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casablanca

Widnes dual reg players agreement

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ask featherstone the same question mate, theyve won the championship for the last 3 years. imo they are doing it right. even with all the local teams around them and cas just down the road they have developed a very good team which will be the one to beat again this year.

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Yep . I'll take the 30 pieces of silver to help avoid a trip back down to the graveyard league ( maybe even literally for the club ... ) Use it to help cement your place and then you can build and consolidate and strengthen your club and its development . No room for moral sentiment this year I'm afraid . Fev and the like had to consolidate to get where they are today , we have to take any advantage to start that process ourselves . In 2 or 3 years we can be strong enough to ignore this system , but we have to take this step to start the process . We can't build long term if we go down . I'm not saying our squad would , but every bit of strengthening helps .

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ask featherstone the same question mate, theyve won the championship for the last 3 years. imo they are doing it right. even with all the local teams around them and cas just down the road they have developed a very good team which will be the one to beat again this year.

No, I was asking you what do you think Holty will do if he gets a run of injuries like we did last season? Fev can attract players that we can't because of the travelling distance.

People are under the impression that Town will be playing 5 Widnes players every match and the 5 will be different players. What do you suppose our own players would say about that, if that was the case? A touch of reality is required by some people before making posts.

If as happened last season players can be registered as dual players throughout the season, I can see most clubs that have linked signing on more than 5 or 6 players. Someone on (I think) the Rochdale forum last week was saying that it had been said that Rochdale would have the pick of Saints Under 20's and Haven would have the pick of the Saints first team squad who weren't in the 20 man squad for that particular week. That seems to me to be just what has happened at Town and Widnes.

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Some how Keith don't think haven will be taking the full saints squad on DR.Doing that only benefits Widnes it's clear how they see it working by using town to be able to give any player coming back from injury or ban a bit of game time .The talk down here is haven will take one or two on season long loans with another one or two on DR to be used as required,can't see robey etc being on DR.like yourself not a fan of this system but at the mo it seems to be necessary evil imposed by the RFL,but I don't think even they imagined it would mean a full SL squad being on DR

Thus seems to suggest we will give our own players first shot

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/haven/whitehaven-boss-keen-to-use-own-players-against-york-1.1029947?referrerPath=sport/haven

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H4ever, have you stopped to work it out. SL squads are 30 strong, 20 of which will be required for each SL match as they have to name a 20 man squad. That leaves 10 others which will throughout the season include players that are injured or suspended, etc, so how many players are we realistically talking about. If Saints have a run of injuries how long before your two are recalled leaving you with no cover. I think you will find that you will have several registered but maybe try to use the same two.

I don't like the system and at present there are more questions than answers but the cards were dealt as soon as Leeds and Hunslet unilaterally announced their link up. It was obvious that others would have to follow or fall behind.

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Agree with what you say Keith but a massive difference between what say Swinton have done register 5 DR players from wire and what town have done registering a full squad .Why register a player like Kevin brown who if fit will play every week,only reason is if he is out for a while so he can get a 20/30 min run out before getting back in first team ,Widnes will expect this otherwise why even register him on DR,and while the thought of him having a cameo for town might seem appealing to fans ,the disruption to squad ,tactics and other playersetc all for 20/30 mins to blow out the cobwebs to me seems ill thought out

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It's obviously got a few others worried or they wouldn't be talking about disagreeing with it so much. It was a different story when town didn't have a link up and other teams fans thought we were missing a trick. Or are they worried that super league standard players will boost our gate giving us more revenue?

If we have an injured half back and get the option of playing an SL half back would any club jn their right mind turn it down?

And if anyone believes Haven won't use their link up then they must be mad. It's just a statement to try and show he has faith in his own squad but should haven have a poor start I guarantee it won't be long until he goes back to saints with his tail between his legs

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I can see the advantage of getting over our lack of players for the first few weeks of the season and I can see the advantage of us staying up this year.

However, the whole thing just reeks of a lack of planning and integrity, which ever way you look at it.

If we get the use of some good players and actually end up above say Halifax and in the play-offs, are we better than them - no way. It will feel a bit false.

The report on the radio tonight talked about Town having a weekly choice of players - to me that means no stability, pi$$ing players like Callum Phillips off who never know whether they are in or out and letting Widnes use us to get their players fit.

I really don't want to see cameo appearances by the likes of Brown and Hanbury for a 30 min session to get a bit of game time no matter how good they are.

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Agree with what you say Keith but a massive difference between what say Swinton have done register 5 DR players from wire and what town have done registering a full squad .Why register a player like Kevin brown who if fit will play every week,only reason is if he is out for a while so he can get a 20/30 min run out before getting back in first team ,Widnes will expect this otherwise why even register him on DR,and while the thought of him having a cameo for town might seem appealing to fans ,the disruption to squad ,tactics and other playersetc all for 20/30 mins to blow out the cobwebs to me seems ill thought out

Maybe Town and Widnes have been too honest is announcing this as I have just read another post on another forum saying that Swinton team tonight included 9 Warrington players. There are no rules about how many players are registered that is the point. The only rule is that you can only use 5 at any one time.

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I can see the advantage of getting over our lack of players for the first few weeks of the season and I can see the advantage of us staying up this year.

However, the whole thing just reeks of a lack of planning and integrity, which ever way you look at it.

If we get the use of some good players and actually end up above say Halifax and in the play-offs, are we better than them - no way. It will feel a bit false.

The report on the radio tonight talked about Town having a weekly choice of players - to me that means no stability, pi$$ing players like Callum Phillips off who never know whether they are in or out and letting Widnes use us to get their players fit.

I really don't want to see cameo appearances by the likes of Brown and Hanbury for a 30 min session to get a bit of game time no matter how good they are.

As far as the playing squad is concerned it is no different to last season when we had up to 4 dual registered or loaned players. They didn't all play before our own players and i don't believe for one minute that it will happen this year. Which coach worth his salt is going to upset his own players as you suggest by leaving them out and at Town I'm sure the fans would not stand for it either.

We had players knackered by the end of last season and look how many had to have operations in November/December from playing whilst carrying injuries. This system will alleviate that by giving those players a rest to get over the knocks before they become more serious. Let's all give a chance and see how it goes.

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It's certainly exciting possibilities . Joe Mellor was a boom young Wigan half who'll be behind Brown and Hanbury , I remember Chris Dean playing centre a few times for Saints , and Paddy Flynn is a try scoring and kicking machine.Lloyd White is an excitement machine returning from a long lay off . Just a few there ,it's a strong squad throughout and this move gives huge choice n room for manoeuvre for us as and when needed. We can see it as supplementing a strong squad , keeping our guys on their toes , and improving our standards by being around these guys .

Mate I think Craven is a better player than Mellor.Paddy Flynn does not kick goals and I guess you mean Ah Van.Gilmore is also a good halfback.Hope the link up goes well mate.

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So do we all ... It's just suck it and see for all clubs at the moment. Interesting to see how it all pans out and what the level of distortion is to the championship and its clubs. Lets just hope the positives outweigh the negatives for us .I still think as of now this is a heartening development given the tremendous strength of this league . Good luck to both great clubs for a relatively successful campaign and up the town !

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The one thing that i am worried adout is we have signed some very good local lads and i think there is still some more out there that could make the grade but with this dual reg will we be interested in signing them or will they be interested in coming to town makes me think ??.

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Who says we can't see this?

I'd argue that right now we aren't feeding anyone as the only thing we are doing is giving fringe players game time. But who's to say they won't give Brett etc a once over and maybe fancy giving them a go, but the club would never stand in anyone's way if a SL club came knocking anyway so what's the difference?

My view for this season is that there are so many of the clubs in the championship doing it that we can't afford not to. Barrow may be doing it the purists way but what happens if they get relegated and are in Champ 1 next year. Who is right and wrong??

I know what you mean Holymoly but it isn't such a black and white issue.

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The RFL have set it up to become a feeder system regardless of what they may say. Their attitude is 'if it works in Oz it's bound to work here' and they aren't interested in anything outside super league

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Just to clarify some of the concerns within this thread. What people may not be aware if is that the RFL have produced a whole list of governance procedures, restrictions and criteria regarding the dual reg arrangements - particularly around salary cap and numbers of games permitted.

Each player has been given a notional value by the RFL (Governed by their parent Club actual salary). So anytime a player (with the exception of U21s) plays on dual reg, the dual reg receiving club has to absorb the players notional value on to their salary cap returns. Thus intending to prevent a glut of top players playing week in week out.

Also, there is a restriction on players being involved in the latter stages of the competition. The player has to have played a defined number of games to be able to play in the last eight weeks of competition - up to the play offs.

These, along with other measures will go a long way to protecting the integrity of the competition.

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Just to clarify some of the concerns within this thread. What people may not be aware if is that the RFL have produced a whole list of governance procedures, restrictions and criteria regarding the dual reg arrangements - particularly around salary cap and numbers of games permitted.

Each player has been given a notional value by the RFL (Governed by their parent Club actual salary). So anytime a player (with the exception of U21s) plays on dual reg, the dual reg receiving club has to absorb the players notional value on to their salary cap returns. Thus intending to prevent a glut of top players playing week in week out.

Also, there is a restriction on players being involved in the latter stages of the competition. The player has to have played a defined number of games to be able to play in the last eight weeks of competition - up to the play offs.

These, along with other measures will go a long way to protecting the integrity of the competition.

Aye and the RFL has such a great track record of governing the salary cap???

Several SL clubs are facing financial ruin and are sticking to the salary cap according to the RFL. I fail to see how that is possible, given that the salary cap limits the amount of money a club can spend, depending on there income/revenue. The RFL also awarded Bradford a Grade B SL license a year later.........

Barrow broke the cap for 2 seasons running before the RFL discovered that a team consisting of umpteen full time ex-SL pro's was costing more than £300k a season to run. Come on get real! The couldn't organise a "pea soup" in a brewery

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i dont agree with this feeder idea but wont condemn clubs for doing it ... in the back of my mind I think Raiders not doing it could bite us in the ass?

But I still think you should have a known squad of around 25 players and only need dual reg if there is an injury crisis like we did mid season or Worky did later on last season.

Good luck to all the Cumbrian clubs for this coming season.

Lee

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Don't think anyone has mentioned top players playing onDR week in week out.The point i tried to raise was about registering top players on DR in the first place.I used brown as an example,why register him on DR he will be playing for Widnes week in week out so no chance of playing for town.Unless of course he spends time out injured then give him a 20/30 min blow out on his return that's the only reason I can see to DR him or the whole squad .Widnes see this as a way to keep fringe players fit but give others a run out if they have missed a few games.

This is not a dig at town more the system,if haven were to do the same I for one would not be happy

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As far as I'm aware Widnes dont pick who Town get they give a list of available players andRown pick who they need for that particular week, is that correct?

Im sure you'd be pleased if Haven did the same and are just worried Town may have an advantage over you.

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No I wouldn't be happy and if that is the case and Widnes have no input into who town get then why DR players the likes of brown who if fit you have no chance of getting.Think you are being very naive if you think Widnes don't see players getting a blow.out as an option

You also have to consider the impact that could have on your own players.This where the system is floored ,how can being able to DR a full squad be good for the game,but that's another debate

As for being worried with the 2 props we have just signed and the 2 names mentioned coming from saints one thing I'm not doing is worrying about town

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If you weren't worried you wouldn't feel the need to post and yes the system is FLAWED but you have to make the best of it. Wouldn't it be a crying shame if town had a top class super league player playing to get a bit of fitness. That's bound to drive the crowds away.....NOT

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Cheers for the concern Haven , but concern yourself with your own team . Lets not get three steps ahead and see how things develop ,

but as of now we' re quite content . Top class player getting a blow here ... Fine by me . Imagine what our guys will learn by the rub off .

But as I say , let's wait n see . If we see it as supplementing when needed rather than full absorption then great , and our BOD and coaches know the score and will use this wisely . Our guys will get the gig I'm sure , we' re full of quality ,and when numbers are light then we'll use the link , as we'll see early season . Look at the positives involved not the potential negatives down the line.

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