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flyingking

First effects of the new development system

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You have only given me six actual Superleague first XV11 players and you have also had to add in Barrow lads to get it to six.

Pontefract is a bigger hot bed of SL professionals than the whole of Cumbria.

Any idea why this may be?

It must be because of the Pontefract SL team. :D

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By playing at the highest level they can which may be by going on tour to Australia??

Do we then expect the 11 lads to end up in the first teams of SL clubs in the next few years??

Also why if these are great young RL players are they not at academies??

I bet most will be or would have been before they disbanded them.

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Is that a role for the pro clubs ? Is providing better quality players for the amateur game something that they should pay for ?

At community club level, players play for their own amusement. It doesn't matter if they're any good - as long as they enjoy themselves.

However - on a related point - there is an argument that the $uperleague Academy sides produce enough players to fill up spare recruitment places for CC and CC1 sides. I'd be interested to have some stats on how many players are recruited from $uperleague rejects and how many come from CC development - in the few remaining instances where they actually have one, obviously.

That is, of course, notwithstanding my point that ambitious CC sides should be allowed to have development teams so that they can make the step up to $uperleague, if invited to do so.

the top community clubs do not play just for there own amusment and indeed some of them have playes who could more than hold there own at championship level but due to work commitments find it hard to meet the training/playing time scales imposed at a championhip club . just look at the teams in the national leagues many of who draw bigger crowds than championship one clubs and it becomes obvious there not just social sides.

anyway i do regard it as part of the remit of a profesional side to improve the skills and standards within there own service areas which leeds do not only at school and junior level but at open age as well through regular training sessions with clubs and get togetherswith coaches of community clubs within the area . also the fact as i have statd is you will never get every academy player develping enough to become a proffesional but you ccould not run a team with only 3 or 4 players .

dont have the stats for academy players now in the championship but from what i have seen/read it would apear that most championship clubs have at least 4 or 5 players who have been part of super league academies at some point .

as for your final point featherstone, sheffield and keighley have good development sides who have provided there clubs with a good number of players in recent years but the fact is almost any junior will sign for a super league club if they can not least because they see it as a higher level and they will et better levels of coaching and most likely a better signing on fee thats just human nature and dont we all want to aim as high as we can

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the top community clubs do not play just for there own amusment and indeed some of them have playes who could more than hold there own at championship level ............

Whoa !! Hold it there ! What do they play for, then ? :huh:

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Whoa !! Hold it there ! What do they play for, then ? :huh:

pride and love of the game

. two things that dont always revolve around money . and as i stated theres not really a lot of money to be earned playing in the championship. say if a player has a good job that involves shift work then he would find it hard to commit to the training times demanded by a championship club but would still have a love for the game and take pride in his preformances on the pitch.

just go to the top amature clubs and ask players for there thoughts on the matter i can tell you theres not a player at the east leeds club that does not want to win and play there best at all times the same goes for most clubs but they do have to earn a living as well

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pride and love of the game

. two things that dont always revolve around money . and as i stated theres not really a lot of money to be earned playing in the championship. say if a player has a good job that involves shift work then he would find it hard to commit to the training times demanded by a championship club but would still have a love for the game and take pride in his preformances on the pitch.

just go to the top amature clubs and ask players for there thoughts on the matter i can tell you theres not a player at the east leeds club that does not want to win and play there best at all times the same goes for most clubs but they do have to earn a living as well

Right - so for their own amusement at the end of the day. Of course they want to win - it's more fun. On the other hand, if East Leeds win, the other team loses. For the purposes of the point I was making, does it matter who wins, or how good the players are ? No.

If they didn't want to play, they wouldn't do it. Once they stop enjoying playing, they'll stop playing.

And we're drifting away from the point of who should pay for developing amateur players. If anyone.

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Right - so for their own amusement at the end of the day. Of course they want to win - it's more fun. On the other hand, if East Leeds win, the other team loses. For the purposes of the point I was making, does it matter who wins, or how good the players are ? No.

If they didn't want to play, they wouldn't do it. Once they stop enjoying playing, they'll stop playing.

And we're drifting away from the point of who should pay for developing amateur players. If anyone.

is it for amusement or fittness and of course theres medals at stake and the chance to play for your county or country the difference is you dont get paid .

do all those joggers and those who go to the over priced fittness centres only do that for there own amusement ? or to maintain a health life by the way.

although a number of clubs do have expences lists .

as for stopping playing when they stop enjoying it is that not what even top profesionals do but they call it retirement .

now back to the central point on paying for player devlopment it should be a mix of the clubs themselves paying but they should be helped by both the rfl and the professional clubs because most clubs these days run junior teams and in the main they would fold without the open age club there with supporting them so the two are interlinked and without those junior clubs we dont have the next generation of players or indeed spectators

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Well OK - we obviously define the phrase "for their own amusement" in different ways. I dunno - if I wanted to get fit, I'm not sure I'd choose amateur Rugby League. Could have quite the opposite effect.

Nevertheless - I take your point.

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Ade gardner

Matt gardner

Peter lupton

liam campbell(wakey)

Amor

Lunt

Mossop

Wilkes

Harrison

Dowes

Singleton

They have all played competetive superleague games 11 of them

and that is the most recent list of players, of the other 17 sl seasons im sure there would have been 6 more cumbrians that have played sl, there fore makeing more than 1 per season!

Add james donaldson, gary broadbent, rob purdham, anthony blackwood, gary chambers

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Well OK - we obviously define the phrase "for their own amusement" in different ways. I dunno - if I wanted to get fit, I'm not sure I'd choose amateur Rugby League. Could have quite the opposite effect.

Nevertheless - I take your point.

not a prob you have certainly come up with some good points

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Add james donaldson, gary broadbent, rob purdham, anthony blackwood

uncle tom cobbley and all .

theres been plenty of cumbrians over the years do we need a counting game over it .

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uncle tom cobbley and all .

theres been plenty of cumbrians over the years do we need a counting game over it .

im just trying to prove a point, can you suggest any other way i do it?

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im just trying to prove a point, can you suggest any other way i do it?

the point is proved .

there have been many cumbrians in the league what does it matter what the percentage is but if you want to get into populations of areas and adjust that to numbers of players then feel free but you are getting drawn a never ending spat i fear .

should i point out that if you keep on trying to prove your point then at some stage sombody will ask you to define cumbrian and then point out barrow as not been true cumbrian and that will start another long list of players

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I'm just trying to prove a point, can you suggest any other way i do it?

And I'm grateful for you doing this, and there is no question of a spat.

Again I'm talking about regular first team SL players so such as Brad Singleton doesn't apply. One game I understand? I'm not interested in arguing about how players qualify as such though the general number gives an idea of how productive Cumbria is for Super league.

Yes Griff there's about six Cumbrians in SL first XV11's now and Shun's given us a few blasts from the past. Chambers, Dowes, Broadbent, Lupton, so we may conclude Cumbria/Barrow produces a quality SL regular player at a rate of something approaching one a year but not quite that.

It's good to have facts.

It gives us a fair measure

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There have been many cumbrians in the league what does it matter what the percentage is......

I think it matters to look at how Superleague get's it's players. Professional Players, Paying fans and Directors/Sponsors with money are important assets to the game.

It's always important to look at how any business aquires it's assets and at what cost/benefit.

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Does SL get kids to full time first team pro's from Cumbria? Go on then how many have made it and are playing today from a whole county with 100 years of history of the game being a major sport there??

Start putting some facts together to back your argument

Does giving false information add any strength to your argument?

Workington formed in 1945 (67 years ago) and Whitehaven formed in 1948 (64 years ago) does not in any way become 100 years of being the major sport here. If by some chance you have included Barrow (formed in 1901) then you should have noted that Barrow and the Furness area did not become part of Cumbria until 1974.

London in its many guises has been going for 32 years (Fulham formed in 1980) and how many players have they brought through to SL full-time first team players? Perhaps a better means of looking at the talent in west Cumbria is to see that last season Workington had 25 Cumbrian born players and Whitehaven had 16 Cumbrian born players in their squads at semi-professional level.

You also need to add in to the equation that if a young lad has a good job in west Cumbria and plays semi-pro then he would need a very good offer from a SL club to give up a steady income for a move away from the area to a SL club.

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I think it matters to look at how Superleague get's it's players. Professional Players, Paying fans and Directors/Sponsors with money are important assets to the game.

It's always important to look at how any business aquires it's assets and at what cost/benefit.

so can we have a breakdown of how many players have come from bradford or hull as neither aeem to have produced as many as would be expected for areas with super league teams and thus more investment

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Workington formed in 1945 (67 years ago) and Whitehaven formed in 1948 (64 years ago) does not in any way become 100 years of being the major sport here.

And no players ever came from Cumberland before 1945 ? I find that difficult to believe ........

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And no players ever came from Cumberland before 1945 ? I find that difficult to believe ........

Many, many did and James <Lomas, one of the all time greats was one of them. I believe Cumberland as was, with no professional club in the county prior to 1945 used to win as a county against Yorkshire and Lancashire fairly often in the county championship which was considered a big competition back then.

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And no players ever came from Cumberland before 1945 ? I find that difficult to believe ........

That was not the point that was being made. The point is that it was not a major sport here for 100 years. Prior to Workington's entry into the professional game it was "amateur" RL here.

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That was not the point that was being made. The point is that it was not a major sport here for 100 years. Prior to Workington's entry into the professional game it was "amateur" RL here.

"Amateur" does not mean it was not "major".

Rugby Union was "amateur" (well, Dudley Wood said it was) for many years. You'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't "major".

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Many, many did and James Lomas, one of the all time greats was one of them. I believe Cumberland as was, with no professional club in the county prior to 1945 used to win as a county against Yorkshire and Lancashire fairly often in the county championship which was considered a big competition back then.

Exactly.

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"Amateur" does not mean it was not "major".

Rugby Union was "amateur" (well, Dudley Wood said it was) for many years. You'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't "major".

Rugby Union was not major until recently. After the great split there numbers were decimated and they never recovered until after the 1920s. The club game was very minor with the famous one man and his dog attendances and such as Saracens playing on open fields.

The international game was decent but they only had the five nations and an occasional touring team from NZ or SA. The Australians were very very weak. Even then in the 1930 s they expelled France for, wait for it, professionalism, which enabled French RL to take off to the point where it was the major Rugby code in the country at the outbreak of WW11 leading to the infamous and treasonable dance with the devil of the Vichy annexation just to save RUs neck.

Post war the boom in RL attendances eclipsed RUs club game to some tune.

It was the 1995 move to professionalism and the injection of major capital from well heeled entrepeneurs which finally propelled RU to major status. So RU has been major for less than 20 years. Even now it only encompasses half the country.

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"Amateur" does not mean it was not "major".

Rugby Union was "amateur" (well, Dudley Wood said it was) for many years. You'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't "major".

Take away Workington and Whitehaven and the game here in Cumbria was played amongst the villages. Now no-one with any common sense could possibly call that "major". I don't think many matches from those days got reported in the national press!!!!!!

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