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Marauder

Summer

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Summer rugby being discussed tonight (28/1/2013) @ the Pennine meeting.

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Would be good if the Pennine League moved to March-Nov. Over the next few years, most of their clubs will, and it would be good if the league as an entity did, as they have always been one of the best run amateur leagues around.

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Would be good if the Pennine League moved to March-Nov. Over the next few years, most of their clubs will, and it would be good if the league as an entity did, as they have always been one of the best run amateur leagues around.

What makes you think most of their clubs will move, the only indication I've heared is they are all happy with the winter and seem very clued up with the problems summer clubs have been having, may be it's a case of watch and wait to see if these problems can be sorted and how they will be.

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It would be better if the PL ran both summer and winter.

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It would be better if the PL ran both summer and winter.

Pennine talked of doing this last season using the summer as a vehicle to develop new players, this could be what was on the agenda last night.

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Not a lot to report back on from last nights meeting

It seemed the consensus was that the RFL are trying to force clubs to go summer.

90% of the clubs in the Pennine admitted to having up to 6 National Conerence League players, most of which they are about to lose back to their NCL clubs (Even the Division 6 clubs have them)

All clubs pledge their support to winter rugby and a suggestion for a winter break got shot down by the clubs.

The Pennine are looking at introducing it's own junior leagues with all clubs supporting the motion.

Apart from this it was a bog standard regional meeting.

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What makes you think most of their clubs will move, the only indication I've heared is they are all happy with the winter and seem very clued up with the problems summer clubs have been having, may be it's a case of watch and wait to see if these problems can be sorted and how they will be.

I think the whole game will move to summer in due course. I think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages and I think in due course people running clubs who currently still play in summer will eventually agree with me :D

What are we now SL16, SL17? Something like that anyway. We're starting to move into the era where people moving into OA rugby will have less and less association with winter rugby and as each year goes by, we'll have less and less players and administrators who associate rugby league with a Sept-April season.

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It seemed the consensus was that the RFL are trying to force clubs to go summer.

"We would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you pesky kids"

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Barla have agreed a policy that there will be no new playing formats , including Junior Leagues without Community Board approval.

I assume that the Pennine League will be aware of this and are to pursue the appropriate permissions via their Governing Bodies , Barla , and then the Community Board ?

I didn't appreciate though that the Pennine Clubs had become so reliant upon NCL lads. Maybe they should have embraced the Primary / Secondary rules after all. That would definitely have softened the likely exodus back to summer.....

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I think the whole game will move to summer in due course. I think the benefits outweigh the disadvantages and I think in due course people running clubs who currently still play in summer will eventually agree with me :D

What are we now SL16, SL17? Something like that anyway. We're starting to move into the era where people moving into OA rugby will have less and less association with winter rugby and as each year goes by, we'll have less and less players and administrators who associate rugby league with a Sept-April season.

Can't play without; players, club officials and Referees and I'm hearing a very different story to whats being said on here about summer being the BRIGHT new future.

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Pennine teams are not reliant on ncl players,a lot of them play for there original clubs in winter but also like to play summer rugby,there are is only a finite number of players and unfortunately many are now playing year round which cannot be good for the game or the players long term.

Many don't seem to realise that the pennine league is the largest in the country by far,and very well run.there is nothing stopping them drawing a line in the sand and going there own way,withdrawing from barla and being totally independent .now that would be something to talk about rather than the same old drivel .

This problem isn't going away its only going to get worse,people need open constructive dialogue not the constant criticism from either side that we seem to have now.

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Barla have agreed a policy that there will be no new playing formats , including Junior Leagues without Community Board approval.

I assume that the Pennine League will be aware of this and are to pursue the appropriate permissions via their Governing Bodies , Barla , and then the Community Board ?

I didn't appreciate though that the Pennine Clubs had become so reliant upon NCL lads. Maybe they should have embraced the Primary / Secondary rules after all. That would definitely have softened the likely exodus back to summer.....

What happened at the end of summer last season :rolleyes: Yep exodus to winter, not ideal but it will happen every year, new playing formats are easy to get round when the biggest percentage of the junior sides in Yorkshire are run by Pennine league clubs, "A simple VOTE" :O

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Pennine teams are not reliant on ncl players,a lot of them play for there original clubs in winter but also like to play summer rugby,there are is only a finite number of players and unfortunately many are now playing year round which cannot be good for the game or the players long term.

Many don't seem to realise that the pennine league is the largest in the country by far,and very well run.there is nothing stopping them drawing a line in the sand and going there own way,withdrawing from barla and being totally independent .now that would be something to talk about rather than the same old drivel .

This problem isn't going away its only going to get worse,people need open constructive dialogue not the constant criticism from either side that we seem to have now.

Just trying to tease out the real issues Ranger12

Will the Pennine League accept Barla directives and back their decisions or are they effectively as independent now as the other Associate Leagues such as the various Youth and Junior Playing Leagues and the NCL itself ?

Will they too take the Associate route , or , quite frankly, just take Barla over ?

I agree with you on open constructive dialogue. Lines in the sand are as good a place to start from as anywhere else....

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At the moment barla are a spent force and needs a top down shake up,I believe there days are numbered.

Don't know about the pennine league taking over barla that remains to be seen,but it could be a possibility.

One thing is certain every club in the pennine league supports the continuation of winter rugby,the same cant be said for the teams playing summer only .

If the pennine were to start there own junior leagues,think how many junior teams would be returning to winter,that would create huge problems for the Rfl,and force them to start listening to the amateur clubs as a whole not just a few clubs who they seem to have cherry picked as part of there long term plans.

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Just trying to tease out the real issues Ranger12

Will the Pennine League accept Barla directives and back their decisions or are they effectively as independent now as the other Associate Leagues such as the various Youth and Junior Playing Leagues and the NCL itself ?

Will they too take the Associate route , or , quite frankly, just take Barla over ?

I agree with you on open constructive dialogue. Lines in the sand are as good a place to start from as anywhere else....

Whats the problem If they take over BARLA by the ballot box.

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What happened at the end of summer last season :rolleyes: Yep exodus to winter, not ideal but it will happen every year, new playing formats are easy to get round when the biggest percentage of the junior sides in Yorkshire are run by Pennine league clubs, "A simple VOTE" :O

This would be the same clubs who voted for their junior clubs to move to summer in the first place. Not sure why they would vote now to go back to winter. Truth is most kids would rather play in the summer and most of their parents would rather watch them and do vol work in the summer. Junior clubs in Yorkshire chose to go to summer. The only reason there isn't a winter comp for junior teams in Yorkshire is because there weren't enough clubs who wanted to play in winter.

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One of the comments made was that fellow amateurs are now using rules to stop fellow amateur players playing the game!!!

it seems scandalous that this seems the case :(

maybe, just maybe, some people should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask the question.....

Am i doing this for the good of amateur rugby league?

OR am i doing this for the good of myself (and maybe my bank balance)

Just a thought.

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There should be opportunities for people to play rugby league whenever and wherever they like. And once they are over 18 to play as often as they like.

That applies as equally to the south of England as the north and to July as to January.

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This would be the same clubs who voted for their junior clubs to move to summer in the first place. Not sure why they would vote now to go back to winter. Truth is most kids would rather play in the summer and most of their parents would rather watch them and do vol work in the summer. Junior clubs in Yorkshire chose to go to summer. The only reason there isn't a winter comp for junior teams in Yorkshire is because there weren't enough clubs who wanted to play in winter.

Think your forgetting about the carrot and stick approach by the Rfl to achieve this,ie grants and funding,not all clubs were happy to go summer but had no option in the end.there now trying the same approach with open age.

Once the funding dries up we may well see a lot of clubs reverting back to winter.

Numbers training may well be up but that is certainly not the case come game day,same goes for parent participation.

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This would be the same clubs who voted for their junior clubs to move to summer in the first place. Not sure why they would vote now to go back to winter. Truth is most kids would rather play in the summer and most of their parents would rather watch them and do vol work in the summer. Junior clubs in Yorkshire chose to go to summer. The only reason there isn't a winter comp for junior teams in Yorkshire is because there weren't enough clubs who wanted to play in winter.

Most junior sections at clubs govern themselves with their own committee & secretary, like the biggest percentage of secretaries who go to meeting they will follow what the league committee will tell them without question just like sheep.

Summer in theory is the ideal time for any sport to be played; the reality is there are far too many other distractions and this has been spoken about on here many times.

Probably 10,000 reasons why they chose to go summer and probably as many why they are talking about a move back to winter (If you check juniors do play in the winter)

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Whats the problem If they take over BARLA by the ballot box.

Absolutely no problem at all with that Marauder.

Trouble is the Yorkshire Districts because of the voting blocks have maintained the status quo at Barla for at least 15 years . That's largely the Pennine League feeder Districts isn't it ? If they are eventually smelling the coffee they will certainly get Red Rose and Cumbria support. But hey let's see what rolls out......

Meanwhile Open Age delegates need to be very careful about directing juniors to a particular season. They quite frankly don't have a mandate for that. Looks good on paper perhaps , but history tells you that the Juniors will run separately , sometimes chaotically , but always where they want to be. One of the reasons why the NCL , which could otherwise bring over 400 junior teams directly under it's control, has chosen not to .

Food for thought for the Pennine Management ?

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There is time to sort out the problems with junior rugby ,the main problem is going to be in a few years time,when juniors from a winter based club go to open age having only ever played in summer.thats what what winter based clubs are concerned about.how many will stay summer.

The more pressing concern is the overlap of winter and summer based open age leagues,with so many players electing to play both.

The Rfl have have said the summer based club is the primary club for a player and winter secondary,surely it is up to the player to decide which is his primary club.

At the moment a player has to get a transfer from summer to winter but not from winter to summer,with many ncl clubs are using this to there advantage by making it very difficult for a player to get these forms filled in and signed.at the moment the ncl seem to have no intention of coming to a compromise to overcome this and the Rfl are not exactly rushing forward either.

Surely logic dictates that if a player chooses winter or summer as his primary season then he should have to finish that season before being allowed to move over,that would then solve a lot of the problems and clubs will know where they stand with player numbers.but that would need all parties to agree,there lies the problem.

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There is time to sort out the problems with junior rugby ,the main problem is going to be in a few years time,when juniors from a winter based club go to open age having only ever played in summer.thats what what winter based clubs are concerned about.how many will stay summer.

The more pressing concern is the overlap of winter and summer based open age leagues,with so many players electing to play both.

The Rfl have have said the summer based club is the primary club for a player and winter secondary,surely it is up to the player to decide which is his primary club.

At the moment a player has to get a transfer from summer to winter but not from winter to summer,with many ncl clubs are using this to there advantage by making it very difficult for a player to get these forms filled in and signed.at the moment the ncl seem to have no intention of coming to a compromise to overcome this and the Rfl are not exactly rushing forward either.

Surely logic dictates that if a player chooses winter or summer as his primary season then he should have to finish that season before being allowed to move over,that would then solve a lot of the problems and clubs will know where they stand with player numbers.but that would need all parties to agree,there lies the problem.

Summer based Juniors will expect in due course an Open Age summer comp. Your winter teams need to adapt to the obvious future ?

And finally you come round to the Primary / Secondary registration issues . A lot of people spent a lot of hours on that one. They got it right and hey ho for you at least the penny has just dropped. Pity your Pennine League won't accept it , and could well be cleaned out of quality players in March as a consequence....

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The Rfl have have said the summer based club is the primary club for a player and winter secondary,surely it is up to the player to decide which is his primary club.

not the case at all and sounds like a typical bit of mis-information!

the club the player registers with is the primary club. if that club is not playing, and a club in a different competition has a game then the player can play as a secondary registered player for that club.

here's how it worked for Bury Broncos (summer) and Irlam (winter) - Irlam players played for Bury when their season finished, when the winter season started up again, they played for Irlam. They were primary registered at Irlam so they got first choice. There are currently some Bury players playing for Irlam as a secondary club so it works both ways and it is up to individual clubs to manage the impacts.

The player however can elect to use the transfer mechanism to transfer their primary registration. so, as an example, a NCL registered player wanted to join Bury - they could have played as a secondary registered player on dates when not needed by the NCL club but instead, wanted to be available to Bury so transferred to Bury and became primary registered with us. as it happens, he has played one or two games this winter as a secondary regsistered player at a winter club. all his own choices and enabled by the system put in place.

so there is absolutely nothing wrong with that system! It's up to the player who he is primary regsistered with (subject to league transfer rules) and it can be a winter side if he wishes.

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