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John Drake

EU - In or Out?

European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?   62 members have voted

  1. 1. European Union - Should the UK be In or Out?

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241 posts in this topic

Who, or what are Grauniad​istas? I've always been intrigued to know. :blink:

People who disagree with a particular world view. Whether they read the Guardian or not - it's an easy label.

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People who read the grauniad

a sub set. Those who read it, enjoy it, support it and get their solace within.

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Who, or what are Grauniad​istas? I've always been intrigued to know. :blink:

if you have to ask, then you are not one.

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if you have to ask, then you are not one.

You apparently don't have to ask.

Does that mean you are one?

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No, that is false logic. Remember your set theory from school?

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Remember your set theory from school?

No.

Was it fun?

Did it involve staring at the German teacher's legs? That's about the only thing I can remember from school.

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Did it involve staring at the German teacher's legs?

You should have paid more attention to what was coming out of his mouth

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No.

Was it fun?

Did it involve staring at the German teacher's legs? That's about the only thing I can remember from school.

bout as much fun as anything could be in a school of the 1950s/60s/ Ours seemed to be the one out of Kes!

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:) Hardly! It just emphasises the sheer horror of it all - and nearly ten years before the book was published, our gym teacher was a Brian Glover look-a-like! :O

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:) Hardly! It just emphasises the sheer horror of it all - and nearly ten years before the book was published, our gym teacher was a Brian Glover look-a-like! :O

Looks are irrelevant - did he sound like him?

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Looks are irrelevant - did he sound like him?

My mate and I met him once having an after-show drink in the bar at the Victoria Theatre in Halifax when he appeared in The Canterbury Tales. He sounded exactly the same offstage as on.

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I must admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the detail of the proposal (is there any detail?), but could anyone explain the mechanics of what Cameron is proposing?

He intends to repatriate powers from the EU to Westminster but how will this be achieved? Will it need a new treaty, or is there some accelerated method of amending existing ones?

If it is a new treaty then it will require the approval of all other member states, plus at least one other referendum (in Ireland). If existing treaties can be amended then, presumably, authorisation from the EU will be by majority vote of the European Council. Has any of this been outlined in press reports?

The proposition for the actual vote seems a bit of, well, a hybrid. It appears to propose a multi-option referendum with one of the options missing. We may be allowed to vote for the re-negotiated terms, or to come out of the EU altogether, but what about staying in on the current terms? The normal procedure if you were renegotiating amendments to something would be that if the final package was rejected, then the proposal would fall,the status quo would remain, and you would then have to decide on whether to stay in or come out. Has this been explained by Cameron or in the press?

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My mate and I met him once having an after-show drink in the bar at the Victoria Theatre in Halifax when he appeared in The Canterbury Tales. He sounded exactly the same offstage as on.

I sort of imagined he would.

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I must admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the detail of the proposal (is there any detail?), but could anyone explain the mechanics of what Cameron is proposing?

He intends to repatriate powers from the EU to Westminster but how will this be achieved? Will it need a new treaty, or is there some accelerated method of amending existing ones?

If it is a new treaty then it will require the approval of all other member states, plus at least one other referendum (in Ireland). If existing treaties can be amended then, presumably, authorisation from the EU will be by majority vote of the European Council. Has any of this been outlined in press reports?

The proposition for the actual vote seems a bit of, well, a hybrid. It appears to propose a multi-option referendum with one of the options missing. We may be allowed to vote for the re-negotiated terms, or to come out of the EU altogether, but what about staying in on the current terms? The normal procedure if you were renegotiating amendments to something would be that if the final package was rejected, then the proposal would fall,the status quo would remain, and you would then have to decide on whether to stay in or come out. Has this been explained by Cameron or in the press?

What has been reported - I haven't checked the detail for its accuracy, but this is the consistent view - is that he will seek to renegotiate the UK position and then ask a straight in/out question based on that renegotiated position. The referendum will be in 2017, so I assume the renegotiation will be 2015/16 after the next election.

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You should have paid more attention to what was coming out of his mouth

:D

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What has been reported - I haven't checked the detail for its accuracy, but this is the consistent view - is that he will seek to renegotiate the UK position and then ask a straight in/out question based on that renegotiated position. The referendum will be in 2017, so I assume the renegotiation will be 2015/16 after the next election.

I wonder what happens if the UK electorate vote for the re-negotiated package (ie to stay in the EU), but the rest of the EU member states reject it. Presumably, the new deal would have to be ratified by all the member states (or a majority if it's just amendments to existing treaties) first, then put to the UK electorate. If no deal is agreed then does Cameron just have a straight in-out referendum on the existing membership terms?

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I wonder what happens if the UK electorate vote for the re-negotiated package (ie to stay in the EU), but the rest of the EU member states reject it. Presumably, the new deal would have to be ratified by all the member states (or a majority if it's just amendments to existing treaties) first, then put to the UK electorate. If no deal is agreed then does Cameron just have a straight in-out referendum on the existing membership terms?

He's got to win an overall majority at the next election first so it's fairly well academic anyway.

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What has been reported - I haven't checked the detail for its accuracy, but this is the consistent view - is that he will seek to renegotiate the UK position and then ask a straight in/out question based on that renegotiated position. The referendum will be in 2017, so I assume the renegotiation will be 2015/16 after the next election.

These are mere details. Cameron's not big on details.

I suspect that the renegotiation will never even start and that Cameron will be long gone by 2017.

On the other hand, the speech did achieve it's aim in quelling the unrest on Tory backbenches. Well, for almost a week anyway.

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He's got to win an overall majority at the next election first so it's fairly well academic anyway.

Do you think? I've just got a feeling that Labour's opinion poll lead is nowhere near big enough at this stage of the parliament. And then there's all those UKIP protest votes that will come back if there's the slightest prospect of a Labour win.

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Do you think? I've just got a feeling that Labour's opinion poll lead is nowhere near big enough at this stage of the parliament. And then there's all those UKIP protest votes that will come back if there's the slightest prospect of a Labour win.

Well, the proposed boundary changes have just been defeated in parliament so that'll make Labour's life easier.

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