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flyingking

First effects of the new development system

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You come back to this red herring time and time again. The game needs and gets kids in numbers from Cumbria and some from Wales both places, as you say, despite having no SL teams but when it comes to London there is a need for A SL club in order to sustain the player production. This flies in the face of the very facts you are stating regarding player production from Wales and Cumbria and , indeed, some from the Midlands.

Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Cumbria? Go on then how many have made it and are playing today from a whole county with 100 years of history of the game being a major sport there??

Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Wales? Go on then how many have made it from a whole country and are playing SL today??

Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from the Midlands? Go on then how many have made it from the middle third of England and are playing SL today??

We've had 17 years of a free gangway.

Start putting some facts together to back your argument

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How can anyone who has the opportunity to forge a career in a country where RL has the highest sporting status be described as a victim? As Agar says," it is a fantastic opportunity as a rugby point of view as well as a lifestyle point of view for him to take up."

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Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Cumbria? Go on then how many have made it and are playing today from a whole county with 100 years of history of the game being a major sport there??

Elliot Miller- Champ

Ade Gardner-SL

Matt Gardner-Champ

Ryan Shaw-SL Academy

Craig Calvert-Champ

Peter Lupton-champ

Liam Campbell-champ

Kyle Amor-SL

Shaun Lunt-SL

Lee Mossop-SL

Oliver Wilkes-SL

Liam Harrison-Champ

Ben Harrison-SL

Graeme Mattison-Champ

Brad Singleton-SL

Ewan Dowes-Champ

Andrew Dawson-Champ

Countless more young cumbrians in sl academies at the moment, couple of class SL players there! Cumbria doesn't do to bad, considering that the population of the player pool is less than a quarter the size of Leeds on its own.

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Elliot Miller- Champ

Ade Gardner-SL

Matt Gardner-Champ

Ryan Shaw-SL Academy

Craig Calvert-Champ

Peter Lupton-champ

Liam Campbell-champ

Kyle Amor-SL

Shaun Lunt-SL

Lee Mossop-SL

Oliver Wilkes-SL

Liam Harrison-Champ

Ben Harrison-SL

Graeme Mattison-Champ

Brad Singleton-SL

Ewan Dowes-Champ

Andrew Dawson-Champ

Countless more young cumbrians in sl academies at the moment, couple of class SL players there! Cumbria doesn't do to bad, considering the the population of the player pool is less than a quarter the size of Leeds on its own.

1 per year

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1 per year

something like that. proberbly the 3 best or well known players Mossop, Amor and Lunt all came through the west cumbria academy (i think) when it was running.

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Your a highly knowledgeable guy.

Since Gary Hetherington led the way and announced Leeds would produce their own players something like 12 years ago how many lads a year do you think made it through the Leeds system to be regular top class pro's? i.e the best system.

well at leeds i would guess the average would be 2 to 3 per season but of course they dont all stay at leeds as can be seen by the likes of diskin,walker and mathers who of course now play for other clubs. last season only stevie ward stepped up from the academy at least on a regular basis although mcshane did move to widnes for the season as a regular first teamer there .

the coming season i would expect to see around 3 young leeds players push there way into the super league although one of them will of course be loaned out to wakefield to achive this . but liam hood and jordan baldwinson i recon will get some game time this year.

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1 per year

Add Brett Carter and Brett Phillips who played for Scotland recently. That list is also current players only disregarding the others from previous years such as Rob Purdham et al who are no longer playing. the above isn,t a bad team - should be used in some sort of representative capacity, like playing England Knights.

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Add Brett Carter and Brett Phillips who played for Scotland recently. That list is also current players only disregarding the others from previous years such as Rob Purdham et al who are no longer playing. the above isn,t a bad team - should be used in some sort of representative capacity, like playing England Knights.

I was being generous, the original question was SL players, adding a couple more Championship players doesn't make a lot of difference.

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So those who are good enough to play international RL don't count? Nor do those that have been at SL academies? e.g Miller. Lupton was at London and Crusaders as well.

Don't think you are being generous at all - deliberately classing a current playing rosta of 19 players as the whole Cumbrian production line in 17 years of SL isn't being generous IMO.

(Can't insert a smiley to this post btw)

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So those who are good enough to play international RL don't count? Nor do those that have been at SL academies? e.g Miller. Lupton was at London and Crusaders as well.

Don't think you are being generous at all - deliberately classing a current playing rosta of 19 players as the whole Cumbrian production line in 17 years of SL isn't being generous IMO.

(Can't insert a smiley to this post btw)

So those who are good enough to play international RL don't count? Nor do those that have been at SL academies? e.g Miller. Lupton was at London and Crusaders as well.

Don't think you are being generous at all - deliberately classing a current playing rosta of 19 players as the whole Cumbrian production line in 17 years of SL isn't being generous IMO.

(Can't insert a smiley to this post btw)

Go back to the original question asked, I didn't ask it, the list provided as an answer to that question included a lot of none SL professional players. The question wasn't about England 'A' teamers or Scottish internationals. If the asker of the original question wants to re-phrase it then that is up to him. He was fairly specific though.

So my 1 per year was being generous as per the original question.

Have a smiley on me :D

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So those who are good enough to play international RL don't count? Nor do those that have been at SL academies? e.g Miller. Lupton was at London and Crusaders as well.

Don't think you are being generous at all - deliberately classing a current playing rosta of 19 players as the whole Cumbrian production line in 17 years of SL isn't being generous IMO.

(Can't insert a smiley to this post btw)

All of them cumbrian players apart from ,dawson, calvert, mattinson and liam harrison have played at super league level or have been part of super league academies.

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talk of wastage is very over the top as most of those who do not make it with a professional team tend to join local community clubs as we are now supposed to call them.

as someone who watches a lot of local rugby league in the leeds area nearly every week i see young players who have not made the grade at pro clubs playing for there local teams such as east leeds or hunslet warriors ect

Is that a role for the pro clubs ? Is providing better quality players for the amateur game something that they should pay for ?

At community club level, players play for their own amusement. It doesn't matter if they're any good - as long as they enjoy themselves.

However - on a related point - there is an argument that the $uperleague Academy sides produce enough players to fill up spare recruitment places for CC and CC1 sides. I'd be interested to have some stats on how many players are recruited from $uperleague rejects and how many come from CC development - in the few remaining instances where they actually have one, obviously.

That is, of course, notwithstanding my point that ambitious CC sides should be allowed to have development teams so that they can make the step up to $uperleague, if invited to do so.

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All of them cumbrian players apart from ,dawson, calvert, mattinson and liam harrison have played at super league level or have been part of super league academies.

Being in an SL academy isn't playing at SL level, its playing at, well erm, academy level. I refer you to the original question posed by Parky.

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Padge, still can't see how you can equate a current list of Cumbrian players, most of whom have been at SL clubs to the sum total of 17 years of development during the SL timeframe but hey-ho.

The conversion ratio of kids from Cumbria to top level players does need looking at. Recently, a number of the community clubs representaive teams and squads have included a good proportion of Cumbrian players. For example, 11 out of 28 recently named squad for the BARLA 2013 tour of Australia are from Cumbria. How does that talent pool get nutured and developed properly?

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1 per year

The question was how many Cumbrian lads have made it into current Superleague first seventeens.

The answer is much less than one per year

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Elliot Miller- Champ

Ade Gardner-SL

Matt Gardner-Champ

Ryan Shaw-SL Academy

Craig Calvert-Champ

Peter Lupton-champ

Liam Campbell-champ

Kyle Amor-SL

Shaun Lunt-SL

Lee Mossop-SL

Oliver Wilkes-SL

Liam Harrison-Champ

Ben Harrison-SL

Graeme Mattison-Champ

Brad Singleton-SL

Ewan Dowes-Champ

Andrew Dawson-Champ

Countless more young cumbrians in sl academies at the moment, couple of class SL players there! Cumbria doesn't do to bad, considering that the population of the player pool is less than a quarter the size of Leeds on its own.

You have only given me six actual Superleague first XV11 players and you have also had to add in Barrow lads to get it to six.

Pontefract is a bigger hot bed of SL professionals than the whole of Cumbria.

Any idea why this may be?

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The question was how many Cumbrian lads have made it into current Superleague first seventeens.

The answer is much less than one per year

well there is 10 on that list of cumbrian players above that have played super league, im sure there is alot more from the past 17 years

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Padge, still can't see how you can equate a current list of Cumbrian players, most of whom have been at SL clubs to the sum total of 17 years of development during the SL timeframe but hey-ho.

The conversion ratio of kids from Cumbria to top level players does need looking at. Recently, a number of the community clubs representaive teams and squads have included a good proportion of Cumbrian players. For example, 11 out of 28 recently named squad for the BARLA 2013 tour of Australia are from Cumbria. How does that talent pool get nutured and developed properly?

Oh FFS, Parky asked how many Cumbrian youngsters had been converted to SL level playing pros. A list of 17 was provided, some of which had never been at an SL club and others who had merely been at SL academies.

I ignored the fact that many had never played at SL level and offered the figure of 1 per year (without comment).

Now if Parky meant how many had been signed by SL clubs that's for him to clarify, however if that's what he meant we are still short of 1/year

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im sure there is alot more from the past 17 years

Well list them then, and settle the bloody argument.

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11 out of 28 recently named squad for the BARLA 2013 tour of Australia are from Cumbria. How does that talent pool get nutured and developed properly?

By playing at the highest level they can which may be by going on tour to Australia??

Do we then expect the 11 lads to end up in the first teams of SL clubs in the next few years??

Also why if these are great young RL players are they not at academies??

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well there is 10 on that list of cumbrian players above that have played super league, im sure there is alot more from the past 17 years

13 British Superleague clubs need 221 professional players for their starting line ups of 17 players.

Out of the 221 players who will start SL this year, how many will be from west Cumbria and how many from Barrow, two "hotbeds" of the game for over 100 years?

The answer has already been pointed at but avoided.

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Well list them then, and settle the bloody argument.

Ade gardner

Matt gardner

Peter lupton

liam campbell(wakey)

Amor

Lunt

Mossop

Wilkes

Harrison

Dowes

Singleton

They have all played competetive superleague games 11 of them

and that is the most recent list of players, of the other 17 sl seasons im sure there would have been 6 more cumbrians that have played sl, there fore makeing more than 1 per season!

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13 British Superleague clubs need 221 professional players for their starting line ups of 17 players.

Out of the 221 players who will start SL this year, how many will be from west Cumbria and how many from Barrow, two "hotbeds" of the game for over 100 years?

Is it six ? :mellow:

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Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Cumbria? Go on then how many have made it and are playing today from a whole county with 100 years of history of the game being a major sport there??

Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Wales? Go on then how many have made it from a whole country and are playing SL today??

Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from the Midlands? Go on then how many have made it from the middle third of England and are playing SL today??

We've had 17 years of a free gangway.

Start putting some facts together to back your argument

" If the north wasn't desperately in need of kids from Cumbria and Wales " is a direct quote from your post. If you don't believe it, don't post it.

On the midlands, there was recently an article on a kid, I think it was from Telford, who signed for a SL academy and several from Northampton and Derbyshire have been signed as well as a few from Ireland ( Saints) and Scotland ( Hull KR).

How many times does it need repeating that the juniors being produced in London are mainly from the South East ( Greenwich, London Storm ) or the North East ( Haringay, London Skolars juniors ) community clubs and are about as far away from Twickenham as Leeds is from Hull, nothing to do with the Broncos. If the Broncos did not exist. these kids would be snapped up by other SL teams since , as you say, the talent base is so stretched.

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So those who are good enough to play international RL don't count? Nor do those that have been at SL academies? e.g Miller. Lupton was at London and Crusaders as well.

Don't think you are being generous at all - deliberately classing a current playing rosta of 19 players as the whole Cumbrian production line in 17 years of SL isn't being generous IMO.

(Can't insert a smiley to this post btw)

Thank you for producing that list in reply to Parksider's aggressive challenge on the subject. As you say, the population base of West Cumbria is very small to have produced all those players and others who have now retired and all without A SL club anywhere near.

In the meantime, the presence of a SL club in London, with a population in excess of 8,000,000, has produced maybe 10 SL players :D . Game, set and match, I think.

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