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Barnie

what do you really want?

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I believe this was the 2012 squad for the start of last season (22 players)

Martin Ainscough

Karl Ashall

Ian Mort

Chaz I'Anson

Mark Smith

Gavin Dodd

Alex Hurst

Mike Morrison

Dale Cunniffe

Lee Wingfield - Retired early last season

Neil Holland - Injured for the early stages of the season

Ritchie Hawkyard

Darren Hawkyard

Sam Reay

Ian Watson

Andy Gorski - Loaned out to SW, subsequently left permenantly

Danny Meekin

Tom Armstrong

Rob Foxen - Loaned out to Oldham, subsequently left permenantly

Adam Higson - Injured for the final third of the season, subsequently left

David Mills

Kevin Penny

Once the DR players were added last season we were ok, and some would say even better than previous.

Forster

Hale

Walker

Riley

(I've forgotten others that signed!)

Either way, players were still unhappy about not being given game time, Holland, Meekin, Foxen, Gorski, even Hurst, Ashall and Reay were used intermittently. Having thought about it, surely having 17 players signed on a permenant basis is probably better than last season in that we should be able to keep the majority of our players happy with game-time. Especially if 5-10 Warrington players are also training with our first team.

Granted, it's not ideal if we get numerous injuries. However, last season we had some big players out with injuries, Higson, Morty, Daz Hawkyard and we managed okay. Can we put our end of season slump down to our lack of numbers? unsure.

Either way, this is what we've got and we'll get on with it.

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Ive been trying to get my point across about the size of swintons squad for a while now,i worry at why swinton have only been able to recruit 17 players is it by choice or is there other reasons why players won't come to swinton.Most champ clubs have 20/25 squad players plus dr players, i think the size of the squad could have a big impact on swintons season ( hope im wrong ). I think this sunday will be a good indication as to how swinton will go, workington having only just come up.

Good luck for the season

I suspect (or is that hope) there are still some negotiations going on even at this late stage. We have yet to announce squad numbers yet so we live in hope. It may be that some of the present dual reg become more permenant for the season.....as indicated in the Advertiser.

Given that workington have signed on the whole of Widnes' first team squad (except Hock and overseas visa holders) as Dual Registration then Sunday may not be a good indicator at all ! Widnes are playing at the same time so unless time travel comes into it I expect a great game whoever plays.

Good to be back

Lets enjoy...

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Is it not about competition for places though,some players may get lazy knowing their place is safe every week

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Just to add to your post some figures that will be used:-

A SL player on salary of £100k+ adds - £1,500 per match to the Championship clubs salary cap total

A SL player on salary of £60k - £99,999 adds - £1,000 per match

A SL player on salary of £40k - £59,999 adds - £750 per match

A SL player on salary of £20k - £39,999 adds - £500 per match

A SL player on salary of Under £20k adds - Actual costs incurred.

It doesn't matter if the Championship club doesn't have to pay a penny towards the SL player it still counts on that clubs salary cap total.

The other point is that just the same as last year dual reg players have to play a certain percentage of qualifying games throughout the season to be able to play in the Championship play-offs, so a club can't just bring in top player at the end of the season.

Only clubs that are linked can use the dual registering process. Clubs not so linked can still loan players for a minimum of 28 days.

The authorities have focussed on the threat of a club bringing in a big-name highly paid player on a short-term deal just for the playoffs ever since Warrington brought Andrew Johns over in those circumstances. On a lesser scale Oldham also tried a similar tactic. One impact of this being that it demeans the value of the league fixtures. Personally I prefer to think of the side that tops the league table as the true "Champions" as its a test of consistency.

However! These rules don't map across perfectly to the situation in the Championship this season, as there's another factor that doesn't apply to Super League - i.e. relegation. Ironically, the penalty for getting relegated into Championship 1 is likely to be a much larger sum than any prize money available at the top end of the table. So - what happens if we get a relegation 6 pointer? A side might be tempted to think £1,500 is a small price to pay in order to secure themselves another season in the second tier, as opposed to going down.

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The authorities have focussed on the threat of a club bringing in a big-name highly paid player on a short-term deal just for the playoffs ever since Warrington brought Andrew Johns over in those circumstances. On a lesser scale Oldham also tried a similar tactic. One impact of this being that it demeans the value of the league fixtures. Personally I prefer to think of the side that tops the league table as the true "Champions" as its a test of consistency.

However! These rules don't map across perfectly to the situation in the Championship this season, as there's another factor that doesn't apply to Super League - i.e. relegation. Ironically, the penalty for getting relegated into Championship 1 is likely to be a much larger sum than any prize money available at the top end of the table. So - what happens if we get a relegation 6 pointer? A side might be tempted to think £1,500 is a small price to pay in order to secure themselves another season in the second tier, as opposed to going down.

That's always assuming that by that stage of the season they can fit £1,500 in to their salary cap total Phil!!!

I think you will find this weekend that Swinton will probably play more DR players than Town and we have upwards of 7 or 8 out injured or suspended.

Last year we had a squad of 23 or 24 plus 4 DR players but a run of bad injuries at the end of the season saw us lose about 9 and we had to send a patched up team to Gateshead using 2 retired players, a 17 year old prop on the wing, get another lad from Uni to play and put down 2 of the injured players as subs to avoid getting a fine for not having 17 names on the team sheet. It cost us the Championship 1 title so this DR system gives us a little bit of a safety net this time.

It will be a good game on Sunday as it always is between our two sides.

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Is it not about competition for places though,some players may get lazy knowing their place is safe every week

Very true, we have to try and find that consistency.

Personally I'd like a good 4-5 more players signed up for the Lions, as I assume others would as well. But as usual the proof will be how the team performs over the season. Hopefully there will be a good start against Workington on Sunday.

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Very true, we have to try and find that consistency.

Personally I'd like a good 4-5 more players signed up for the Lions, as I assume others would as well. But as usual the proof will be how the team performs over the season. Hopefully there will be a good start against Workington on Sunday.

The real answer is to field a reserve side.

Notwithstanding that, there's a couple of important switches in emphasis for the 2013 Dual Registered players when compared to 2012.

Last season the backs were all contracted players - Dual Registered players were focussed entirely in the forwards. That meant some players like Meekin (who I would welcome back tomorrow), Wingfield and Gorski were very unlucky in my opinion, didn't get much opportunity to play and ultimately retired / left for pastures new / haven't joined this year. Another impact was a reasonable degree of stability in the three quarters, also at half back and the 2 hookers.

There is a different challenge for Steve McCormack this time around. I think this reflects the fact that under this partnership agreement Warrington has a massive influence on who goes across on Dual Registration, so the deal has to suit Warrington's needs and that brings in an entirely new aspect.

I feel it will be a more difficult job for Steve McCormack to properly gell the team patterns, as the 2013 Dual Registered players are in positions all across the park and likely to change with greater regularity. For example Dwyer is a type of player that will have his hands on the ball at virtually every play, he will be part of the central spine of the team, helping make the play and shaping the basic structure of the side. He's the kind of player of which you could normally say - "Build the team around him" - but when he might disappear at any moment, that's a risky thing to do.

On the flip side, at least we don't have one particular area of the side overloaded with Dual Registered players like it was last year. Hopefully a plus side of that will be no contracted Swinton player has 3 or 4 Dual Registered players above them in the pecking order for their respective position. So hopefully we won't have the sort of situation that inflicted Lee Winfield et al last year when they had effectively little or no chance of getting a game - a part time player asked to compete against 3 or 4 full timers for the shirt.

I'm also of the opinion that Carl Forster and Adam Walker were superior quality to any of the D/R players we have seen so far from Warrington.

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I agree with the majority of your points Phil.

I don't think we'd be able to run a reserve side, mainly due to funding.

Forster and Walker were quality and would walk straight into our team this season, which probably means we've taken a step back with regards to quality. It's good to see Riley back though!

A back line with very little experience at this level as well, but I do like alot of the new signings and they've shown alot of promise.

If Dwyer is avilable, he should be in our 17 every week.

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I agree with everything what as been said on this topic, I am sticking to the fact I have got 100% faith in Steve Mc and if he says were heading in the right direction then I will go with him on it.

Plus you never know, some more players could be coming very soon

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The dual reg concept as it was have no problem with ,you could only register 4 players all under a certain age.

It gave championship clubs access to

good players who have the potential to play SL but are not ready for it week in week out .

Gave the player a chance to play at a higher level than academy and develop further as a player

it was to give the SL club a chance to look at how they perform and develop at a higher level and it worked Shaw at barrow Peterson at town etc.

But now you can register as many players as you want(full squads in some cases) and any age,and this is my issue with it.Why register a player like Kevin brown who will play for Widnes week in week out.The only reason I can think of is to give him a bit of game time if he is coming back from injury,and this type of use of player to get first team players fit or keep them fit is the first step to being said SLClubs reserve team.You only have to read Dennis betts comments how he has spoken to his players about how turning out for Workington will be good to bring them back from injury or non selection to see that's how they see it.

We have Linked up with saints and have yet to announce who we have on DR, and looks like we will use our own squad for this week at least,but I'm hopeing it will be up coming players we register,as I would be against us registering loads of players and being seen as a way to keep fringe players fit.

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Haven4ever, how many clubs in the Championship do you know that could add say £1,000 to their salary cap, just let a SL player have a 20 -30 minute cameo role.

As you have said elsewhere, if Haven only have 5 Saints players DR and none of them play in a position that you need filling, you say you would de-register one of the 5 and register another. How is that any different from having extra players registered in the first place?

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Simple Keith by not having a full squad registered the SL can't use it as way for players to come back from injury,read Betts comments it's clear how he plans to use it .question is will town or any other club for that matter my own included allow them to do that ?i hope not but Betts statement about it would make me uneasy

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Simple Keith by not having a full squad registered the SL can't use it as way for players to come back from injury,read Betts comments it's clear how he plans to use it .question is will town or any other club for that matter my own included allow them to do that ?i hope not but Betts statement about it would make me uneasy

Why what as betts said? That makes you uneasy.

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Simple Keith by not having a full squad registered the SL can't use it as way for players to come back from injury,read Betts comments it's clear how he plans to use it .question is will town or any other club for that matter my own included allow them to do that ?i hope not but Betts statement about it would make me uneasy

All Betts was doing was "geeing up" his squad to show that going on DR to Town wasn't a punishment but a way of getting in to the first team.

Even though it doesn't necessarily cost the Championship club a penny, the players nominal fee is added to the Championship clubs salary cap total and the figures stated are per game. You could be looking at several thousands of pounds

per game plus your own p,ayers salaries, so I don't think you need worry that what you say is going to happen on a regular basis.

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“Having spoken to our players about their recovery from non-selection or injury, playing for Workington is seen as a big step back into the Widnes first team"

Said a lot but this line sort of sums up how widnes intend to use the DR system

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Haven4ever, your team this week isn't using any DR players. Who made that decision?

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i would say if its correct then the coach,given he said in the press he wanted to give our own players a chance,seems widnes have made 3 available for you.If this is correct will all 3 play,if they had made 5 available would 5 have played.This is what im on about could get very messy when SL clubs including saints make certain players available and clubs decline to play them. This is why i think the old system was better,with this you could end up with a number of different players every week.That could not happen under the old system as you could only register 4.Said before keith for some one supposedl against this you dont half defend it.

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Must admit I am not too sure how all this will pan out over the season but I cannot see the extreme situations that are possible actually occurring.

Of the three main DR payers we had last year (Walker/Riley/Forster) we seemed to get two of them injured so they could not play for their main club and the third played so well for us he got recalled too often to be effective.

The second half of the season then seemed to tail away.

If I was Warrington I would be very wary of sending and returning injured players to Swinton!

As for losing a player who is playing well (the concept of the "feeder club") then that happens anyway. Armstrong was snapped up by Sheffield, Higson to Leigh and Hurst to the Broncos. It does therefore seem that even without DR we are forced to be okay at best. Make sure your best players do not play too well....

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i would say if its correct then the coach,given he said in the press he wanted to give our own players a chance,seems widnes have made 3 available for you.If this is correct will all 3 play,if they had made 5 available would 5 have played.This is what im on about could get very messy when SL clubs including saints make certain players available and clubs decline to play them. This is why i think the old system was better,with this you could end up with a number of different players every week.That could not happen under the old system as you could only register 4.Said before keith for some one supposedl against this you dont half defend it.

So no pressure was put on your coach to pick Saints players but yet you assume every other club will be. I've told several times I don't like the DR system but we have had it foisted upon us and it's no good belly achi ng about it, you have to accept it and get the most advantage you can from. End of.

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So no pressure was put on your coach to pick Saints players but yet you assume every other club will be. I've told several times I don't like the DR system but we have had it foisted upon us and it's no good belly achi ng about it, you have to accept it and get the most advantage you can from. End of.

agree with that keith its in like it or not and have to make the most of it,just think its a big mistake registering a full squad ,leaves it open for SL club to try to manipulate...agree to disagree

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Must admit I am not too sure how all this will pan out over the season but I cannot see the extreme situations that are possible actually occurring.

Of the three main DR payers we had last year (Walker/Riley/Forster) we seemed to get two of them injured so they could not play for their main club and the third played so well for us he got recalled too often to be effective.

The second half of the season then seemed to tail away.

If I was Warrington I would be very wary of sending and returning injured players to Swinton!

As for losing a player who is playing well (the concept of the "feeder club") then that happens anyway. Armstrong was snapped up by Sheffield, Higson to Leigh and Hurst to the Broncos. It does therefore seem that even without DR we are forced to be okay at best. Make sure your best players do not play too well....

Having the Swinton first team used as a means of developing young players whose first loyalty is at all times to Warrington ("feeder club") is a different issue to problems with retention of players contracted to Swinton (the phrase there should really be "selling club" and that would be an accurate portrayal of what often happens in football, admittedly transfer fees are as rare as hen's teeth nowadays in RL).

The true answer to the problem you highlight is to grow income. So the key question is: Is the link with Warrington being implimented as part of a strategy to deliver increased income, or - is the link with Warrington simply designed to reduce overheads while clinging to life in the Championship and playing out of town?

The Lions really do need to get on with Agecroft, pronto. Dr Koukash is already making a major impact at Salford City Reds, if he goes on to make it a big success there is a risk the Reds will swamp the area and younger potential supporters will be even more focussed on Salford than they are already.

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Confirmed on prem sports we were offered 3 saints players this week one of whom has been in a GF bit declined want to give our own squad a chance first

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The Lions really do need to get on with Agecroft, pronto. Dr Koukash is already making a major impact at Salford City Reds, if he goes on to make it a big success there is a risk the Reds will swamp the area and younger potential supporters will be even more focussed on Salford than they are already.

"The Lions really do need to get on with Agecroft, prontissimo"

COULDN'T AGREE MORE PHILL

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