Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Derwent

An Interesting Approach to Dual Reg.....

Recommended Posts

Keith T    361

When this system was announced after the link up between Leeds and Hunslet, I stated that I was not happy with the idea and that there needed to be some hard and fast rules to regulate it. Since then almost every other link up has had differing benefits for the "junior" partner with such as Batley getting free medical services from the Giants, others using SL club facilities and services on a regular basis, etc, etc.

Having said that I now cannot believe some of the claptrap that is being spouted by some posters. Last season Championship and Championship 1 clubs were allowed to recruit 4 dual registered players as well as take "loanee" players from SL clubs. Doncaster won the Championship 1 title with I believe 3 or 4 dual reg players and many other clubs had 4 dual reg players in their 17 most weeks. Barrow reached the Championship 1 final with 3 or 4 dual registered players!! Did Fev not have some dual reg players? What about Halifax? Leigh?

As it has been said Town can only play 5 players at any one time and I don't believe for one minute that they will either do that or even want to do that each week. We have a good squad of young players with a sprinkling of good experienced players (Jamie Thackray, Ewan Dowes, Peter Lupton, Mark Calderwood) and I'm sure that our coaches will want to play our own lads as much as possible.

We have 23 players signed on but because several had operations during December and are still recuperating, plus we have had 3 players carrying over suspensions from last season, we haven't been able to play a friendly pre-season game. We had a run out at Widnes when we had to include two triallists and play our conditioner on the wing, and I can see that for our first few matches we may require upwards of 3 or 4 players from Widnes.

Our coaches will have identified the positions where we will be weakest and will no doubt look to Widnes for players to cover but I don't see how it is any different to what many clubs did last season, when dual reg players trained with their own SL clubs and came to the Championship club for one session before the weekends match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

The integrity of the comp was undermined as soon as automatic promotion to Super league was taken away.

That's the answer I was looking for. The changes imposed by the rich over the impoverished is kind of a "now you have nothing to do and nowhere to go why not make yourself useful"........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keighley    579

But that's all if and maybes, i dont agree with an entire squad been dual reg to another club, and our supporters would never accept it, we have had all on convincing them that 4 quality youngsters from Leeds will be beneficial.

But they are the rules set by the RFL, dont blame clubs for exploiting them, its the RFL who should be feeling the backlash not the clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL to benefit their own clubs.

I do blame the RFL and the SL clubs, not the CC clubs.

I understand the SL club's need to cut costs. I understand their desire to keep some fringe members of their junior set up involved in the game. Any arrangement like this should be for a seasons long loan so everybody in the CC knows what they are up against. There should be no chopping and changing on a weekly basis and the 4 tom 5 loanee players should be known before the season starts. To register the whole playing staff of a SL club and then mix and change the loanees on a weekly basis will lead to abuses such as posters have speculated on on this thread.

Foe me it is against the spirit of the original intention to save costs and keep some marginal SL juniors in the game instead of cutting them loose.

It will dilute the value of the championships. Who wants to follow a team winning things with their players owing allegiance to another organisation. It wiould be a hollow victory and will damage the worth of the division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

When this system was announced after the link up between Leeds and Hunslet, I stated that I was not happy with the idea and that there needed to be some hard and fast rules to regulate it.

Why?

To hold back the tide of dependance?

If you want that the best thing to do is not to get tied up in the first place isn't it.

Fev. Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax have had the integrity to refuse to get involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keighley    579

That's the answer I was looking for. The changes imposed by the rich over the impoverished is kind of a "now you have nothing to do and nowhere to go why not make yourself useful"........

Don't you think that's sad and depressing.? I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

It will dilute the value of the championships and will damage the worth of the division.

So the closed shop created in 2006 and the low salary cap placed on CC didn't damage it's value and worth?

If you think this is the start of something, then consider it actually may be part of an end game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith T    361

To register the whole playing staff of a SL club and then mix and change the loanees on a weekly basis will lead to abuses such as posters have speculated on on this thread.

There we go again. Where does it state that Town will be using 4 or 5 different Widnes players every week?

It doesn't. What it says is that any of the Widnes players will be available for Town if they are not in the first team squad for that week. I'm sure that will be the same for any of the SL players in any of the link ups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"clubs who are working within the rules set by the RFL"

Can you please point me to a link or press release around the rules and guidelines for the coming season with respect to the Championship salary cap and Challenge Cup eligibility (as that issue is just around the corner).

Its not up to me to point you to the rules of the RFL, My club is well within the rules of the dual reg agreement, that's

No your right. The sad thing is BH that a Leeds reserve the club doesn't need is eagerly snapped up by Wakefield who really should be producing their own players. Sadly for such a big city with such an RL heritage and no direct opposition from Soccer there's only a couple of Wakefield born lads in SL.

I've just seen the plans for the Hunslet/Leeds tie up and yes only four players are named as going to the 'uns this season. The extent of the development work between the clubs though doesn't stop at four season long loans.

"Between the Rhinos and Hunslet, there are currently 35 hours of coaching delivered each week in schools with the new structure hoped to raise that to 150 hours per week. The key targets are to have:

• 100 new schools offering Rugby League

• 100 new fully qualified level 2 coaches

• 1,000 new players in primary schools

• 2 new amateur clubs in the city

• 1,000 new fans

• A new heritage facility at Headingley Carnegie Stadium"

Whilst we may run with a squad of 20 "Hunslet lads" with "only four Leeds lads" the plans above (which are highly impressive indeed) you tell me that in 10 years time we won't be running with all Leeds lads.

I'm not trying to catch you out and I do continue to praise you to high heaven for your work at the club, but this is the end to independence. I don't mind that and I won't even mind when Hetherington opens up his Hunslet and Bramley sections in the City of Leeds RL heritage centre under the Carnegie stand. I may donate an item or two :D

No your right. The sad thing is BH that a Leeds reserve the club doesn't need is eagerly snapped up by Wakefield who really should be producing their own players. Sadly for such a big city with such an RL heritage and no direct opposition from Soccer there's only a couple of Wakefield born lads in SL.

I've just seen the plans for the Hunslet/Leeds tie up and yes only four players are named as going to the 'uns this season. The extent of the development work between the clubs though doesn't stop at four season long loans.

"Between the Rhinos and Hunslet, there are currently 35 hours of coaching delivered each week in schools with the new structure hoped to raise that to 150 hours per week. The key targets are to have:

• 100 new schools offering Rugby League

• 100 new fully qualified level 2 coaches

• 1,000 new players in primary schools

• 2 new amateur clubs in the city

• 1,000 new fans

• A new heritage facility at Headingley Carnegie Stadium"

Whilst we may run with a squad of 20 "Hunslet lads" with "only four Leeds lads" the plans above (which are highly impressive indeed) you tell me that in 10 years time we won't be running with all Leeds lads.

I'm not trying to catch you out and I do continue to praise you to high heaven for your work at the club, but this is the end to independence. I don't mind that and I won't even mind when Hetherington opens up his Hunslet and Bramley sections in the City of Leeds RL heritage centre under the Carnegie stand. I may donate an item or two :D

Who knows what the future holds, the only thing il say in the partnership we have built with Leeds and continue to do so is that its not ALL about players joining on dual reg agreements.There is a clear strategy earmarked by both clubs to help improve the game of rugby league at all levels within the city of Leeds. We have plans in place with Leeds which you have outlined above which are ground breaking and is something Hunslet RLFC are proud to be involved in, it can only be beneficial for our club to be involved in such a great scheme and the benefits of it will not only benefit us as a club and Leeds, but will encourage more and more people in Leeds to play this great sport and create player pathways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keighley    579

Why?

To hold back the tide of dependance?

If you want that the best thing to do is not to get tied up in the first place isn't it.

Fev. Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax have had the integrity to refuse to get involved.

And Keighley even though it might cost us our CC place with the main contenders for the relegation spots having signed on the A team list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

Don't you think that's sad and depressing.? I do.

I will tell you in 20 years time if we are both still around.

If the game is much bigger and in better health I won't find it sad and depressing.

All I want is what is best for Rugby League as a sport in general. Look at the plans for the game in Leeds announced today.

That is NOT depressing. It's very very exciting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith T    361

Fev. Leigh, Sheffield and Halifax have had the integrity to refuse to get involved.

Using your own question what integrity? Did it not affect their integrity last season using dual registered players and loanees from SL clubs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the answer I was looking for. The changes imposed by the rich over the impoverished is kind of a "now you have nothing to do and nowhere to go why not make yourself useful"........

Exactly! Championship clubs are evolving to the environment we find ourselves in, i know for a fact Hunslet RLFC will NEVER be allowed to play in Super League as long as i live, so what do we do just continue as we are hoping that this season isnt our last and roll over and die? or do we try something new to try and make the best of the situation we find our selves in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

Who knows what the future holds, the only thing il say in the partnership we have built with Leeds and continue to do so is that its not ALL about players joining on dual reg agreements.There is a clear strategy earmarked by both clubs to help improve the game of rugby league at all levels within the city of Leeds. We have plans in place with Leeds which you have outlined above which are ground breaking and is something Hunslet RLFC are proud to be involved in, it can only be beneficial for our club to be involved in such a great scheme and the benefits of it will not only benefit us as a club and Leeds, but will encourage more and more people in Leeds to play this great sport and create player pathways.

This is why I have always believed you are doing an excellent job, and believe it all the more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

Using your own question what integrity? Did it not affect their integrity last season using dual registered players and loanees from SL clubs?

Great point Keith, they're not that pure, but of course they are jockeying each other for a 2015 SL place.

They'll sell their grannies for that :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keighley    579

There we go again. Where does it state that Town will be using 4 or 5 different Widnes players every week?

It doesn't. What it says is that any of the Widnes players will be available for Town if they are not in the first team squad for that week. I'm sure that will be the same for any of the SL players in any of the link ups.

Well if Town only had four dual registered loanees there could be no chopping and changing at will. If all the Widnes players are available to Town, it is highly unlikely that the same four will be picked every week. If one of the loanees gets injured or is wanted by Widnes on any given weekend, Workington will just pick some else from the Widnes squad.

It's just logical that this will happen. How can you not see that or are your blue and white spectacles blurring your vision?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
intheshed    1

Its not up to me to point you to the rules of the RFL, My club is well within the rules of the dual reg agreement, that's

The problem is the rules, published on the RFL's website, are those applying to last year. If there is a copy of this years anywhere I'd certainly be hugely grateful for a shove in the right direction to find them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith T    361

And Keighley even though it might cost us our CC place with the main contenders for the relegation spots having signed on the A team list.

Weren't two of your star players in the Championship 1 play-off at Warrington against Town in 2011 dual registered players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Parksider    1,051

I know for a fact Hunslet RLFC will NEVER be allowed to play in Super League as long as I Live.

Then I must get a hit team to bump you off BH!! ;)

Seriously, appreciate the reality quote BH.

Could you just give me the other names on the blacklist? PM them to me if you like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why I have always believed you are doing an excellent job, and believe it all the more.

Thanks Parksider, we are trying our best and its not easy, and we may not succeed, but we will give it all we've got! So we shall again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is the rules, published on the RFL's website, are those applying to last year. If there is a copy of this years anywhere I'd certainly be hugely grateful for a shove in the right direction to find them.

I have to be honest the rules have changed since the initial dual reg agreement was proposed to us at the end of last season, we were under the impression it was a max of 8-9 dual reg with 4-5 only playing at anyone time, hence why the Widnes Workington announcement came as a bit of a shock :)

But if its being sanctioned by the RFL then i can only presume its with in the rules (whatever they maybe) :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keighley    579

I will tell you in 20 years time if we are both still around.

If the game is much bigger and in better health I won't find it sad and depressing.

All I want is what is best for Rugby League as a sport in general. Look at the plans for the game in Leeds announced today.

That is NOT depressing. It's very very exciting.

Yes, those plans are great. Why can't Leeds do that on their own. Why turn Hunslet into an enabler to Leeds ambitions.?

If all CC clubs end up as apendages of SL clubs, I cannot see the game being bigger and better in 20 years.

The key to any success is a bigger league but the aims and ambitions seem to be to stifle all competiton and consolidate all power in the current SL clubs. There will be no expansion to create a bigger, more successful league. The entrenched moguls running SL will not ever share their Sky money to encourage expansion either numerically or geographically.

Even the new expansion clubs in CC1 are looked on as nothing more than player production nurseries for SL teams. There is no intent to ever see them at the top end of the game.

The SL is going well thanks to the new money coming in but it is still a stagnant pond, drying up rather than spreading out. This marginalsing of the current CCb competitons is all about stifling rivals and keeping the upstarts in their place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shaun mc    546

This being a salary cap that doesn't allow any club to build a Superleague side before getting promotion?

The level of the salary cap ain't the issue. Its the salary cap principle that is potentially being thrown out of the window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Derwent    1,249

Is Wigan loanee Gareth Hock included in the deal?

No, Hock is excluded as he's not Widnes's to lend and any overseas player on a visa is also excluded as their visas stipulate they can only play for Widnes.

As a Town fan I'm not ecstatic about the whole partnering system but if it helps us stay up and consolidate, keeping us away from the graveyard that is C1, then I'll put up with it for now. As I said earlier, if we are going to have the system then we might as well exploit and make the best of a bad situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 28th Aug 2017

Rugby League World - Sept 2017