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jamescolin

SL clubs and debt

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It has been announced today that SL clubs have debts of 68.5 million. Expenditure is exceeding income. What sort of brains have we got running our game. I have said it so many times it is cash flow that counts. Whatever your income your outgoings have got to be less otherwise your on the road to liquidation. That's why we should hang on to all income sources and not just rely on gate money. The land the club owns comes into this and is a perpetual source of income from rents. It is important that we keep an asset that will increase in value and also bring in money. Therefore any scheme should be a joint one with us keeping ownership. Our crowds will not sustain the overheads of SL alone. I have said elsewhere that if we do sell then we will be on the road of depreciating capital especially if we do it before we get a SL licence. I am also aware that people will say that our hierarchy know what they are doing. Lets see. But if it comes to a vote of 'A' shareholders I know which way I will be voting. Incidentally I reckon that the bosses of all the SL clubs think they know what they are doing. Results seem to speak otherwise. Again I say I am not anti anybody, but I am pro Rovers.

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The problem is though col is that even before tonight's show they are trying to explain that it's not really debt etc. instead of admitting there is a problem they are going to try and cover it up like they do with most of the problems in our game.

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I missed the show. Was it all down to overspending or debt secured against assets, similar to a mortgage? There's a considerable difference.

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I missed the show. Was it all down to overspending or debt secured against assets, similar to a mortgage? There's a considerable difference.

Nothing to report really gaz I thought it was going to be an half hour slot but it only turned out to be 10 mins. They just went round a few grounds and talked to hetherington.

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Nothing to report really gaz I thought it was going to be an half hour slot but it only turned out to be 10 mins. They just went round a few grounds and talked to hetherington.

So not really owt to see then. All sports show large debts, ours is no different. Not ideal, but a fact of life.

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Someone says we're screwed. Someone else said we're not. Someone else alleged SL clubs are in the sh it to the tune of 60+m quid. That allegation wasn't challenged.

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And Hetherington blamed poor management at club level and said that some clubs were letting the game down.

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Didnt anyone ask who went through the club finances for the last round of licenses and passed them all

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Didnt anyone ask who went through the club finances for the last round of licenses and passed them all

"Fax's finances are speculative"... main reason they were refused a licence.

At the time of that Quote, Wakey were on their ar se, Crusaders all but went out of business, Salford have gone ar se upperds, as have Bradford and whilst we don't know yet to what expent Cas are in the brown stuff, all indications are that they to are down the Gary Glitter......... yet Fax's finances were speculative???????

Parity in fiscal assessment my botty.

Like I've said before, I really would like to know just what a SL club has to do to be refused a licence. Fev or any other CC club has to "climb everest in flip flops" compaired to what a SL club has to do to reain their licence!!

Fairness my fat ginger botty!

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"Fax's finances are speculative"... main reason they were refused a licence.

At the time of that Quote, Wakey were on their ar se, Crusaders all but went out of business, Salford have gone ar se upperds, as have Bradford and whilst we don't know yet to what expent Cas are in the brown stuff, all indications are that they to are down the Gary Glitter......... yet Fax's finances were speculative???????

Parity in fiscal assessment my botty.

Like I've said before, I really would like to know just what a SL club has to do to be refused a licence. Fev or any other CC club has to "climb everest in flip flops" compaired to what a SL club has to do to reain their licence!!

Fairness my fat ginger botty!

well said Robin

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Even the directors of Hull have admitted that the club is only kept viable by massive personal donations, year in, year out.

The issue of salaries in every class of sport will have to be addressed, sooner or later. If participants object, so be it. Everyone else in life has to suffer and bear the brunt of the economic disaster, Why should our sports persons have the effrontery to demand such obscene salaries?. The old chestnut of "their careers only last over a limited period" does not wash. They earn more in twelve months than the normal working man earns in a lifetime.

Rant over.

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Even the directors of Hull have admitted that the club is only kept viable by massive personal donations, year in, year out.

The issue of salaries in every class of sport will have to be addressed, sooner or later. If participants object, so be it. Everyone else in life has to suffer and bear the brunt of the economic disaster, Why should our sports persons have the effrontery to demand such obscene salaries?. The old chestnut of "their careers only last over a limited period" does not wash. They earn more in twelve months than the normal working man earns in a lifetime.

Rant over.

Soccer players might. $uperleague players earn very decent wages but - more than a normal working man earns in a lifetime ? Only if he gets run over by a bus at an early age .....

The fact is that professional sport will continue like this as long as people are prepared to pay for it - whether at the turnstile or by loans and donations.

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Soccer players might. $uperleague players earn very decent wages but - more than a normal working man earns in a lifetime ? Only if he gets run over by a bus at an early age .....

The fact is that professional sport will continue like this as long as people are prepared to pay for it - whether at the turnstile or by loans and donations.

I have to agree Griff. I don't think you can throw SL palyers into the mix, unless, as you say there are unforseen circumstances on the part of -as Mr Crowther puts it - an ordinary working man. Using footballers as a comparison is a little naive for me, many of them have top notch agents who demand obscene wages for their clients and daft chairman prepared to pay what they want to get or keep their players. There was a situation some years ago at Leeds United when Peter Ridsdale was in charge and they were to sign Seth Johnson from Derby. Johnson openly admitted later that he, along with his agent, went into the chairmans office with a figure of £12,000pw in mind and before he spoke Ridsdale and manager David O'Leary, said to him "Before we start, the most we can offer you is £30,000pw", and guess what Johnson settled for? Somehow, I don't see too many (if any) RL chairman been as daft as that.

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It is really all relative. RL has less turnover than soccer. But on a ratio basis the trouble we have is just as high as other sports. Too much of a proportion of earnings goes on players and when out of contract they can go to other clubs without a fee being paid. All business is a matter of getting your cash flow right, but successful businessmen seem to lose all business common sense where sport is involved. Then they withdraw and leave the mess to someone else to sort out.

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It is really all relative. RL has less turnover than soccer. But on a ratio basis the trouble we have is just as high as other sports. Too much of a proportion of earnings goes on players and when out of contract they can go to other clubs without a fee being paid. All business is a matter of getting your cash flow right, but successful businessmen seem to lose all business common sense where sport is involved. Then they withdraw and leave the mess to someone else to sort out.

I have to say James that I cannot argue with any of that.

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Too much of a proportion of earnings goes on players and when out of contract they can go to other clubs without a fee being paid.

Agree with much of what you say but that's what the salary cap is for. In what trade outside sport can you expect to receive a transfer fee when an employee leaves ?

We've been used to it for about 100 years but the truth is that it never - ever - stacked up legally. It's just that no-one challenged it until 20 years ago.

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That's right Griff but now we have agents holding clubs to ransom if they want to retain a player. In the old days having trained a player and nurtured him to his best potential you got a fee for your efforts. It has gone a complete circle and richer clubs just take what they want. I say richer, but that is now appearing to be a fallacy. This is where too much money is being spent: imported Aussies who are mostly past their best and can't get into their Aussie league or our 'stars' demanding high returns or they will go to Aussie or RU.

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Agree with much of what you say but that's what the salary cap is for. In what trade outside sport can you expect to receive a transfer fee when an employee leaves ?

We've been used to it for about 100 years but the truth is that it never - ever - stacked up legally. It's just that no-one challenged it until 20 years ago.

The problem was teams were tapping up the players well before their contracts were due to expire. Instead of letting the clubs the players played for sign them back on or letting other teams know the player would be available. If the latter was in today's game maybe we wouldn't have such financial trouble but like I say that's a big maybe.

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Agree with much of what you say but that's what the salary cap is for. In what trade outside sport can you expect to receive a transfer fee when an employee leaves ?

We've been used to it for about 100 years but the truth is that it never - ever - stacked up legally. It's just that no-one challenged it until 20 years ago.

Yes but the salary cap has not been fully adhered to and the RL does not appear to have a rigid set of rules that define just what punishments are handed out. We have seen different penalties for different clubs, no consistancy whatsoever. Have to agree on the transfer policy, I have been watching the game for 50 years and could probably count 'tranfer fees' that I have been aware of at a very low number.

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The problem was teams were tapping up the players well before their contracts were due to expire. Instead of letting the clubs the players played for sign them back on or letting other teams know the player would be available. If the latter was in today's game maybe we wouldn't have such financial trouble but like I say that's a big maybe.

Spot on.

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And that's why clubs have scrapped the U23's. There's no benefit in developing your own players. You can't give them long contracts in case they don't make the grade, but when they do they are open to being poached.

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New Bradford owner moaning today. The RL hand out for last season didn't go to Bradford but their share was handed out to the other 13 clubs. He has suddenly realised it is dog eat dog and there will be no cooperation to help out when needed. He says we should be a big thriving sport but the attitude is all wrong. He then said that clubs should be run as businesses. Somethiong a few of us have been saying for years. Perhaps he should have looked more closely before handing his brass out.

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The problem was teams were tapping up the players well before their contracts were due to expire. Instead of letting the clubs the players played for sign them back on or letting other teams know the player would be available. If the latter was in today's game maybe we wouldn't have such financial trouble but like I say that's a big maybe.

Can't agree with that, Gaz. "Tapping up" is nothing to do with this issue. If I was a player and got "tapped up", I wouldn't sign until I'd found out what the existing club had on offer and then I'd choose the best deal.

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Chicken and egg situation. The tappers only have to ask the player what he is getting now and offer him more. The player goes back to his club and says he wants more. In the end the richer club wins. The situation then becomes one of teams paying more than they can afford to retain or sign a player and so the financial situation deteriorates more.

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Ever wondered about how some people get their top positions and they say it is because they have given more than 100%? Here's a clue. Let's say that the 26 letters of the alphabet represent 1-26. Then we get HARDWORK= 98%, KNOWLEDGE= 96%, ATTITUDE= 100%. Very good you say. BUT ######= 103% and ASSKISSING= 118%. So now you know why some people are where they are!

Some people might struggle a bit so HARDWORK= 8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11= 98%. GET IT?

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