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Barnie

what do you really want?

79 posts in this topic

I personally are fed up with all the moaning surrounding the partnership with Wire. to me it seems sensible to use this to strengthen our squad on the cheap. lets face it even if we signed them all on permanent deals a SL club could cherry pick them on the cheap.

So having nailed my colours to the mast its over to you. to me it seems simple there are only 3 other options.

1) take the moral high ground, have no DRs lack quality and have to dig deep to combat this risk financial meltdown and invest heavily in the squad. after all we dont have a ming the merciless look-a-like begging us to let him throw money at us.

2)Take the moral highground, have no DRs dont invest get relegated and spend years in C1 playing oxford and other joke teams.

3) pull the shutters down and call it a day.

Id rather have things the way they are than any of these other options.

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I personally are fed up with all the moaning surrounding the partnership with Wire. to me it seems sensible to use this to strengthen our squad on the cheap. lets face it even if we signed them all on permanent deals a SL club could cherry pick them on the cheap.

So having nailed my colours to the mast its over to you. to me it seems simple there are only 3 other options.

1) take the moral high ground, have no DRs lack quality and have to dig deep to combat this risk financial meltdown and invest heavily in the squad. after all we dont have a ming the merciless look-a-like begging us to let him throw money at us.

2)Take the moral highground, have no DRs dont invest get relegated and spend years in C1 playing oxford and other joke teams.

3) pull the shutters down and call it a day.

Id rather have things the way they are than any of these other options.

All we are doing is playing to the rules which every other club can and which some are doing.

I wonder how many grumbles there would be if we had sat on the fence and not linked with any club. In the current state most players are only ever signed for one year with many moving on for a number of reasons, sadly loyalty seems a thing of the past where we had players serving the same club through their career. With that in mind does it matter if we borrow another teams players.

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I agree with your post Barnie. Let's get on with it!

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I would use whatever is legally available to maintain and improve the club and team. Getting results is important and with no big money financier coming forward, the only way way to realise our aspirations.

Winning builds confidence and experience which in turn attracts support and players. Coupled with quality management we are on the right track, it just takes time......but this also depends on consistency in all areas, that is one area we have fallen down at in the past.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/lions-offer-a-lifeline-1-5352558

Just kidding!

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Bet I just got them more hits on their site than they have had for months, and they will never understand why lol

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I agree with Barnie,at last a bit of reality.

My outlook has always been smile and get on with it.

Ian,very funny!

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I agree with Barnie,at last a bit of reality.

My outlook has always been smile and get on with it.

Ian,very funny!

Those two statements sum it up Mark - this is 2013 and the reality of rugby league is what we have (Dual Registration, Super League Franchise etc. etc etc.) - we either smile and get on with it or walk away from the game - this is not forgetting your principles but accepting the consequence of a changing society.

As a passionate Swinton supporter for a long, long time I have experienced the ups and downs of rugby league - but I will simply relate to this - I worked for 15 years or so for a large company in Wigan, as you will appreciate this was a rugby league dominated environment - I worked alongside mainly Wigan, St. Helens, Warrington and Leigh supporters and as I was aware I being the only Swinton supporter - but the great thing that in all our organised trips to Wembley, Old Trafford, International matches etc I was a member of the Rugby League family - as now being retired I can reflect on those times with great pleasure - so without John Kidd and his support of this club, I may not have had a club to support and would have felt left out.

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Those two statements sum it up Mark - this is 2013 and the reality of rugby league is what we have (Dual Registration, Super League Franchise etc. etc etc.) - we either smile and get on with it or walk away from the game - this is not forgetting your principles but accepting the consequence of a changing society.

As a passionate Swinton supporter for a long, long time I have experienced the ups and downs of rugby league - but I will simply relate to this - I worked for 15 years or so for a large company in Wigan, as you will appreciate this was a rugby league dominated environment - I worked alongside mainly Wigan, St. Helens, Warrington and Leigh supporters and as I was aware I being the only Swinton supporter - but the great thing that in all our organised trips to Wembley, Old Trafford, International matches etc I was a member of the Rugby League family - as now being retired I can reflect on those times with great pleasure - so without John Kidd and his support of this club, I may not have had a club to support and would have felt left out.

You write some heartfelt stuff my friend. Lovely to read .

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I would prefer not to have the concept of Dual Registered players at all. The rules as they have been framed for this season:

- Have not been put in place to benefit Championship clubs (when was the last time the RFL did anything of that nature?). The true driving force is to assist Super League clubs by allowing them to cut costs while retaining the registrations of young players that would otherwise have to be released. This is all about SL clubs having their cake and eating it.

- Undermine the credibility of the Championship. Apparently next week's opponents Workington are going to work the rules so they effectively soak up any slack in the Widnes first team squad. Up there a 12 month contract may start to look like an incredibly long term relationship!

And yes I fully appreciate this goes beyond Swinton Lions. For what its worth I think what has happened with Rochdale Hornets (where a Saints youth coach has been appointed Hornets first team coach) is absolutely horrific. If that isn't a long established name being levered towards status of a feeder club I don't know what is.

We are gravitating evermore towards the Aussie system of an untouchable franchised top division and feeder leagues. Just because it is being steadily imposed doesn't mean I have to like it. We have seen the RFL's sheepishness in following all things Australian many times, for me a lot of the changes don't suit UK sporting culture and this is a step too far.

Perhaps I will get a bit more used to the idea as time goes by, but in the two games so far supporting the side has felt different due to the presence of so many players in the side that belong first and foremost to another club. To me it feels like the identity of the side has changed. If we were to take the final step of playing at the Halliwell Jones it would be exactly the same scenario as Bramley went through with Leeds and we know what the end result of that was.

I feel sorry for Steve McCormack. The side he put together last season showed real promise. The way to achieve success is to retain the best players and each year add a bit of quality. Instead he is having to start again virtually from scratch with a host of players that in all likelihood he won't have long to work with, belong to another club and should he have a positive impact on them they will be off pronto. I fear 50% of the side will now change every season - that's not a formula to make progress.

The club has pushed to the full limit of the new rules and arguably a bit beyond that with the likes of Hulme and Birkett also joining. It didn't have to do so. There was a degree of choice involved. The more ambitious Championship clubs have said "non".

For me it all boils down to a fundamental question: Have we lost the belief that Swinton Lions can ever become a bigger club ever again?

For that the club needs to grow its sustainable inherent income streams. My belief is that the club is currently operating at nowhere near its full potential.

At the moment, with a total lack of tangible progress with Agecroft the key factor, none of that is being addressed - the focus is purely on minimising overheads.

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I never lose belief but to be a bigger club again will be a massive struggle. However we do have a club to support so be a little happy? We have never been a truly big club in all the time I have been a supporter....some 46 yrs, but I still support and am passionate about e club. I hope Phill, a lot.

I truly wish either everyone had your time, and I presume from your posts, ability to set up inherent revenue streams and progress planning. All at a time of financial constraint and uncertainty and with a support base of at best a few hundred souls.

I just wish you would be a little positive and less confrontational.

The title of the thread is "what do you really want?" Well I really want a financially secure club playing at a community facility in or as near M27 as possible with a regular grounded support base with a team playing open honest rugby.

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Swinton will struggle to put a team out half the squad will walk the players have trained and grafted all winter for what to see there places taken by Warrington players who no matter how good or bad will play every week so put yourself in there boots if it was happening to you at work how would you feel. These players have been stop from plying there trade for the sake of Warrington salary cap and R.F.L.just wanting super league and using the championship as a feeder league for this purpose only soon we will all lose our identity we all will have to sign up to a super league club or be kicked out of the league .i think as fans we should stand up and support the clubs identity and the players who signed for SWINTON LIONS not Warrington these lads will all be lost to the game if we don't back them all for the gain of Warrington wolves

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Swinton will struggle to put a team out half the squad will walk the players have trained and grafted all winter for what to see there places taken by Warrington players who no matter how good or bad will play every week so put yourself in there boots if it was happening to you at work how would you feel. These players have been stop from plying there trade for the sake of Warrington salary cap and R.F.L.just wanting super league and using the championship as a feeder league for this purpose only soon we will all lose our identity we all will have to sign up to a super league club or be kicked out of the league .i think as fans we should stand up and support the clubs identity and the players who signed for SWINTON LIONS not Warrington these lads will all be lost to the game if we don't back them all for the gain of Warrington wolves

Ive been doing my job for twenty years. Despite government cutbacks and constant and very real attacks ftom within and without I still do it to the best of my ability. It is however a young mans job so I keep myself fit..work to my strength. .use my experience.

When I realise the newer younger men are doing better than me and im no longer near the top performer..I sulk like a baby and go home....oh no I dont because im getting paid...

I knuckle down and try a bit harder again to prove ive still got it.

Our players are not big babies.

We wont have any identity at all if we go bust. We are not in a position of strength to pick and choose how we progress. The dual reg is happening. It might end up as a disaster but we need to MAN UP

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY CHEER UP!

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You miss the point what iam saying the players can burst a gut get themselves super fit training and still will not be selected so is this fair and no they are not babies they are men who want to play for SWINTON and as for getting paid most of the team only get paid if they play this is a fact ask them I HAVE so you sit back say nothing and let the players go iam sure they will thank you for your support but never mind you can always go watching Warrington next season

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Without promotion and relegation, any decent players in the championship will end up at a SL club, or at the very least top CC club. It's been the same for years. Or maybe we should give calls to Al Hurst, Tom Armstrong, Phil Joseph, Adam Highson etc and talk to them about loyalty. It's nonsense, if players can make a living from playing SL or high level CC then they will (and good luck to them), there's nothing we can do about it.

Also, don't talk nonsense about losing identity, if you believed that you'd have stopped going as soon as Station Road was sold from beneath us.

Also, there wasn't too much moaning when Walker, Forster and co were playing pivotal roles for us last season.

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Ok I will have a friendly bet that we will struggle to put a team out this season nobody will want to sign for us knowing they are playing second fiddle to Warrington players the squad is small now and will get smaller so we will end up looking at players in the amateur game to make the squad up I have been a swinton fan for 50 years a and it saddens me to watch us being used by warrington

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I think we can only use a maximum of five dual reg players per game? How many did we have last season.Also I cannot believe that a Coach of Steve MCCormacks stature would let another club dictate which players he has to select! the situation is not ideal but if we elected to Go it alone and get battered every week we'd be slaughtered for not joining in.

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I think that with the Warrington lads on board we have a fighting chance of staying up. Without them, I wouldn't be so confident. It's not ideal but survival is all that matters this season, we cannot go down to that awful CC1.

Not sure if it's 5 or 6 players we can have in our 17. Either way, how do people think we'll shape up against Town on Sunday?

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Where is all this money coming from to fund a full squad of world beaters. lets face it on crowds of 800 or so we cannot challenge for the playoffs let alone promotion, if that is ever reintroduced.

its a case of either putting the money in yourself to pay for the rest of the squad or being happy to have a team to support.

in conclusion, put up or shut up!

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Truely amazing opinions there. If I was the chairman of the club i'd be sorely tempted to close shop and walk away.

Haven't we had a couple of meetings where the situation of the Warrington link was explained, welcomed by our head coach due to the better training facilities and players whom may be at his disposal and a time for fans to air any concerns. At both those meetings I recall the mood was cordial and certainly I don't recall any of the doubts that have surfaced on here being raised then.

Yet here we are less than a week away and some people's opinions are it will be a disaster. As someone put had Swinton sat on the fence and say Warrington had gone in with Leigh, I can imagine the tone towards the club in that situation.

An ideal world would allow us to bring our own talent through the ranks,well it ain't been ideal for many years. If this move allows the clubs finances to remain solvent then quite frankly I'm all for it,especially if any savings are channelled into the Agecroft project and I guess time will tell on that score.

To have talk of the team disintegrating part way through the season is frankly an astonishing claim when you look at the efforts of Steve Mc and the coaching team. I believe if Steve was in anyway unhappy at the link he would walk, the fact he hasn't endorses him belief in the set up.

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You miss the point what iam saying the players can burst a gut get themselves super fit training and still will not be selected so is this fair and no they are not babies they are men who want to play for SWINTON and as for getting paid most of the team only get paid if they play this is a fact ask them I HAVE so you sit back say nothing and let the players go iam sure they will thank you for your support but never mind you can always go watching Warrington next season

I knew id miss the point.

My support has been unflinching for 43 years.

And I guess now what you're saying our own squad is too big!

I still think the players will not behave in such a childish way. And we've played three friendlies ans everyone has featured?

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The club has potential to attract considerably more than circa 800 to a home match. I find it depressing that some contributors seem to believe this is a glass ceiling of support.

I also wonder if it came to the Lions formally operating as Warrington Wolves A Team if they would still go along and give their whole hearted backing. If not - there must be a line in the sand somewhere across which we are uncomfortable to go. It cannot be an unqualified good concept. There must be a limit.

In the circumstances of; an exile of more than 20 years with multiple home venues; virtually no visible profile in the home community; an often antagonistic relationship with the local authority; precious little success on the field, and; close to zero promotional activity (during all that time and even prior); it is actually pretty amazing that the Lions' crowds haven't sunk to an even lower ebb. The circumstances for attracting in new supporters could hardly have been any worse. The circumstances for keeping longer established supporters could hardly have been any worse. How good would attendances be if at least some of these things had been properly addressed?

Surely we have learned by now that the key to achievement of sustained greater success is not to throw money at the team without firstly addressing the underlying problems that are limiting the club from reaching its full potential. Its virtually impossible to effectively market a team called Swinton that plays in Leigh, trains in Padgate and contains 50% Warrington players. Yes we have evolved though all the background history, much of which has a central theme of gross mismanagement by the way, but for people new to the area or aged under 20?? This is why true delivery of Agecroft has to be top of the list, but there are also other things such as forming some productive partnerships to enable the club to infiltrate the community - at least define a target audience and show some initiative to get them engaged.

I can understand the attraction of using Warrington's facilities for some training, for years the players have been using amateur level facilities, but this should not replace the desire to at some point develop some better quality facilities nearer home with some relevence to the home community. Learn from how the Wolves have done it - i.e. in partnership with the education sector. The club's leaders ought to be giving the message to local politicians, NHS officials etc - why don't we try and do something like this in the Swinton and Pendlebury area, an area with much greater social needs than the Warrington area. This can be a link between professional rugby league and the quality of life / opportunites available to people who live in that community - thus the reason why political level support can be justified. But we don't appear to be making that argument.

Gareth Walker confirms in today's League Express that the Lions currently have the lowest number of players directly signed up of any club in the Championship. So we are at least the furthest engaged club on the receiving end of this concept as things stand.

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Im beginning to think you live in a parallel universe.

Which local government, nhs authority or education authority has any money to waste in a rugby league partnership?

Working in the public sector there is no money!

You are NOT the only one with high expectations.

You are NOT the only one to want the best for Swinton

If this is what you believe by us being happy with the status quo then you are more mis guided than I have ever thought before.

Just to remind you in the years 1972 to 1992 we won virtually ###### all either. We were in town in the community.

I wonder how many times you are going to voice your displeasure at this venture? Every week every day?

The plans you suggest are fantastic. ..but they at present are unattainable. The reasons are complex. The solution even more so.

None of us contributors who are supportive of the merger want to play anywhere but swinton with a team full of locals...do you really think we want anything different?

If this venture doesn't work why is it Warrington a team or bust?

Why can't we just go back to how it was before?

I am here in the real world where everything is broken.

But I'm enjoying it and being optimistic. Give it a try.

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Im beginning to think you live in a parallel universe.

Which local government, nhs authority or education authority has any money to waste in a rugby league partnership?

Working in the public sector there is no money!

You are NOT the only one with high expectations.

You are NOT the only one to want the best for Swinton

If this is what you believe by us being happy with the status quo then you are more mis guided than I have ever thought before.

Just to remind you in the years 1972 to 1992 we won virtually ###### all either. We were in town in the community.

I wonder how many times you are going to voice your displeasure at this venture? Every week every day?

The plans you suggest are fantastic. ..but they at present are unattainable. The reasons are complex. The solution even more so.

None of us contributors who are supportive of the merger want to play anywhere but swinton with a team full of locals...do you really think we want anything different?

If this venture doesn't work why is it Warrington a team or bust?

Why can't we just go back to how it was before?

I am here in the real world where everything is broken.

But I'm enjoying it and being optimistic. Give it a try.

Look upon the idea of partnerships as "a waste" if you so wish, but to my way of thinking there is plenty of potential for well thought out initiatives to deliver very worthwhile benefits directly relevent to the needs of the local area and therefore be "money well spent". Plus there is a huge amount of evidence from other areas to show positive outcomes can be achieved when these things are done well. Now who's being the pessimist?

If Dr Koukash completes his buyout of Salford City Council's share in the Salford City Stadium next week it ought to equate to roughly a £20-25m unplanned windfall to council coffers, perhaps just a modest slice of that could be made available to at least do some early facilitating and also level the playing field between the support given to the two local sides. Just a thought.

Perhaps you could ask Trevor Barton how many people told him LSV would never happen. The only problem is likely to be that by about 2007 he lost count. Were you a Doubting Thomas? If so, he proved you wrong! Now LSV is up and running, do you think the venture was/is wasteful? Perhaps more importantly - do you think the people of Leigh view it as having been a waste?

We have two multi £million public sector building projects currently ongoing in the Borough - the new Moorside High School and the new St Ambrose High School (shortly to be expanded to accomodate pupils from St George's in Walkden). Plus another huge development that involves the private sector on former NHS land at "Nightingale Gardens" aka the former Children's Hospital. The landscape is being changed, some things are still possible. There has to be room for vision and good ideas and progress, even when times are in some ways hard.

I did not say that it is "Warrington A or bust". What I did say is that there has to be a limit on how far the concept of a partnership can be taken. Interesting that you have used the phrase "merger" - the ultimate extent and perish the thought, surely? What we don't currently have is a clear and realistic vision of a better future for Swinton RLFC in its own right, within which there should be a defined but restricted roll for the relationship with Warrington to play a positive part. Hopefully the end goal IS NOT a "merger".

"Why can't we just go back to how it was before?" Because if you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting what you have always got. And according to you, that's not very much. The question I ask is: Why can't things be BETTER than how it was before?

Your overriding sentiment appears to be, "We are rubbish, have pretty much always been rubbish, and there is no realistic way we will ever cease being rubbish". And you call that OPTIMISM?

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League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017