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marshy1

Squad For Sunday

160 posts in this topic

That's fair enough Gaz. I do wish we had such resources as yourselves, Leigh, Fax and Sheffield but we just don't. I won't be surprised if other teams at the lower end of the cc go down a similar route with dr players, and they will have more players signed onto their respective clubs than Swinton do now.

Agecroft is our only hope and has been for a long time. Championship survival is vital to achieve our return to M27 and if it means dr players from Warrington for 2013 then so be it. I can't see us having broken any rules, played the sytem, yes.

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Yes you are having a go, just as one or two others. Fact is can anyone tell me which rule the Lions have broke......well perhaps none so all you lot who don't like it....... Bugga off.even SL teams take players on loan.....don't they.

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Yes you are having a go, just as one or two others. Fact is can anyone tell me which rule the Lions have broke......well perhaps none so all you lot who don't like it....... Bugga off.even SL teams take players on loan.....don't they.

Where have I ever stated you were breaking the rules? Where have I ever stated I was having ago? Bryce didn't see my post in the way you are insinuating it does. He gave back a decent response. I will admit I don't like the system marshy but that's not because you have x amount of Warrington players in your squad. It's because I see this system going down the merger/ feeder club route in the not so distant future and I would hate to see any champ club go down that route. I agree I might be wrong marshy but I just think its a slippery slope that you might not be able to climb back up.

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I can only say this Phil. ..you drifted off to Leigh for a few seasons. I remember you still came on the swinton forum.

I think you are pretty unique in that respect.

I fail to see the relevance of your campaigning . We've all done our bit. Some of it financially or in others.

Look at people like riggy, spelly, barbara, , martin, paul Davison. I am yet to see them mention there unsung and free efforts of time money and inspiration.

If you were one of our diplomats I wonder did you get it all wrong?

Who knows how this will pan out? Ive asked this question and I don't know the answer. So many hate filled people seem to instantly be experts.

I approach it with an open mind. Many of us with just as big a stake holding as you both financially and spiritually will too.

I tell you again that if you think you are the only person who believes that a return to m27 is imperative and a firm local backing and background essential than you are misguided and misunderstand so many of the arguments put to you by me and many others.

What a lot of posts there have been on this topic whilst I've been away from the forum for just over 24 hours!

Yes I gave my support to Leigh, in fact I've always watched both sides when I can. Leigh isn't my home town but it is the place I spent all my school hours from the age of 4 to 18 inclusive. The Chief Exec and Coach are people I know and greatly respect. Its also the place I was introduced to RL.

So you're spot on that I'll probably "drift off" there again, although given the home ground is the same venue that's perhaps not the best turn of phrase. Please allow me a little time to explain the reasons why.

If I truly believed I was the only person to rate a return to M27 as imperative, I would also recognise there would be no point spending a minute debating it on here. That comment is silly. If we are going to have a reasoned debate you need to at least be fair minded and not prejudiced. Of course its about a lot more people than just me. Including by the way a very significant number of people that never come near this forum, nor been near Swinton Lions for many years either.

One of the most relevant things from the campaigning was the opportunity to talk to various people from all sorts of roles across the community and get an insight into how they perceive the club. What really struck home was the way in which the things people said went well beyond pure nostalgia. These were people of serious influence today in all the local high schools, some of the primary schools, amateur sports groups, NHS, Salford Leisure that run the Fit City centres, Salford University...etc. Consistently the line was an expression of loss and frustration that Swinton Lions was no longer a part of the community, not just in the context of reminiscent memories about various things that used to happen in the Station Road era and no longer do, but also things happening now and in the future that a professional rugby league club proactive in the community could help them with. These were tangible things, with a real impact on young people especially.

We embodied what can be done with the Performing Arts Showcase, consisted of kids doing various bits of music and dance at Park Lane in partnership with Swinton High School and facilitated by teachers plus volunteers. Doesn't sound much but it was a great success and a genuine win-win outcome. Lots of people went to the ground that day that otherwise wouldn't have even known there was a match on. But the best outcome of all was talking both at the game and afterwards to the kids and teachers about what they had got out of the experience - the evidence of which was clear from smiles and excitement. If that's irrelevant then the cause really is lost.

As you correctly observe I'm far from the world's best diplomat. I don't seek popularity. Neither do I seek power. But there are causes I believe in. Sometimes a cause needs someone prepared to challenge the status quo without any longing for personal advancement, and that's what I sought to do. The message to the MP at the time (now the Mayor), Leader and Deputy Leader of the Council was simple - "Why aren't YOU guys doing anything about this clear longing in the heart of the community you are supposed to represent?". Backed by the observation that future generations would miss out, if they weren't prepared to act.

That whole dialog was also very relevant. as it revealed some of the reasons why the land lay in the way it did. There was a lot of negativity towards Swinton Lions, driven by dented egos, noses put out of joint by Malcolm White inparticular and mismanagement of Swinton Lions in general. Tellingly, the focus wasn't on the feelings of the COMMUNITY, a massive problem being that key players weren't looking beyond their upset at past actions of rogues. They weren't looking at what was best for the area, they were focussed instead on relative pettyness.

So the conclusion has to be that things don't need to be like that. Getting Swinton Lions back into the community is achievable. Whats needed to achieve it is political will, focus on the right things and hard work. There is no good reason why Swinton Lions cannot ultimately be just as good a club as Featherstone, Leigh, Halifax etc. The community contains a big number of people that still miss the club to this day and would enjoy backing Swinton Lions once again, if only the club was made relevant to them.

To this end, having given it a massive amount of thought, I've concluded its important Swinton Lions don't succeed by going down this route of pushing the limits of partnership with Warrington so far that the identity of the team is damaged. Without a doubt I would hate for other Championship clubs to feel oblidged to follow suit in order to compete, as the end result of that would be complete annihilation of the semi pro game in this country. I value the semi pro game and want it to thrive. Sadly the current evidence is that Paul Kidd et al are more interested in rubbing shoulders with the Super League fraternity than they are in knuckling down to the hard and relatively unglamourous work that is needed to address the real things holding back both Swinton Lions and aspects of life in the community whose name the club continues to bear. So I find it hard to give their regime my backing any longer.

I don't have those problems when handing over admission money to Leigh Centurians. At least doing that my support for the game won't be lost entirely.

And yes, I may still visit the forum. Reason being that I would still like to see a Swinton Lions club based in the community and benefitting the community. That's the same reason why I visited the forum but not Gigg Lane for a few years - the two things were incompatible to the point that Malcolm White's Chairmanship ending was a prerequisite for any progress. So to me it made sense to do what I could to speed up that process. Equally I now hope this link with Warrington fails, otherwise I suspect the Lions will probably end up playing at Halliwell Jones and that will be that.

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P.S. I agree Dave expresses himself better than I, but we are both passionate Swinton Lions supporters of many years standing and both have expressed heart felt upset at the way this link up is being embarked on.

That really OUGHT to ring some alarm bells very loudly.

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You asked about our heritage and community projects

Those are the answers

Do you really think if we came on your forum asking how do you afford hardman saxton etc on your crowds we would receive a friendly reception? . That I'd agree with you calling me silly because I dont bow down and say your point is hugely valid?

I've said all along I dont have the answers but I'm prepared to keep an open mind. Its not like we've signed thackeray dowes and calderwood is it? Looking outward and inward theres so much stuff going on...who can say one club is better than another? One club is law abiding and one isn't.

You're very lucky to be a fev fan. What would happen if it goes #### up? Would you stand by your club or would you slate it?

Good luck to you too. You no doubt will be champs again. So its all good.

There is an important factor to note - the projects you have highlighted have been driven and facilitated by volunteers drawn from the support base, not by the club itself.

This is quite telling on a few levels. It goes to show; the community still misses its club; the support base has a lot of talent and ability within it, and; there's no evidence from work of the club itself available for you to highlight. Says a lot.

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If we all stopped going Phill, it would definitely be the end of Swinton Lions. We go to support our club of 147 years and counting. We go for the hope of a return to M27. As you know, it's possible, and as long as it is possible, I'll watch the Lions.

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If we all stopped going Phill, it would definitely be the end of Swinton Lions. We go to support our club of 147 years and counting. We go for the hope of a return to M27. As you know, it's possible, and as long as it is possible, I'll watch the Lions.

I just cannot find it within myself to give backing to this totally cynical and very damaging way of trying to undercut other clubs in the league by prostituting the club as a glorified reserve side for Warrington, no matter how successful that team proves to be. Its just wrong. No more Swinton matches for me unless the situation changes. Very very sad day on a personal level, but c'est la vie.

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I will be attending today maybe someone will present a realistic argument for me to attend again.Otherwise it will be my last game as well,I feel exactly the same as Phil about the arrangement.

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Your entitled to your opinion Phil. Fact is the majority of those Warrington players are signed on for a seasons loan,making them very much Swinton players.

I hope you enjoy Leigh and look forward to seeing you on Good Friday.

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Interstingly Dewsbury have signed Karl Pryce

I wonder if they're "cheating."

One thing I've been considering in all this is that we have not signed anyone directly from super league like this ie a regular first teamer.

The two main detracting sets of fans in this discussion are from Workington and Featherstone. ..who both have.

Why is signing youngsters and giving them a go worse than signing journey men mercenaries?

Just a question. ...

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Mark nobody has mentioned cheating.I just think we are now setti g a precedent for clubs below Super League to become fully fledged feeder clubs allowing Championship clubs to field a large majority of players affiliated to another club.Why weren't the players signed as DRs three weeks ago not announced as permanent deals until a couple of days ago to me as a means of allowing the three established SL players to be included. if this is the future for clubs below Super League then I don't want to be involved in it to be honest.Fully respect other fans views who just want to see the best players in a Swinton shirt .

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Had Swinton signed loan players from a number of clubd, would this discussion arose.?

It seems to me the fact we have taken a number of players from one club that is causing the issues for some.

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Had Swinton signed loan players from a number of clubs,would this discussion arose.?

It seems to me the fact we have taken a number of players from one club that is causing the issues for some.

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Not sure Al but dress it up however you want and potentially we could be fielding eleven Warrington players in our line up .Its the feeder club system so prevalent in Australia and to me my club is helping promote it and I don't like it.

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I know this Dave but the fact of the matter is unless we find a sugar daddy with a very large pocket we will always be looking at journey men players or taking players on one season deals which seems the norm at Championship level.

In an ideal world we would be running an A team and allow us to accommodate our own players but sadly for many reasons already rightly highlighted by Phil we can't.

I admire both Phil's yours and any other fan who stand for their principles.

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Mark and marshy1 I think you are both either being very naive (which I don't really believe) or you are choosing to be rather obtuse about the thrux of the problem.

Mark, you are quite right this is about Swinton signing a number of young lads but until this week they were all contracted to Warrington in Super League. I believe one of them, maybe more, only signed a 3 year contract with Warrington in November!!!! Now we are all to believe that these are genuine signings by your club who most of you are agreeing don't have two pennies spare to rub together. Do you for one minute think that these signings haven't got a number of conditions attached to them about these players returning to Warrington after this season is over?

marshy1, your club could have loaned players from various clubs but you would still only have been able to play no more than 5 in any matchday 17. That is why your club and Warrington have started this charade of "signing" these 6 young lads, i.e. to get round the loan process as laid down in the rules. Everyone, including you and Mark, I suspect know this to be the case and although you may feel that there is nothing wrong in what has been done it is the harm it will do to the game of rugby league for the future, not just at Swinton, that we all should be worrying about.

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I can understand the concerns about the system overall which has been put in place by the RFL, I would love to see 13 home-grown M27 lads on the pitch at all times, but why would any supporter stop supporting and watching the team they love because the club, as a professional club, are the club ahead of the game?

I'm sure, had Swinton sat back and let other clubs take the lead in this latest RFL meddling saga, we'd have had the same people on the forum slating the club for not being proactive.

If you don't like the rules the governing body of a sport set then have a go at the governing body, don't punish the club you support and love!

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Keith, look at the Higson transfer last season, it's just the same and no issues were raised then at all.

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I'm not too sure that the governing body envisaged the rules being utilised quite like Swinton Lions have done.As I've said I'm very passionate about my club and after this it would feel as though I was supporting something I didn't believe in.

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The same rules are available to every other club which makes it a level playing field,if some clubs don't want to take up the option that is their choice, as a club we have done nothing more than utilise the rules as laid out by the RFL.

As Paul says, anyone's gripe should be aimed at the RFL. Can we please now get on with some rugby time to set off to watch The Lions.

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