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John Drake

EU - In or Out?

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?   62 members have voted

  1. 1. European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

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241 posts in this topic

Every one of the EU countries buys oil from the Middle East and shedloads of manufactured goods from China and India ... none of which have remotely acceptable social and employment rights.

I can only speak for UK Supermarkets but their buying teams make regular unannounced visits to third world suppliers to ensure the factories meet EU Health & Safety and Employment standards.

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Lefties and the BBC (which is also leftie so I suppose I didn't need to separate it) would love that to be the case. They would relish continued struggle

Oh good god she's at it again. :lol:

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Social rights are essential for a fair single market. They impact on fitness to work in terms of health, housing etc; on employment law and rights at work; training and skills development; pension rights; equalities legislation; free movement of labour; industrial regeneration etc etc etc

Well, the same rights across all workers are essential for a fair market.

So if we had Dickensian rights here for the market to be fair they would also need Dickensian rights in Slovakia.

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So if we had Dickensian rights here for the market to be fair they would also need Dickensian rights in Slovakia.

So that's what the coalition is trying to achieve.

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Oh good god she's at it again. :lol:

Stick with it Saintslass, you're views are just as relevant as anyone else's on here, and well appreciated.

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Part of the problem the UK economy faces is the cost levied on industry by EU environmental legislation. Quite a bit of this is based on dubious theory and results in ludicrous practices.

£64 per tonne Landfill Tax is an absolute joke.

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Oh good god she's at it again. :lol:

And so are you, trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with you.

Try to be less of a bully!

And address the issues, not the individual poster!

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And address the issues, not the individual poster!

Irony klaxon goes off.

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I wouldn't. At least not our version of one anyway. When we got to the double dip stage the economy was still growing, just not as much as it had been. The pundits (BBC ones anyway) called it a 'technical' recession because of this. Any triple dip will be likewise as no doubt the economy will still be growing just not as much as people would like.

This is entirely false. The economy is still nowhere near regaining the size it was in 2007 - figures today show we're two years off in the best case.

Social rights aren't integral to a single market; a lack of trade barriers is, social rights isn't a trade barrier.

I didn't say anything about them being a trade barrier. They are a barrier to free movement though, and free movement is crucial for the single market to function.

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figures today show we're two years off in the best case.

BBC figures invented by the BBC. Because they are leftists.

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BBC figures invented by the BBC. Because they are leftists.

Even Gideon hasn't thought of, "the economy's not getting smaller, it's just not growing as fast as it's shrinking'. Yet.

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Even Gideon hasn't thought of, "the economy's not getting smaller, it's just not growing as fast as it's shrinking'. Yet.

There is the phrase 'negative growth' which does the rounds.

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I spent a couple of hours wondering around the Museum of Genicude Victims yesterday in Vilnius, its to easy to forget just how far we've come as a continent in a relativelty short space of time.

The story told in there alone is enough of a reason for me never to see a No vote as an option.

Things could be change/improved of course, but we should be tackling those from the inside not as outsiders looking in.

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I spent a couple of hours wondering around the Museum of Genicude Victims yesterday in Vilnius, its to easy to forget just how far we've come as a continent in a relativelty short space of time.

The story told in there alone is enough of a reason for me never to see a No vote as an option.

Things could be change/improved of course, but we should be tackling those from the inside not as outsiders looking in.

Er, pardon me, but which country was it who committed most of the atrocities in Western Europe in the twentieth century? Surely we can't allow them to sit in the EU alongside us?

... Oh yes, that's right I remember now, Harold McMillan and Ted Heath each went down on his bended knee before Germany and our longest enemies France and begged them to let us join their rigged club. Of course we could, if they could have our oil at the same price as us, open access to our fisheries, and a financial arrangement where we paid more in than anyone else.

Yet another reason to never vote Tory.

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I wouldn't. At least not our version of one anyway. When we got to the double dip stage the economy was still growing, just not as much as it had been. The pundits (BBC ones anyway) called it a 'technical' recession because of this. Any triple dip will be likewise as no doubt the economy will still be growing just not as much as people would like.

Sorry, I missed this bit (too busy laughing at the BBC comment).

When an economy is in recession, not only is it not growing, it is actually contracting/getting smaller/shrinking/re-adjusting to a lower level of activity.

And the term 'technical recession' has nothing to do with BBC pundits.

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And so are you, trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with you.

Try to be less of a bully!

And address the issues, not the individual poster!

I'll ignore the bully comment.

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous to state that 'lefties' would welcome yet another dip into recession and to relish the thought of an economic struggle. I have to wonder where that opinion comes from. Of course those on the left (which I count myself as one) want the UK economy to prosper, irrespective of who is in government. Unfortunately the current government is doing all they can to prevent that and one party in the coalition have realised the mistakes they have made (cf. Clegg's comments).

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I didn't say anything about them being a trade barrier. They are a barrier to free movement though, and free movement is crucial for the single market to function.

I didn't say you claimed that they were a trade barrier. I said that you don't seem to understand what is meant by a free market.

Social protection is never a barrier to free movement of people.

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Social rights are essential for a fair single market. They impact on fitness to work in terms of health, housing etc; on employment law and rights at work; training and skills development; pension rights; equalities legislation; free movement of labour; industrial regeneration etc etc etc

We did not talk about a "fair single market", we were discussing a "free market". None of the things above has anything to do with a free market except free movement of labour (and that has nothing to do with social protection).

They might have much to do with "fairness" depending how you define "fair" but I think it's safe to say that Cameron doesn't share your definition.

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Nigel Farage is the ONLY person who speaks any sense in UK politics all the others CAMERON/CLEGG etc are a bunch of left wing champagne socialists and as for Ed Miliband we should bring back hanging :))))CM

The ONLY sense Nigel Farage brings to UK politics is that he splits the reactionary vote. Sadly, that vote all too often makes its way back to the Tory party by the time of the general election.

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and correct too. BBC News and Current affairs in particular. There is a huge body of evidence and the BBC have admitted it.

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EDIT - step away from the keyboard son you appear to be posting having had a drink! ;)

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and correct too. BBC News and Current affairs in particular. There is a huge body of evidence and the BBC have admitted it.

TRL bingo, John mentioning the BBC

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Sorry, I missed this bit (too busy laughing at the BBC comment).

The economy throughout 2012, according to a quote on the BBC website (see below) today anyway, grew by 1% over the whole year. That was lower than forecast but it did actually grow. It's been growing and then shrinking back again for a couple of years now. That is different from other periods in time.

The BBC is well known for being left of centre by the way. I do believe employees have admitted as much, and publically too. It isn't required to be neutral you know. It's only required to present the opposing/alternative point of view. Take a look at the Trust website for confirmation of that.

When an economy is in recession, not only is it not growing, it is actually contracting/getting smaller/shrinking/re-adjusting to a lower level of activity.

But, as I said above, our economy hasn't been in recession all year. There is a nice little bar chart for you here,http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21193525 plus if you scroll down you will see a rep from that bastion of leftiness the TUC suggesting the economy 'only' grew by 1%. If you take oil and gas out of the equation and the economy shrank by just 0.1%, having grown in the previous quarter by 0.9%. Had we decent weather during 2012 there may have been greater growth. Economists universally accept, for example, that the winter of 2010 had a marked effect on the economy as people couldn't get to work and couldn't go out shopping, etc. School closures hinder the economy every time they happen, and they happen at the drop of a hat in this country. Schools were letting out early today in places where it wasn't even snowing! That will have cost our economy, again.

And the term 'technical recession' has nothing to do with BBC pundits.

So the fact that somebody uses a term means it has nothing to do with them? You're really grasping at straws!

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