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flyingking

First effects of the new development system

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so that is only one more than current cumbrian super league players, in fact ill call it equal, 7 each because id count singleton as a current sl XVII player as i reckon he will feature a lot for wakey this year, so thats not bad for a county with no sl team or academy?

It's comparatively good, I'd agree.

But any Cumbria SL side would have to do what ten other SL clubs do to get a competitive side together and that is to import half a dozen overseas players.

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So Rugby league started in Cumbria post second world war then?

Cumberland didn't produce great players pre-war and give Yorkshire and Lancashire a hard time then?

I'll accept a brief apology for the false information crack.

Here we go again with you changing the argument when it suits. Your statement that I initially referred to was that rugby league was a major sport in Cumbria for 100 years. I put forward facts to show that it wasn't a major sport until after the war when we started up two semi-professional clubs. I have never said that we couldn't produce great players because, clearly, we did but they, in the main, only achieved that greatness when they moved away from the area.

As I have previously said the game prior to 1945 and 1948 was only played by amateurs amongst village teams which you chose to ignore. If that is your definition of a major sport then so be it.

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It's comparatively good, I'd agree.

But any Cumbria SL side would have to do what ten other SL clubs do to get a competitive side together and that is to import half a dozen overseas players.

overseas players is not just a super league problem though, it a problem in soccer, and its proberbly the same in union. But that is for a different thread.

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Your statement that I initially referred to was that rugby league was a major sport in Cumbria for 100 years. I put forward facts to show that it wasn't a major sport until after the war

As I have previously said the game prior to 1945 and 1948 was only played by amateurs amongst village teams which you chose to ignore.

Of course I chose to ignore it, the game was widely played in the county as you admit, there were major talents as you know and big crowds for the county championship games.

Cumberland won the championship eight times before the war seeing off Yorkshire and Lancashire. They were also awarded tour games against Australia and New Zealand at venues like Maryport, Workington and whitehaven. If anyone is contriving to get out of getting it wrong it's you.

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Overseas players is not just a super league problem though, it's a problem in soccer,

It's not a problem in either code is it??

The overseas players are a symptom of the problem British RL has of only being able to develop a very limited number of quality Rugby league professionals.

No top professional players come from Batley, Rochdale and Keighley, only the odd one comes from from Doncaster Leigh and York. Only a couple from Wakefield and widnes. Wakefield rely on overseas players and whoever they can get from wherever, and Widnes rely on Wigan and overseas players for a team and that's a shocker :O

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It's not a problem in either code is it??

The overseas players are a symptom of the problem British RL has of only being able to develop a very limited number of quality Rugby league professionals

It's not a problem in either code is it??

I would of thought it was a problem if a team is heavily relaint on overseas players, as you stated in your previous post, would you not?

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I would of thought it was a problem if a team is heavily relaint on overseas players, as you stated in your previous post, would you not?

Yes, it's a problem but the overseas players themselves are not, they bring skill, character and entertainment to the game, would you want to see Pat Richards, Willi Manu and Tony Puletua sent home?.

The biggest reliance is at London Broncos so this will give the "shut them down" brigade ammunition for their prejudices. All M62 clubs of course excused. Les Catalans also continue to rely heavily.

The second biggest excess (possibly the biggest if you look at it another way) is in Hull where a team of 13 overseas players enable this so called hotbed of talent to run two average SL teams.

As I say Widnes hardly have a Widnes lad in their side and nor does anyone else apart from Myler at Wire, so it's not as if they've all left the town when the club were in the championship to get SL contracts elsewhere. This is deeply disturbing as I grew up with Widnes turning out great RL players for 30 years.

And when you look at St. Helens you see seven overseas stars and only four homegrown lads, so alarm bells may be ringing there. Warrington boast a big improvement in local born stars but only three local lad are in the seventeen starters. Boasts and reality are different things.

The truth for "Lancashire" is a large dearth of home grown talent and when you look at the inadequate gates at Salford and widnes it's hard not to conclude the old county is only big enough in resources to support three professional sides. Cheshire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside. Shades of Mo :D

If there is a bright side it's down "Calder" way where Fev/Pontefract/Cas churn out 21 current top level SL players between them and could find 11,000 fans between them to support a club whose vibrancy on the playing front could rival Leeds and Wigan who have the most prolific player production lines and the least reliance on overseas stars. At the moment Fev plan to go it alone as Cas sink because RL people think with their hearts not their heads and we won't change that.

There's an argument that it doesn't matter if a professional RL club doesn't sign most of it's players locally if they don't produce enough, but it matters like hell when only two clubs can put a home grown 17 on the pitch. This is why the so called stupid & inept RFL placed youth development at the heart of the Licensing system, this is why they tried so hard to get SL clubs in new places.

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The big problem around Leigh is in schools, lack of RL PE teachers and the quality of coaching as a result. My lads school got to the Wigan schools final without ever having a training session and used a borrowed kit. Bedford and StMary's were always big RL schools who now produce very little - is it due to Leigh being away from the big time for too long and the domination of soccer with so many clubs within 15 miles ?

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Add james donaldson, gary broadbent, rob purdham, anthony blackwood, gary chambers

Howard Hill

Gregg McNally

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Anyone know where Kyle Wood was from?

Half Acres, Castleford.

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Half Acres, Castleford.

Blimey, another one.

I declare the Cas/Ponte/Fev area the playing heart of Rugby League.

Please don't tell the Fev lot that will be construed as an attack on their club.

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The big problem around Leigh is in schools, lack of RL PE teachers and the quality of coaching as a result. My lads school got to the Wigan schools final without ever having a training session and used a borrowed kit. Bedford and StMary's were always big RL schools who now produce very little - is it due to Leigh being away from the big time for too long and the domination of soccer with so many clubs within 15 miles ?

I don't know but clearly there are kids in Leigh who may want to play RL but don't get the facility or encouragement to do so. What do the Leigh club do about this? Launch a destination Superleague campaign?

I'm sure the amount of premiership soccer activity has some sort of an effect on Rugby League which is supposedly in competition with soccer. Again I'm not sure, I think people are different and Rugby gives an alternative to people who find soccer tedious.

The game has limited resources in time, money and volunteers to get out there, so maybe it's just a lack of resources, lack of will, lack of success.

Don't Wigan come sniffing round your town?

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I don't know but clearly there are kids in Leigh who may want to play RL but don't get the facility or encouragement to do so. What do the Leigh club do about this? Launch a destination Superleague campaign?

I'm sure the amount of premiership soccer activity has some sort of an effect on Rugby League which is supposedly in competition with soccer. Again I'm not sure, I think people are different and Rugby gives an alternative to people who find soccer tedious.

The game has limited resources in time, money and volunteers to get out there, so maybe it's just a lack of resources, lack of will, lack of success.

Don't Wigan come sniffing round your town?

It would be interesting to know how many Leigh born players were in the team which stuffed Wigan yesterday.

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It would be interesting to know how many Leigh born players were in the team which stuffed Wigan yesterday.

I don't know the exact team in question but Leigh's first team is made up of lads from widnes, warrington and halifax, plus two from Cumbria.

There's two Leigh lads and two westhoughton lads which is towards Bolton, so home turf really.

Six lads are from Wigan, so it seems commesurate with the idea the "best of the rest" who don't make it at Wigan/other SL academy step down to Championship and Leigh have their fair share.

Not having a go but when a club says they are aiming at Superleaue, yet don't produce any SL quality players and make up their team from mainly SL rejects plus turned a crowd of 1700 last year it make me wonder are they really serious?

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It would be interesting to know how many Leigh born players were in the team which stuffed Wigan yesterday.

Pownall, Ridyard, Penky, Parker, Nicholson, Hopkins, Littler, Taylor, Goulden - Leigh. Brierley Westhoughton but was on Leighs scholarship before moving to Cas academy. Higson is out injured at present.

I expect Hopkins to do a Hill next year.

Obviously Parky knows more than me though.

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Obviously Parky knows more than me though.

Of course I don't know more than you, why make such a silly remark? Someone has to however try to introduce some facts into the debates on here otherwise it all ends up flights of fancy and blind denials. Corrections always welcome by me, so thank you for that at least.

Of course beyond Leigh's first choice team containing several Leigh lads there's the players with shirts 18-25 many who come from Leigh. I'm sure you could put a full Leigh born and bred X111 on the pitch that would do all right somewhere in the Championship or CC1.

But the point inferred was did Leigh beat Wigan in a friendly because they actually do produce players as good as those produced at Wigan and the answer has to be a resounding "no".

And the point overall is does Leigh produce Superleague professionals in enough number to justify going into SL? Certainly they are short crowd wise although the Friday nights didn't help.

So If you know more than me just help me if you will with the accuracy of how many Leigh & district bred lads are Superleague professionals with a current 1-17 shirt?

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Your reply was fairly specific in make up, I am intrigued by the Fax lads and Widnes lads as we have none. I got to 30 or so Leigh raised lads to have played SL, some at International level in Rowley, Baldwin, Higham, Clarke and Naylor, don't know if Parker ever did, and I believe Martyn didn't but many thought should and Tickle started life in Leighs academy, Golborne lad. Does Bracek playing for Wales count, and is Davies in a SL 17 these days?

What is apparent is that we do not have the structures to maximise the areas potential but after spending all but one season in the last 20 or so outside the top that is hardly suprising, but I do believe 3-5 years can turn that around.

The junior structure to copy is that of Wigan, they are the SL player production line and we certainly can't compete with that.

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Your reply was fairly specific in make up, I am intrigued by the Fax lads and Widnes lads as we have none. I got to 30 or so Leigh raised lads to have played SL, some at International level in Rowley, Baldwin, Higham, Clarke and Naylor, don't know if Parker ever did, and I believe Martyn didn't but many thought should and Tickle started life in Leighs academy, Golborne lad. Does Bracek playing for Wales count, and is Davies in a SL 17 these days?

What is apparent is that we do not have the structures to maximise the areas potential but after spending all but one season in the last 20 or so outside the top that is hardly suprising, but I do believe 3-5 years can turn that around.

The junior structure to copy is that of Wigan, they are the SL player production line and we certainly can't compete with that.

What can I say but thanks for the informative reply. I wish you and your club well but if Salford are saved and Leigh entered Superleague then we could get the situation that whenever any quality kid came on the radar in central lancashire where the vast majority of junior RL is played, there'd be a queue of scouts from six clubs knocking on the same door.

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Tickle started life in Leighs academy,

Did he? He played for Halifax in SL as a 17 year old after playing in the academy. How old was he when he played for Leigh?

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Did he? He played for Halifax in SL as a 17 year old after playing in the academy. How old was he when he played for Leigh?

If my dodgy memory is correct he was part of a decent academy side in 99, so he was 16. He appeared at Halifax with a few others Penky, Halliwell - again not 100% but I'd put a tenner on at evens.

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can i ask how many of the wigan academy players come from wigan clubs and how many from leigh clubs and of course the reverse of this .

would be interesting to then see the effects of the difference between super league money and championship money on junior recruitment

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I wondering how useful this exercise is. There are always going to be grey areas - where, for example, a player plays for two Academies. Which one made him into the first grade player he is today ?

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can i ask how many of the wigan academy players come from wigan clubs and how many from leigh clubs and of course the reverse of this .

would be interesting to then see the effects of the difference between super league money and championship money on junior recruitment

I can't answer that accurately all that seems glaringly obvious is top class junior players will go join academies where the money and cups are. If someone ends up a star from the Salford academy like Myler Wire will take him, or Zac and Fev academy, Leeds will take him.

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1. I wondering how useful this exercise is.

2. There are always going to be grey areas - where, for example, a player plays for two Academies. Which one made him into the first grade player he is today ?

1. :( I was wondering how long it would be before someone decided to declare the facts someone has worked hard on "unuseful". I'm just disappointed it's you sir.

2. It doesn't really matter to that degree. It's a general look at where star players come from in what number - never mind the academies, Juniors in championship club areas can't join academies that don't exist. e.g Batley academy.

There's enough in the excersise to make some general conclusions e.g.

Superleague would be in the proverbial if they didn't still import 69 first choice overseas stars.

Several clubs who think they can be superleague successes have hardly spawned any Pro players at all from their areas

If Cas and Fev got together they could have one heck of an academy

Hull have produced only 13 top Hull professionals yet have two clubs in SL

Only Leeds and Wigan have developed enough local players to operate in SL without having to "buy in"

12 out 0f 14 clubs have to buy in players because they don't produce enough of their own and so

Superleague would be in the proverbial if they didn't still import 69 first choice overseas stars.

And there we are full circle.

Griff - how useful is all the fantasising that goes on on here?? :D

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I can't answer that accurately all that seems glaringly obvious is top class junior players will go join academies where the money and cups are. If someone ends up a star from the Salford academy like Myler Wire will take him, or Zac and Fev academy, Leeds will take him.

Myler was Widnes and Salford pinched him when they went into admin, with Sidlow.

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