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Keith Nutter

Roots

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When my Grandfather died, my Dad and his cousin were working out who had to be invited to the funeral. Quite a few had moved away and so they were counting up all the siblings. My Dad thought there had been eight (I think), my Uncle said there had been one more. Apparently at my great grandparents' house, someone had dropped a baby down the stone stairs by accident and it had died. This will have been in a year round about 1900.

These days, someone would have been up in court and all the other kids taken into care!!

Rightly. The past was often horrific. Some of the stories of poverty from my family history are gut wrenching.

Don't let anyone ever kid you that the past was a Golden Age. It was mostly #######.

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Rightly. The past was often horrific. Some of the stories of poverty from my family history are gut wrenching.

Don't let anyone ever kid you that the past was a Golden Age. It was mostly #######.

I have tried, where possible via Google street view, to locate the houses my family were living at the time of the census's. Everyone I've found has been a tiny 2 up 2 down with as many as 10 people living in it. The good old days my ######.

I remember my great grandmothers house from when I was a kid which she spent most of her adult life. Until the day she died at the age of 103 there was only an outside bog and the only hot water was from an old fashioned wall heater. As long as I could remember she slept on a bed in the corner of the back parlour/kitchen, the front room reserved for 'best'.

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Here's the real roots for you..

My great great grandmother spent a long time in a poorhouse in Huddersfield.

She had an illegitimate daughter who went to London, on her own, aged 14, and who worked in service in a hotel on Russell Square.

When she moved back to Huddersfield she had a fearsomely intelligent daughter who worked in a mill. She passed the eleven plus but didn't go to Grammar School because her family couldn't afford the uniform. She got a job aged 14 in a mill. She resented that stolen opportunity all her life, to the bitter end. She married a self educated communist who worked in the heavy engineering factories in Huddersfield and she lead, and won, an illegal strike for equal pay for women in the wartime factory where she was weaving cloth for uniforms.

They had a daughter, my mother, who became a librarian, magistrate and local councillor and married an Irish immigrant trade unionist with a deep and lifelong passion for learning who finally got a degree from Leeds University when he was 60. A massively proud day for us all.

Their son went to a damned good University, met a Swindonian girl there from a similar background, now a teacher, and made a good life for himself.

And now I have a daughter, who I hope more than anything will have the chance to build a good life of her own.

My life, my achievements, my security, my absolute certainty that tonight my daughter will be fed and will be warm . Everything about me. It would be utterly unimaginable to my great great grandmother. We have come a long way.

This is why I believe in politics. Because I know the history of my family and I know how we got here from there and I know what support was given to ordinary people. And I know what ordinary people can achieve for themselves when they work together to tear down the barriers that were put in their way.

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Here's the real roots for you..

My great great grandmother spent a long time in a poorhouse in Huddersfield.

She had an illegitimate daughter who went to London, on her own, aged 14, and who worked in service in a hotel on Russell Square.

When she moved back to Huddersfield she had a fearsomely intelligent daughter who worked in a mill. She passed the eleven plus but didn't go to Grammar School because her family couldn't afford the uniform. She got a job aged 14 in a mill. She resented that stolen opportunity all her life, to the bitter end. She married a self educated communist who worked in the heavy engineering factories in Huddersfield and she lead, and won, an illegal strike for equal pay for women in the wartime factory where she was weaving cloth for uniforms.

They had a daughter, my mother, who became a librarian, magistrate and local councillor and married an Irish immigrant trade unionist with a deep and lifelong passion for learning who finally got a degree from Leeds University when he was 60. A massively proud day for us all.

Their son went to a damned good University, met a Swindonian girl there from a similar background, now a teacher, and made a good life for himself.

And now I have a daughter, who I hope more than anything will have the chance to build a good life of her own.

My life, my achievements, my security, my absolute certainty that tonight my daughter will be fed and will be warm . Everything about me. It would be utterly unimaginable to my great great grandmother. We have come a long way.

This is why I believe in politics. Because I know the history of my family and I know how we got here from there and I know what support was given to ordinary people. And I know what ordinary people can achieve for themselves when they work together to tear down the barriers that were put in their way.

+1

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Rightly. The past was often horrific. Some of the stories of poverty from my family history are gut wrenching.

Don't let anyone ever kid you that the past was a Golden Age. It was mostly #######.

I was reading a book about Jack the Ripper the other day (don't judge me) and one of the reasons I found it so fascinating was that the author was very good on the specifics of the locality and what jobs people had to do to get by, how little housing and job security they had, and the ridiculous and hard hours they worked just to get to the next meal or bed.

And that's before you get to their likelihood of getting proper treatment or care if they got ill.

The other rather wonderful thing it revealed was that whilst divorce levels were low the number of people who stayed living with the person to whom they were married was also low. The facade of morality.

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On my father's side the various strands of the family came together in Glasgow in the mid to late 19th century. My father was born in the Calton (think Barrowlands/the Barras), my grandparents in the Gorbals. Going back the origins of the different lines were Hawick, Selkirk, Maybole/Ayr, Port Glasgow and, for the family whose surname I inherited, Dromara in County Down (although probably originating in southern Scotland).

On my mother's side the family was basically Anglo-Irish (with a little bit of in-between :) ), although my gran's surname suggests some link with Scotland. The English side had lines from Westmorland (Shap and surrounding settlements), many small towns in north Cumberland and, of course, Whitehaven. My granddad's side were, basically, Irish miners - I don't know all the Irish places of origin, but my granddad's family came over in the 1840s from Newry. The 'in-between' element was a grandmother * n who was born in Peel, Isle of Man.

Interestingly, the only well-to-do part of my entire family was through my maternal gran's family. One line were farmers seemingly prosperous enough to send their children to boarding school.

By way of contrast, my wife's family, certainly going back to the late 1700s, all originate in the towns and villages that became, or were absorbed by, Manchester: Ancoats, Hulme, Strangeways (not the prison :rolleyes: ), etc, and one family lived in the area around Long Millgate at the time Frederick Engels was researching "The Condition of Working Class in 1844".

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The thing that irks me about genealogy is go so far back and they are essentially the names of strangers, who are just as much someone elses long lost relative as mine.

From what I've been told, on my mum's side the lineage is Bradford as far as anyone can remember, barring my uncle who moved to Potter's Bar. My dad was born in Preston - :dry: I maintain wrong place, wrong time - and his parents and grandparents were from Penistone.

Anyhoo, paternal grandma asked me the other week about how she could go about finding her ancestry, but she doesn't have internet access and for transport convenience is only really confined to Heckmondwike. Any thoughts?

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The thing that irks me about genealogy is go so far back and they are essentially the names of strangers, who are just as much someone elses long lost relative as mine.

Strange, that's the thing that fascinates me. I enjoyed the fact that I was personally linked to many surnames and places (even countries). Of course they are also the ancestors of many other people, but just think of all the people you are related to.

Another thing that struck me as I went back in time was the mortality rate. One couple in Glasgow's southside in the mid-1800s had 13 children (that I've found evidence for) with just 5 surviving to 16 years of age. When you think of how difficult it was to survive in times past, you realise just how fortunate you are to be alive.

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My son did our family last year, luckily he works with a lad that runs a geneology business on the side who helped him. On my dads side he got back to the 1600's in Cumberland where they were 'yeomen farmers', all Cumberland families and not wandering too far from Holme Cultram ( now called Abbeytown). On my mums side ..... Scottish orangemen shipbuilders and Irish catholic miners who all came to Cumberland for the work.

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My son did our family last year, luckily he works with a lad that runs a geneology business on the side who helped him. On my dads side he got back to the 1600's in Cumberland where they were 'yeomen farmers', all Cumberland families and not wandering too far from Holme Cultram ( now called Abbeytown). On my mums side ..... Scottish orangemen shipbuilders and Irish catholic miners who all came to Cumberland for the work.

Aye, Holme Cultram was one of the settlements my English folks came from (as we've talked about before).

Talking about Orangemen and Irish Catholic miners, my granddad belonged to the latter group and one of his best mates was in the local lodge. I believe things between them would go a bit quiet leading up to the Twelfth, but for most of the year they were fine.

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The thing that irks me about genealogy is go so far back and they are essentially the names of strangers, who are just as much someone elses long lost relative as mine.

I can see that viewpoint Hindle but for me I find it amazing that when I look at my family tree I see the names of 64 5x Great Grandparents. And yes, they are strangers and only names but what I find amazing is that if any one of those 64 people had died at a young age (which was of course common circa 1700 or thereabouts) then I would not be here!! Some might argue that would be a good thing LOL :).

I think an earlier poster stated how hard a life some of these people had and that becomes obvious the more you dig. I have ancestors who ended up in the workhouse but my favourite is my 4x Great Grandfather who was deported to the land of the convicts for steeling sheep.

I haven't really found anybody famous in any of my lines except for Tommy Nutter (a very famous Saville Row tailor) who was a bit of a dandy by all accounts. He was my 2nd cousin once removed - we shared the same great grandparents.

Regarding sportsmen/women the only one of any note in my tree is Mike Murray (played for Barrow in the 1967 Challenge Cup Final) who is my 1st cousin once removed (and also my godfather) but I knew that before beginning my research.

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One of the interesting facts I discovered was my Paternal Grandfather Hugh Hesketh, was born in Everton in 1906, by the 1911 census he was orphaned, and living in Salford with his Uncle, also called Hugh (Crilly), his Grandfather, also called Hugh, and his cousin, yes you guessed it, also called Hugh, there was also Grandmother, Auntie, and 3 other female cousins living in a 3 bedroomed terrace in Grecian St.

My Mums side also showed a lack of imagination where it came to names. My Mum and Gran were called Ethel, my Uncle & grandad were both William.

My interest in family history started when I found a great uncle who died aged 19 in WWI, and the fact that no-one from the family knew if anyone had been to the cemetery in Belgium to remember him, I went in 2006, & 2007 (90 years to the day - 23.09.1917 - that he died), aiming to go again in 2017.

There were so many on the CWGC website with the same name, and little other details, it came as quite a shock to see his address & Father & Mothers name on the file. I saw it as a sign, & went to Tyne Cot.

I also have relatives from Hebden Bridge, Sheffield, Stockport, Warrington, Douglas IoM, Todmorden, it's only after the MSC started recruiting shipwrights that my family started to live in Salford as 3 of my 4 Great Grandfathers were carpenters

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+1

me too

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It always irked my Grandads eldest brother that his parents only married 6 weeks before he was born, stock reply from my Grandad was always, "better that than 6 weeks after lad!"

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on my paternal grandfather's side staffordshire-I've researched as far as the mid 19th century so far: there was a massive migration of miners from the declining staffordshire coal field in the mid late 19th century to West Yorkshire. My paternal grandmother's roots are I think in Shrophsire, but I'm not sure yet.

I haven't gone that far back on my mother's side just yet.

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