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Derwent

An Interesting Approach to Dual Reg.....

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Of course Swinton finances are relevant, can they afford the salaries of the DR players??

Swinton have to bring their own through the system, last time I went to a rugby match a team needed 17 players not 5

I doubt Swinton will be paying the wages. They arnt going to be paying 150k for these 5 players which wouldn't be far off the salary of 5 Wire fringe players. Firstly it would end up with them going over their salary cap so its likely it will be paid by Wire.

They won't bring their 'own' through. Theyve already got a squad, and they've got Wire to depend on for future players so no need to produce their own.

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is any sl club financially viable???

Yes, Leeds, Wire, Wigan, Saints, Cats, Fartown, Bradford, Wakey, Hull, hopefully Salford, Widnes, and maybe Toulouse.

This is why they have a restrictive Superleague.

Not enough resources

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1. He has not trebled the fan base in Leeds.

2. How has he created a thriving amateur scene in the City.

1 You go look up the attendances. 3 x more people pay to watch RL in Leeds now than 40 years ago.

2. You look up the amateur scene 40 years ago and compare it with today.One was dying the other thriving.

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Where are the players going to come from?

I don't know. That was a wish from another poster and imwould love to see it. I didn't say it was about to happen.

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They won't bring their 'own' through. Theyve already got a squad, and they've got Wire to depend on for future players so no need to produce their own.

They CAN'T bring their own through. Name me the junior clubs in Swinton.

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I don't know.

Nor does Barrow Raiders Kid, but you both go on as though clubs like Swinton and Hunslet just need to get their act together and they'll be a Wigan or a Leeds again.

Why don't you both go and have a look at just how sparse RL is in terms of players and fans in so many so called RL areas.

Stop looking through the history books and assuming these clubs can just do it all again.

For so many clubs it's gone, for so many others it never happened in the first place.

We have to face reality and work to it.

And if you don't like it, tough, the RFL & SLE are manipulating things that way.

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is any sl club financially viable???

Yes.

Next question.

but the question wasn't about viability of clubs so your comment was pointless.

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I doubt Swinton will be paying the wages. They arnt going to be paying 150k for these 5 players which wouldn't be far off the salary of 5 Wire fringe players. Firstly it would end up with them going over their salary cap so its likely it will be paid by Wire.

They won't bring their 'own' through. Theyve already got a squad, and they've got Wire to depend on for future players so no need to produce their own.

The RFL for the purposes of the salary cap will allocate a notional "value" for each SL player for games they play in the Championships, so once again you are looking for things that are not there.

Clubs can still bring through their own players with or without dual registered players. Town brought in 3 players last year from the amateur ranks and one went on to play for scotland at the end of the season. His younger brother has signed up this year, so development can still go on.

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Yes.

Next question.

but the question wasn't about viability of clubs so your comment was pointless.

yes with the input of wealthy owners.

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1 You go look up the attendances. 3 x more people pay to watch RL in Leeds now than 40 years ago.

2. You look up the amateur scene 40 years ago and compare it with today.One was dying the other thriving.

This was done on another thread and if you go back to the late 50s and early 60's that proves not to be the case. 40 years ago would be in the mid 60s and things were not so good then so in that cpmparison you woud be right.

If you go back even earlier, amateur RL was on its deathbed. BARLA revived it. The RFL have done it recently via dev officers etc. What hetherington has to do with it i don't know.

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Why do we always end up talking about Leeds and Hunslet???

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Yes with the input of wealthy owners.

In some case not in others and in any event the cap can be adjusted so that all clubs are financially viable.

There's no reason why come 2015 Superleague won't have an income to match expenditure.

However if we want to return to the past and have 30 clubs in SL then they'll all go bust.

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This was done on another thread and if you go back to the late 50s and early 60's that proves not to be the case. 40 years ago would be in the mid 60s and things were not so good then so in that cpmparison you woud be right.

If you go back even earlier, amateur RL was on its deathbed. BARLA revived it. The RFL have done it recently via dev officers etc. What hetherington has to do with it i don't know.

I do not know what you are on about, for the last time more people watch RL in Leeds and more people play RL in Leeds than for many a year, and that could get better under the plans of the guy who achieved it.

If you don't like it lump it but I'm not giving you the time to explain the obvious.

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Why do we always end up talking about Leeds and Hunslet???

Because it's the model for forcing merger by stealth.

It's worked a treat.

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yes with the input of wealthy owners.

It has always been so.

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1 You go look up the attendances. 3 x more people pay to watch RL in Leeds now than 40 years ago.

2. You look up the amateur scene 40 years ago and compare it with today.One was dying the other thriving.

Leeds were attracting large crowds more than 15 years ago when Hetherington was still at Sheffield.

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It has always been so.

are there any clubs in sl that dont rely on a wealthy owners? just a question as you seem very knowledgeable and im interested, :rolleyes: edit: or any pro clubs for that matter?

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Nor does Barrow Raiders Kid, but you both go on as though clubs like Swinton and Hunslet just need to get their act together and they'll be a Wigan or a Leeds again.

Why don't you both go and have a look at just how sparse RL is in terms of players and fans in so many so called RL areas.

Stop looking through the history books and assuming these clubs can just do it all again.

For so many clubs it's gone, for so many others it never happened in the first place.

We have to face reality and work to it.

And if you don't like it, tough, the RFL & SLE are manipulating things that way.

Firstly how am I saying that Hunslet and Swinton are going to become Leeds and Wigan? I haven't implied anything like that at all. I don't think I've actually mentioned anything on this thread to do with Hunslet and Swinton developing as clubs.

Then you tell me to stop looking at the history books and saying these teams can be what they once were. I don't have a clue what these teams were I don't read much about the history, for the large part its irrelevant to how we should do things now.

My point is it ruins the integrity of the competition. Which it clearly does. I didn't originally make the point of Swinton bringing players through there own ameteur game, PMJ Wires did. When I said build a squad it didn't necessarily mean from the Swinton area. We managed too sign players from elsewhere and build a squad. Swinton managed too have a squad last season so why can't they have one next season?

I don't want to get into a debate about the ameteur background of certain clubs as I know barely anything about it compared to yourselves. But clubs going into these arrangements just ruins the competition. The competition in the main part is what people turn up to games for, and if that gets ruined then why are people going to come watch. Its just going to come across as a mockery too other fans looking in on the game.

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Leeds were attracting large crowds more than 15 years ago when Hetherington was still at Sheffield.

Leeds ended the old first division in 1995 on 12,516 fans the three clubs averaged 14,126 between them.

Last year Leeds averaged 14526 and Hunslet 494. Total 15,020.

So I have to concede that Hetherington has not made fantastic strides in terms of pulling more fans in in Leeds per se.

Another 1.000 fans.

It's complicated, but we see three clubs (almost) become one and that hasn't affected the fanbase in a negative manner. there's an increase but not that great.

Hetherington's great achievement is the move to producing his own players (by far) so you have a great point.

My point is that if we want RL in Leeds to be profitable, successful, and attractive to the kids of Leeds and ultimately to see the RL culture expand, it's best done with one club not three trying to cut each others throats.

Equally Wigan ended semi pro RL on 14,195 and have managed to build that to 15,208.

Does this show that RL has a limited audience? I think so. How may it get a bigger audience?

By building a bigger RL culture in the community which Hetherington is trying to do.

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are there any clubs in sl that dont rely on a wealthy owners? just a question as you seem very knowledgeable and im interested, :rolleyes: edit: or any pro clubs for that matter?

You miss the point, clubs have always bought success, by wealthy individual owners, by consortium or by being members clubs who borrowed off a brewery and then couldn't afford to pay it back.

Sugar daddy is a new term, not a new idea. At one time the sugar daddy was the local chippy owner who could afford to play with a rugby team getting £100 a win £20 a lose, today's sugar daddies have more to lose, but they are doing exactly the same.

MONEY HAS ALWAYS, ABSOLUTELY ALWAYS TALKED IN RL, AND ALL PRO SPORT.

If you think otherwise you must be 150 years old.

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My point is it ruins the integrity of the competition. Which it clearly does. I didn't originally make the point of Swinton bringing players through there own ameteur game, PMJ Wires did. When I said build a squad it didn't necessarily mean from the Swinton area. We managed too sign players from elsewhere and build a squad. Swinton managed too have a squad last season so why can't they have one next season?

I don't want to get into a debate about the ameteur background of certain clubs as I know barely anything about it compared to yourselves. But clubs going into these arrangements just ruins the competition. The competition in the main part is what people turn up to games for, and if that gets ruined then why are people going to come watch. Its just going to come across as a mockery too other fans looking in on the game.

I take your point.

In tying up with SL clubs to survive those CC clubs who do this may end up leaving the CC clubs who do not do this stranded.

But can you assume?

Should you not wait and see??

Will CC be headed by independent clubs like Fev, Barrow and Keighley who may have gone on to murder the "A" teams of SL clubs??

Life may be OK for you, you may still be in the queue for SL. In terms of fans walking away I'm not sure fans care beyond are their club beating whatever opposition is put in front of them??

As for me citing you over the why don't Swinton develop their own players, I do apologise for quoting you. I just wanted to make the point across the board that you can't be an professional club if you don't have the money, fans or players.

It's much like saying why can't Harrogate, Kendal or Runcorn one day be a professional premiership soccer club...

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You miss the point, clubs have always bought success, by wealthy individual owners, by consortium or by being members clubs who borrowed off a brewery and then couldn't afford to pay it back.

Sugar daddy is a new term, not a new idea. At one time the sugar daddy was the local chippy owner who could afford to play with a rugby team getting £100 a win £20 a lose, today's sugar daddies have more to lose, but they are doing exactly the same.

MONEY HAS ALWAYS, ABSOLUTELY ALWAYS TALKED IN RL, AND ALL PRO SPORT.

If you think otherwise you must be 150 years old.

WOW! What was the question i asked?

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are there any clubs in sl that dont rely on a wealthy owners? just a question as you seem very knowledgeable and im interested, :rolleyes:

I'd say Saints, Wire, Leeds, Wigan do not rely on wealthy owners today. Having said that wealthy owners got a couple of them into that self sustaining position.

Conversely Cas & Salford (as they stand) don't rely on wealthy owners but this may ruin them.

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Just been to watch the Swinton revolution at the snow dome tonight, 9 Wire lads in the side - it's going to get a bit daft imo.

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