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maxwel

National Cup

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Will basically be a repeat of the Yorkshire Cup but with fewer teams.

Could say it's been like the Yorkshire Cup for the last few years ;)

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There is still plenty of teams that could make a vibrant National cup even if the NCL teams dont but BARLA need to acknowledge that the majority of teams now play March-October and scheduled the competition in a suitable place, If it had been another two weeks later my club would have entered but 9th feb is only two weeks into our pre-season

BARLA put a plan for the National Cup on the table 2 or 3 years ago to involve all amateur teams in a rescheduled slot in the year, the blueprint was handed into David Gent but the RFL didn't want to follow up an idea from BARLA.

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Such a shame that this competition has come to this, the amateur game needs a national cup competition, perhaps a joint effort or a cup administered by the community board would bridge the gap between the two parent bodies

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The National Cup was dying long before the move to summer.......the main reason being the reluctance by local , ordinary teams now defined as Tier 4 to engage with the ' Big Boys ' of the NCL and Regional Premiers...

Never seen Barla's blueprint for resuscitation Marauder. Did it start by basing it on a summer formula ? Because without that it never stood a chance . Can't see that myself because 2 - 3 years ago the time you say they approached DG , very few were playing in that season .and Barla do not shall we say seem to have the capacity to think wider.

A truly national Tier 4 competition , running Spring to Autumn and excluding not just Tier 3 but also all the winter and summer Top 4 / 6 Premiers from the Heartlands would have much more of a chance.... And I'd put those excluded into the Conference ( Tier 3 ) Cup. Can Barla think outside the box ?

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The National Cup was dying long before the move to summer.......the main reason being the reluctance by local , ordinary teams now defined as Tier 4 to engage with the ' Big Boys ' of the NCL and Regional Premiers...

Never seen Barla's blueprint for resuscitation Marauder. Did it start by basing it on a summer formula ? Because without that it never stood a chance . Can't see that myself because 2 - 3 years ago the time you say they approached DG , very few were playing in that season .and Barla do not shall we say seem to have the capacity to think wider.

A truly national Tier 4 competition , running Spring to Autumn and excluding not just Tier 3 but also all the winter and summer Top 4 / 6 Premiers from the Heartlands would have much more of a chance.... And I'd put those excluded into the Conference ( Tier 3 ) Cup. Can Barla think outside the box ?

Peter you definately know like I that anything BARLA want or say the RFL/Community board will oppose and the structure and alliegiance of the community board committee make sure of that - It's not the case of thinking out of the box because I'm sure many involved with BARLA can, what is probably the problem is the democratic structure of the association and a few egos.

The National Cup had been going downwards and I agree the reasons you have state are probably correct, this is where a cup competition for the lower end of the amateur game should have been run.

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Some ( not many ) within Barla can still think outside the box but I agree with you that they are ultimately stifled because the Barla machine is essentially undemocratic . Sort that out and maybe a whole new world will appear........

Meanwhile you are totally wrong about the Community Board. They do not oppose what Barla bring to the table , if only because Barla have brought nothing to it in at least the last 4 years ........and when the Barla delegate starts to engage ( and I'm not talking just the last one ) they are promptly replaced.....End of days if this continues my friend......

But back to thread. A good , national competition for standard clubs with a chance to progress at the right time and in the right format is bound to have an increased interest. Barla cannot deliver it alone - just 23 entrants for the Cup this time. Maybe those egos you talk about need to talk to the rest of the game to see what if anything can be sorted for next year.....

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Peter you can not deny your part in the demise of the National Cup you and others within the game at both Open age and youth and Junior , made it difficult for your members to parcipate in not allowing windows in your fixture program .

You are however spot on points on the current and recent members of the board of management, they just dont get the need to modernise and move with the times they are there to represent the members and if the majority of the members move to different playing season then they needed to embrace that .

Had they switched the National Cup to align with the Summer Swich would the NCL have given them the windows in your calender to accomadate ?

You also refer to our mutual friend who recently has tried in vain i might add to get the board to work with the governing body to get the best for their members in this time of transistion , and you are right he now is being treated as a leper because he dared to try and do just that get the best for BARLA.

The BARLA board are almost bullet proof in the way they are elected ,irrespective of what they do in their respective roles for the benefit of their members .

Personally i have tried to engage in dialouge with one senior member of the board and he just thinks that the Board are representing their members best interest despite losing the support of major leagues in the association and now the support of its clubs in the open age National Cup .

The association needs fresh blood with modern ideas but the old boys network closes ranks and blocks any moves to do just that .

I still belive we need an effective represenative body for the amatuer game because Peter you know if your honest the RFL are not the real deal .

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Peter you can not deny your part in the demise of the National Cup you and others within the game at both Open age and youth and Junior , made it difficult for your members to parcipate in not allowing windows in your fixture program .

You are however spot on points on the current and recent members of the board of management, they just dont get the need to modernise and move with the times they are there to represent the members and if the majority of the members move to different playing season then they needed to embrace that .

Had they switched the National Cup to align with the Summer Swich would the NCL have given them the windows in your calender to accomadate ?

You also refer to our mutual friend who recently has tried in vain i might add to get the board to work with the governing body to get the best for their members in this time of transistion , and you are right he now is being treated as a leper because he dared to try and do just that get the best for BARLA.

The BARLA board are almost bullet proof in the way they are elected ,irrespective of what they do in their respective roles for the benefit of their members .

Personally i have tried to engage in dialouge with one senior member of the board and he just thinks that the Board are representing their members best interest despite losing the support of major leagues in the association and now the support of its clubs in the open age National Cup .

The association needs fresh blood with modern ideas but the old boys network closes ranks and blocks any moves to do just that .

I still belive we need an effective represenative body for the amatuer game because Peter you know if your honest the RFL are not the real deal .

Got to agree totally and I think one of the main reasons for the demise in the numbers entering the National Cup in recent years was answered on another thread by Peter.

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When four out of five of the current ' winter ' sides choose not to enter then the problem is far greater than the NCL calender Taxi Egg.

If I were Barla I'd do some research and start by asking those clubs who have not entered why they haven't. Armed with that info they would then at least be in a position to start to address the issues. It may of course be simply a case of not wanting a cup , in which case Barla may just have to bite the bullet, but I suspect it's more complex than that.

As to the NCL Calender, the clubs rightly demand continuity of fixtures. Cup competition does not give you that. They also at present want Divisions of 14 where we can give it to them , thereby leaving little room for manouver.. But more to the point Tier 3 has it's own Cup properly sitting within it's own season.

The National Cup was in serious decline well before the move to summer and even when the NCL DID leave gaps for it to take place . The inclusion of NCL clubs probably put lots of 'ordinary ' clubs off entering .Without picking on anyone in particular what would be the prospects of say Adlington turning up to play Leigh Miners 1st team ?

No , the answer , if there is one, lies in a countrywide Tier 4 competition excluding the top end of the regional premiers such as Queens , Bank Quay , Fryston etc ( they could perhaps 'guest' in the Tier 3 cup ) .To cater for everyone it might need to be split ( not my preference ) --- 3 / 4 rounds in October / November ( if necessary ) recommencing May and into June , again if necessary. All sides would have match fitness in such a scenario.......and they would all have a chance to have some fun without having the living daylight beaten out of them :)

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The four out of five winter sides entered to have a crack at the NCL BIG BOYS Peter .So perhaps there lies the answer to your question ?

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The four out of five winter sides entered to have a crack at the NCL BIG BOYS Peter .So perhaps there lies the answer to your question ?

We entered to have a crack at the big boys and on our last showing against a NCL club we did ourselves proud.

I've been told the only reason we never entered this season was to limit the chance of getting more injuries as we attempt to keep out place in the Pennine championship.

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The four out of five winter sides entered to have a crack at the NCL BIG BOYS Peter .So perhaps there lies the answer to your question ?

I think you have the maths wrong there Taxi Egg .

Only one in five have entered . 23 in total out of a possible 100 plus. Maybe all the rest just don't want to go anywhere near an NCL outfit or for that matter the usual suspects from the Pennine League Premiers !!!

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I think you have the maths wrong there Taxi Egg .

Only one in five have entered . 23 in total out of a possible 100 plus. Maybe all the rest just don't want to go anywhere near an NCL outfit or for that matter the usual suspects from the Pennine League Premiers !!!

More than 100 clubs are eligible, in fact only one of last seasons NCL clubs is not, Cumbrian clubs are as well as most NWCML (Or what ever it's called)

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Must be two of us with the wrong maths Peter as was just replying to your earlier post.

Would the challenge cup survive if super league clubs withdrew ?

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Must be two of us with the wrong maths Peter as was just replying to your earlier post.

Would the challenge cup survive if super league clubs withdrew ?

Read me again Taxi Egg. I said when four out of five choose NOT to enter :)

It's a winter competition Marauder as currently structured. And 80% of winter sides don't want to know. That's the immediate problem. Any decent administration would have been asking questions why long before now.......

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Read me again Taxi Egg. I said when four out of five choose NOT to enter :)

It's a winter competition Marauder as currently structured. And 80% of winter sides don't want to know. That's the immediate problem. Any decent administration would have been asking questions why long before now.......

It';s a cup competition open to any club associated with BARLA, it just happens to be run during the winter at the moment.

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its going to be interesting once the 2nd round gets underway, scheduled for 2nd march. how appropriate that it clashes with the opening round of games for the ncl. sometimes i wonder if these arrangements are purposely put in place to cause the most conflict/ disruption. i wonder what plans leigh miners, if they progress from round 1, and leigh east have as progression in the cup clashes with ncl league games. unless the rules have changed and the barla cup fixture has precedance over the league fixture, therefore a postponement. last year saw siddal progress to the latter rounds and with a 92-0 drubbing at leigh miners, surely this had and has great ramifications to the ncl league positions, therefore making a farce of the league.

it ll be interesting what decisions have/ need to be made both from the clubs involved and the ncl commitee.

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its going to be interesting once the 2nd round gets underway, scheduled for 2nd march. how appropriate that it clashes with the opening round of games for the ncl. sometimes i wonder if these arrangements are purposely put in place to cause the most conflict/ disruption. i wonder what plans leigh miners, if they progress from round 1, and leigh east have as progression in the cup clashes with ncl league games. unless the rules have changed and the barla cup fixture has precedance over the league fixture, therefore a postponement. last year saw siddal progress to the latter rounds and with a 92-0 drubbing at leigh miners, surely this had and has great ramifications to the ncl league positions, therefore making a farce of the league.

it ll be interesting what decisions have/ need to be made both from the clubs involved and the ncl commitee.

I wonder why a competition thats has been run at this time of the year for the last 40 years by BARLA all of a sudden been arranged to cause disruption to the NCL.

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I wonder why a competition thats has been run at this time of the year for the last 40 years by BARLA all of a sudden been arranged to cause disruption to the NCL.

disruption to the ncl, maybe, maybe not. depends on certain decisions made, like i said from the ncl clubs involved and the ncl commitee.

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And like i posted perhaps the four out of five who choose not to enter,do so because they cant be pitched against the perceived big boys ie the NCL clubs . Quite simple really Peter .

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And like i posted perhaps the four out of five who choose not to enter,do so because they cant be pitched against the perceived big boys ie the NCL clubs . Quite simple really Peter .

Not simple at all Taxi Egg.

Perhaps you can explain the downward spiral in numbers that has occurred over at least the last half dozen years.?

Remember that it is only since September 2011 that the NCL in moving to summer left no vacant dates for the National Cup. Before that NCL clubs could be accommodated if they wanted to compete (unlike the County Cups )

Both NCL and regional clubs have been voting with their feet for a long time now..........

When your second team beats Methley , I hope they're not drawn away to the likes of Sharlston , Queens or Fryston to name but a few :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Not simple at all Taxi Egg.

Perhaps you can explain the downward spiral in numbers that has occurred over at least the last half dozen years.?

Remember that it is only since September 2011 that the NCL in moving to summer left no vacant dates for the National Cup. Before that NCL clubs could be accommodated if they wanted to compete (unlike the County Cups )

Both NCL and regional clubs have been voting with their feet for a long time now..........

When your second team beats Methley , I hope they're not drawn away to the likes of Sharlston , Queens or Fryston to name but a few :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't under estimate Methley, and the simple reason clubs from lower down the pecking order don't go into the National Cup is simply financial and to protect players against injury if drawn against NCL/Premier Regional sides.

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Don't under estimate Methley, and the simple reason clubs from lower down the pecking order don't go into the National Cup is simply financial and to protect players against injury if drawn against NCL/Premier Regional sides.

I'm not Marauder. My post was a bit tongue in cheek and sorry if I have left an impression of 'dissing ' anyone.

The point I am trying to make is that no way will Leigh Miners not turn out their First Team for their first NCL match. Siddal took half a season to recover from that disaster at Twiss Lane last year and lost the minor Prem as a direct consequence. Everyone learned a lesson that day. So it will be the Reserves , and if they go through there are some potential , shall we say , 'difficult ' away days on offer.....

And yes I agree with you about the lower clubs. Would it not be a more attractive proposition therefore to concentrate the Cup on them to the exclusion of the biggest guys ? Maybe then the Competition would get back to the 100 plus entrants it used to enjoy......

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Are you saying we do not have a good enough squad to put out 2 good sides?. Don't forget our A team have gained promotion the last 2 years. Peter we still play at Twist Lane.

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Perceived " bigger guys" recent history shows the minnows more than held their own swimming in the big pond.

And i thought Coley and Witty picked the first team squad or is that a hidden word of warning from the BIG Ncl management ?

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