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Coalition government not sure whether bears defecate in the woods

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Not many folk know that I've got Mo Lindsay chained up in my attic.

they do now.

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Maurauder, it isn't quite that simple, Germany is in the Euro but has even lower interest rates. It is not much to do with the Euro and everything to do with the perceived risk of default.

Germany has low interest rates and is an economic success because of the Euro - they have been the big beneficiary. Italy and Spain (and Greece) have been the big losers. It means that VW's cars compete on a level playing field with FIAT. In the past if Italy wasn't competitive they'd devalue the lira. That's how the excchange rate just before the Euro came in was 3000 lira to the pound. In 1978 the first time I went to italy it was 1600. In my previous employment I used to have quite a lot of dealings with Italy. . In my business Italy led the field for decades - now because of the disadvantage of the Euro they're losing out to Korea and China in finished steel engineering products.They hate the euro They hated it as far back as 2005. I'm sure if they could find a way out they would - but Germany don't want that - they have too much to lose.

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Germany has low interest rates and is an economic success because of the Euro - they have been the big beneficiary. Italy and Spain (and Greece) have been the big losers. It means that VW's cars compete on a level playing field with FIAT. In the past if Italy wasn't competitive they'd devalue the lira. That's how the excchange rate just before the Euro came in was 3000 lira to the pound. In 1978 the first time I went to italy it was 1600. In my previous employment I used to have quite a lot of dealings with Italy. . In my business Italy led the field for decades - now because of the disadvantage of the Euro they're losing out to Korea and China in finished steel engineering products.They hate the euro They hated it as far back as 2005. I'm sure if they could find a way out they would - but Germany don't want that - they have too much to lose.

Isn't odd then that a recent documentary showed that the people of the country suffering the most at the moment, Greece, want to stay in the Euro.

On my many recent visits to Greece and chatting to the locals they almost all want to stick with the Euro, they see more advantages from being in than being out despite their recent troubles.

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Germany has low interest rates and is an economic success because of the Euro - they have been the big beneficiary. Italy and Spain (and Greece) have been the big losers. It means that VW's cars compete on a level playing field with FIAT. In the past if Italy wasn't competitive they'd devalue the lira. That's how the excchange rate just before the Euro came in was 3000 lira to the pound. In 1978 the first time I went to italy it was 1600. In my previous employment I used to have quite a lot of dealings with Italy. . In my business Italy led the field for decades - now because of the disadvantage of the Euro they're losing out to Korea and China in finished steel engineering products.They hate the euro They hated it as far back as 2005. I'm sure if they could find a way out they would - but Germany don't want that - they have too much to lose.

I'm in Italy right now and I last went to the Fiat plant yesterday.

Strangely enough Italians do not hate the Euro. And Fiat are doing very well in places like Brazil and China, just not in Europe because of the crisis. Again production has largely moved overseas with very little going on in Turin.

The problem Fiat have is that they produce budget cars rather than middle-of-the-range ones as well as higher end cars like Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa Romeo. The cheaper ones have to battle against imports from poor countries whilst the top end ones are never going to be mass sellers. VW are fortunate enough to make the right kind of car to benefit from the times we find ourselves in.

Fiat have been in trouble for decades and survived this long on government bailouts.

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Not many folk know that I've got Mo Lindsay chained up in my attic.

I've always suspected you'd be into that kind of stuff. :unsure:

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Germany has low interest rates and is an economic success because of the Euro - they have been the big beneficiary. Italy and Spain (and Greece) have been the big losers. It means that VW's cars compete on a level playing field with FIAT. In the past if Italy wasn't competitive they'd devalue the lira. That's how the excchange rate just before the Euro came in was 3000 lira to the pound. In 1978 the first time I went to italy it was 1600. In my previous employment I used to have quite a lot of dealings with Italy. . In my business Italy led the field for decades - now because of the disadvantage of the Euro they're losing out to Korea and China in finished steel engineering products.They hate the euro They hated it as far back as 2005. I'm sure if they could find a way out they would - but Germany don't want that - they have too much to lose.

Spot on if the euro wasn't here the deusch mark would be too strong for German exports to compete. The strong euro economies are benefiting from the weaker ones by the virtue of a suppressed currency value, enabling their manufacturing to be more competeuve for export.

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I'm in Italy right now and I last went to the Fiat plant yesterday.

Strangely enough Italians do not hate the Euro. And Fiat are doing very well in places like Brazil and China, just not in Europe because of the crisis. Again production has largely moved overseas with very little going on in Turin.

How many actual working Italians did you speak to as opposed to management geeks? As I said in my earlier post up to three years ago I had regular phone contact with Italy and used to visit 2/3 three times a year on business plus holidays. The general attitude among ordinary working Italians was that the Euro had made them poorer and that they would be better off without it. e.g Italians like to eat out - before the Euro the average Italian could afford to take his family out once a week for a substantial meal - now he's lucky if he can afford to take them for a pizza. This is a direct quote from a long standing Italian friend of mine.

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How many actual working Italians did you speak to as opposed to management geeks? As I said in my earlier post up to three years ago I had regular phone contact with Italy and used to visit 2/3 three times a year on business plus holidays. The general attitude among ordinary working Italians was that the Euro had made them poorer and that they would be better off without it. e.g Italians like to eat out - before the Euro the average Italian could afford to take his family out once a week for a substantial meal - now he's lucky if he can afford to take them for a pizza. This is a direct quote from a long standing Italian friend of mine.

My students are all "management geeks" though I do work with normal people.

I agree with you that everybody says that the Euro made life expensive but at the same time nobody wants to leave it.

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I agree with you that everybody says that the Euro made life expensive but at the same time nobody wants to leave it.

That pretty much sums up the general attitude here in Spain too.

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Not many folk know that I've got Mo Lindsay chained up in my attic.

I've always suspected you'd be into that kind of stuff. :unsure:

I've always suspected Mo might be too.... :ph34r:

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That pretty much sums up the general attitude here in Spain too.

Indeed.

Maybe people complained a lot when it first came in but they've got used to it warts and all in the meantime.

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Best way to stimulate the economy; remove Osborne.

That's what I think. There's no way that the government can do a U turn on this policy with Osborne still as chancellor. There's no way Osborne can change policy, Cameron can just if he blames Osborne and removes him. Put him in charge of Northern Ireland that'll learn 'im!

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My students are all "management geeks" though I do work with normal people.

I agree with you that everybody says that the Euro made life expensive but at the same time nobody wants to leave it.

Is it a case of people trusting the EU slightly more than the government?

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Is it a case of people trusting the EU slightly more than the government?

I think it's similar to decimalisation. People say that this caused "rounding up" of prices but nobody wanted to go back to the old money a decade later. There is simply too much invested in the Euro for a change to be contemplated.

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I think it's similar to decimalisation. People say that this caused "rounding up" of prices but nobody wanted to go back to the old money a decade later. There is simply too much invested in the Euro for a change to be contemplated.

Except that by converting to decimalisation change was contemplated, having had a system in operation that had far more invested in it than the few decades 'invested' in the EU (which of course has changed beyond recognition to the EEC we joined originally). Just because we have invested in something doesn't mean we shouldn't review it periodically, including giving consideration to whether it still meets our needs.

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Is it a case of people trusting the EU slightly more than the government?

Many a true word, etc. If you lived in Greece, who would you trust, the EU or any of the shiftless liars they've had for years? Got it in one!

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Except that by converting to decimalisation change was contemplated, having had a system in operation that had far more invested in it than the few decades 'invested' in the EU (which of course has changed beyond recognition to the EEC we joined originally). Just because we have invested in something doesn't mean we shouldn't review it periodically, including giving consideration to whether it still meets our needs.

I'm not saying that the Italians are right, I'm just saying that's the way that they see it.

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