v Brisbane game played, I think it was before my time?

1994 -don't you have google in Australia?

Prize was 400,000 Dollars winner takes all so there was plenty of incentive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1994 -don't you have google in Australia?

Prize was 400,000 Dollars winner takes all so there was plenty of incentive.

I really couldn't be bothered looking it up but thanks, considering that game was played before I was even born I think a WCC in Australia is long overdue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rudness is supposedly you proud national trait ,a well as deciding who should referee game and then lecturing how you want them to referee the game.Dont like it when things dont go as you want it

I have no idea what you just said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll give Leeds credit for winning the game, you can only beat whats put in front of you and they played well, but they didn't play a full strength team, A full Preseason, 2 Regular Season games and a home country advantage can make the world of difference in a football game, don't even try convincing me it doesn't, I still believe if you want this game to be taken seriously, play it on neutral territory when both teams are a at Full Fitness, I didn't watch the game this year due to Poor Handling of the coverage by I think Channel 9 or Fox Sports who don't really take the game seriously with their coverage of it and due to the lack of Media attention I completely forgot the game was even on, I really didn't care when my team won it in 2011 and I don't think Manly fans were crying over Spilt Milk when they lost it last year.

All the things you mention for the WCC have been offered to the NRL and they have refused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's played in the UK because it makes money. Same reason why the 3/4 nations was held here more often.

Neutral mid distance venue wouldn't make anywhere near the cash. Sporting/playing reasons are secondary to both teams making cash.

Fair point, I think if the game was played in Australia and got proper attention from the media I think a fair sized crowd would show up, the All Star game which is a pre season game held here got a lot of media attention and was a huge success here even though I hate the concept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017