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Derwent

An Interesting Approach to Dual Reg.....

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Great point Keith, they're not that pure, but of course they are jockeying each other for a 2015 SL place.

They'll sell their grannies for that :lol:

And SL clubs will kill off their friends to preserve their elite status as this initiative will show long term.

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Then I must get a hit team to bump you off BH!! ;)

Seriously, appreciate the reality quote BH.

Could you just give me the other names on the blacklist? PM them to me if you like.

I will half of South Leeds with bounty on my head after that quote :) but on a serious note that's the reality of the situation, whether people want to hear it or not, its just how it is, its sad and hard to take, but again, you cant sit back and sulk and feel sorry for your self as a club we have to use that negative as a positive if that makes sense and try and get us to be the best we can at this level. If the Leeds partnership makes us the best club in this competition in 5-10 years time great, if it dosnt then what have we lost, in realty not a lot.

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Weren't two of your star players in the Championship 1 play-off at Warrington against Town in 2011 dual registered players?

I will take your word for it. It won't happen again though, will it. All loanees will be going to the requiste A team.

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When this system was announced after the link up between Leeds and Hunslet, I stated that I was not happy with the idea and that there needed to be some hard and fast rules to regulate it. Since then almost every other link up has had differing benefits for the "junior" partner with such as Batley getting free medical services from the Giants, others using SL club facilities and services on a regular basis, etc, etc.

Having said that I now cannot believe some of the claptrap that is being spouted by some posters. Last season Championship and Championship 1 clubs were allowed to recruit 4 dual registered players as well as take "loanee" players from SL clubs. Doncaster won the Championship 1 title with I believe 3 or 4 dual reg players and many other clubs had 4 dual reg players in their 17 most weeks. Barrow reached the Championship 1 final with 3 or 4 dual registered players!! Did Fev not have some dual reg players? What about Halifax? Leigh?

As it has been said Town can only play 5 players at any one time and I don't believe for one minute that they will either do that or even want to do that each week. We have a good squad of young players with a sprinkling of good experienced players (Jamie Thackray, Ewan Dowes, Peter Lupton, Mark Calderwood) and I'm sure that our coaches will want to play our own lads as much as possible.

We have 23 players signed on but because several had operations during December and are still recuperating, plus we have had 3 players carrying over suspensions from last season, we haven't been able to play a friendly pre-season game. We had a run out at Widnes when we had to include two triallists and play our conditioner on the wing, and I can see that for our first few matches we may require upwards of 3 or 4 players from Widnes.

Our coaches will have identified the positions where we will be weakest and will no doubt look to Widnes for players to cover but I don't see how it is any different to what many clubs did last season, when dual reg players trained with their own SL clubs and came to the Championship club for one session before the weekends match.

So what's in it for Widnes then if you're only going to use three? Fev didn't have any DR players last season as far as I can remember btw

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Well if Town only had four dual registered loanees there could be no chopping and changing at will. If all the Widnes players are available to Town, it is highly unlikely that the same four will be picked every week. If one of the loanees gets injured or is wanted by Widnes on any given weekend, Workington will just pick some else from the Widnes squad.

It's just logical that this will happen. How can you not see that or are your blue and white spectacles blurring your vision?

There's nothing blurring my vision and I am don't intend to get personal like you. I don't like the system. When it first came out i wrote to Jonathon Roberts at the RFL asking him all sorts of questions about it including how does it affect the salary cap for the championship clubs, etc, and I was told that they would monitor the link ups and more or less would play it by ear.

Since then as I said there has been different things in each link up and just to keep you right after the clubs named plus Keighley and Barrow who you missed, Town were the next last to link with anyone. It was pretty obvious that clubs linking up with SL clubs were going to have advantages that could affect the integrity of the competition. The choice then was do Town join or get left behind? Having just spent 10 year in Championship 1 it was a no-brainer. Either we jump in to bed with someone or we bury our heads in the sand and end up back where we came from!!!

I still don't like the system but if the majority are using the system to the best advantage for their own club then I can accept it for us as well.

At the end of last season Town had 4 dual registered / loanee players from SL clubs. One got suspended and the other 3 weren't available for a midweek game at Gatehead. Town had 4 or 5 players out injured and we went to play that game with 10 fit players, brought 2 out of retirement and had put two of the injured players names on the team-sheet to make the 17 so that we didn't get a fine. We lost in what was Gatesheads first win for 60 odd games. so we know more than anyone what it is like when SL clubs don't make their dual reg players available. That shouldn't happen this year.

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The level of the salary cap ain't the issue. Its the salary cap principle that is potentially being thrown out of the window.

All SL players are being given a notional salary cap value for the Championship. A player on say £50k at his SL club may be valued at £20k for Championship purposes. The Championship clubs are not allowed to field a team who's combined value exceeds the salary cap value. You may like to question the notional value of the SL players but the integrity of the absolute value of the team on the field remains intact.

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So the closed shop created in 2006 and the low salary cap placed on CC didn't damage it's value and worth?

If you think this is the start of something, then consider it actually may be part of an end game.

The solution would be to remove the closed shop and increase the salary cap, not to create a minor league player development and supply route as in baseball.

It may well be an end game and it may well end badly for the totality of the game, even SL.

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Jack Briscoe, James Davey, Michael Coady, Zak Hardaker I think have been dual reg, maybe Dave Williams too. Ben Gledhill on loan, to say we've not used the system would be untrue, but we've never had a full squad registered for us that's for sure!

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Interesting to see Dewsbury Rams have just confirmed they have dual registered the ENTIRE Bradford Bulls squad!!

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Jack Briscoe, James Davey, Michael Coady, Zak Hardaker I think have been dual reg, maybe Dave Williams too. Ben Gledhill on loan, to say we've not used the system would be untrue, but we've never had a full squad registered for us that's for sure!

The point is that there is no rule about how many can be registered. York have 5 I believe from Hull, Swinton got 6 from Warrington, Town have in theory got about 24 registered from Widnes but in each case the most that can be used at any one time is 5.

I am not that naive to think that Widnes coach at some point will not ask Town to give certain player(s) a game to give them game time but not every week, that will be down to the Town coaches and who is available firstly at Town and then who is available at Widnes.

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Salford have just announced they've registered the entire Oldham squad*. :lol:

*I'm just trying to raise a laugh, don't take this seriously.

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I will take your word for it. It won't happen again though, will it. All loanees will be going to the requiste A team.

That doesnt answer his question. Were you happy with the systems in place when you beat Workington in the final at Warrington with 2 dual reg players?

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Exactly! Championship clubs are evolving to the environment we find ourselves in, i know for a fact Hunslet RLFC will NEVER be allowed to play in Super League as long as i live, so what do we do just continue as we are hoping that this season isnt our last and roll over and die? or do we try something new to try and make the best of the situation we find our selves in.

The key there is the word "allowed". The team may as well die if they are just a lower rung in the Leeds Rhinos hierarchy. What's the point of existing ? Let Leeds fully fund their own ambitions. this is just a ploy to get a free ground, many costs borne by Hunslet and a way of getting their meagre CC money grant to go to aiding and abetting Leeds ambitions.

Hunslet will be so interwined and symbiotically meshed with Leeds that there is no way they could ever get to a position tp be "allowed" to challenge for a SL place.

This might be not such a bad thing for Hunslet as their fan base is gone.

However, for York, Doncaster, Barrow,Oldham, Rochdale and the other Cumbrian clubs, it is a bad thing. They should be "allowed" to develop to be potential SL clubs in their areas and, if capable, be "allowed" to apply for SL but this will never happen if they are joined at the hip and totally dependent on SL organisations for players, coaching staffs and any elevation to SL would damage the cosy relationship of dominance and dependence that the SL clubs have created.

If we had p and r returned and one of the A teams was going for promotion and the parent SL club was heading for relegation, the A team would be sabotaged big time and they would not be "allowed" to impact on the parent club.

If Featherstone were the Wakefield A team their present emergence as a potential SL rival to Wakefield would never, never, have been allowed to happen and the sponsors and investors and ground improvements they have managed to find and create would not have happened. No body is going to invest in an A team.

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Jack Briscoe, James Davey, Michael Coady, Zak Hardaker I think have been dual reg, maybe Dave Williams too. Ben Gledhill on loan, to say we've not used the system would be untrue, but we've never had a full squad registered for us that's for sure!

I know we've used it in the past but only in isolated cases as your list shows and it was a regulated system, this is just madness. No one's been able to say what's in it for the SL clubs if only five players, selected exclusively by the CClubs coach, can take the field. For the SL clubs to benefit, the number of players will have increase or its of no value to them.

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They should be "allowed" to develop to be potential SL clubs in their areas and, if capable, be "allowed" to apply for SL but this will never happen if they are joined at the hip and totally dependent on SL organisations for players, coaching staffs and any elevation to SL would damage the cosy relationship of dominance and dependence that the SL clubs have created.

Look, the majority (if not all) of the clubs you mention have no chance of ever being a super league club unless they get lucky and find a very generous benefactor, this kind of link up is neither going to harm or help that situation. I dont like the dual reg thing, but the fact is any club in our situation choosing not to do it while others do leave themselves a massive battle to stay up. The other problem for a club like Workington is historically we have had more chance getting a player to come from Australia or NZ than Lancashire or Yorkshire, so we have to do whatever we can to get better players to join our fight. This is currently one way we can do this, its now down to the coaches to decide how they will use this situation without hindering our chances.

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There's nothing blurring my vision and I am don't intend to get personal like you. I don't like the system. When it first came out i wrote to Jonathon Roberts at the RFL asking him all sorts of questions about it including how does it affect the salary cap for the championship clubs, etc, and I was told that they would monitor the link ups and more or less would play it by ear.

Since then as I said there has been different things in each link up and just to keep you right after the clubs named plus Keighley and Barrow who you missed, Town were the next last to link with anyone. It was pretty obvious that clubs linking up with SL clubs were going to have advantages that could affect the integrity of the competition. The choice then was do Town join or get left behind? Having just spent 10 year in Championship 1 it was a no-brainer. Either we jump in to bed with someone or we bury our heads in the sand and end up back where we came from!!!

I still don't like the system but if the majority are using the system to the best advantage for their own club then I can accept it for us as well.

At the end of last season Town had 4 dual registered / loanee players from SL clubs. One got suspended and the other 3 weren't available for a midweek game at Gatehead. Town had 4 or 5 players out injured and we went to play that game with 10 fit players, brought 2 out of retirement and had put two of the injured players names on the team-sheet to make the 17 so that we didn't get a fine. We lost in what was Gatesheads first win for 60 odd games. so we know more than anyone what it is like when SL clubs don't make their dual reg players available. That shouldn't happen this year.

Well, I see where "when in Rome" argument comes from but two things junp out at me from your post. If all the players had been Town players, then they probably would have been available for a midweek game at Gateshead.

The second is that if Gateshead had been usuing dual registered loanees , Workington may have lost regardless. Eventually, if all Cc clubs are using loanees then they will cnacel each otherv out head to head on the field but the CC clubs will still be too reliant on SL clubs and will have no independent will to improve and progress, a kind of Stockholm syndrome of RL.

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Salford have just announced they've registered the entire Oldham squad*. :lol:

*I'm just trying to raise a laugh, don't take this seriously.

:lol: good one!

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Come on Swinton, hope the five players you're allowed from Wires get you top of the league!!

If not, hope the shared resources help improve your club, bring on the lions talented players and make a real effort on and off the field.

Here's to Swinton having stability, financial strength and being able to compete with the likes of fax, fev, Leigh etc

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A step too far i think by Workington

How can it be a step to far by workington? Workington are still playing by the rules, and are exploiting them to the maximum so i dont know how you or any one can blame them?

I think you mean its a step to far by the (rlf)? by allowing this to happen, is it not?

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Come on Swinton, hope the five players you're allowed from Wires get you top of the league!!

If not, hope the shared resources help improve your club, bring on the lions talented players and make a real effort on and off the field.

Here's to Swinton having stability, financial strength and being able to compete with the likes of fax, fev, Leigh etc

Amen. :)

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Widnes and Workington have today announced that the full Widnes first team squad will be dual registered with Workington. Instead of having 5 allocated players, after Widnes have named their 18 man SL squad each week Town will be free to choose any 5 of the remainder of the Widnes squad (apart from injured players of course). It's a novel approach and one which will serve both partners well.

This may actually turn out to be a very good development as it might expose the complete inadequacy of the current set-up and its need to be torn up and thought through properly.

Maybe common sense will prevail....................maybe!

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Salford have just announced they've registered the entire Oldham squad*. :lol:

*I'm just trying to raise a laugh, don't take this seriously.

We would welcome them at this stage !

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Come on Swinton, hope the five players you're allowed from Wires get you top of the league!!

If not, hope the shared resources help improve your club, bring on the lions talented players and make a real effort on and off the field.

Here's to Swinton having stability, financial strength and being able to compete with the likes of fax, fev, Leigh etc

All at the expense of the integrity of the second highest standard RL league in europe. You probably have a right to praise Swinton for the move as it saves your club 100k a year.

Just on another point also let's say Widnes didn't make it into the end of season play offs (they likely won't) and Workington do. The RFL surely can't block Widnes' 5 best players playing for Workington as they are registered as their own players for the season.

So clubs shouldn't really think about building their OWN squad they should be thinking about which SL squad will have the highest standard of players who haven't made the play offs, tough decision mind but then again that's what sport is all about...

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