Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kenilworth Tiger

Paul Wood playing for Swinton Sunday

102 posts in this topic

The six Warrington players all signed "apparently" as DR players earlier in the close season now appear to all be fully registered Swinton players now allowing them to bring in other players as DR players.

There can only be one reason for this and that is a deliberate ploy to get round the system. No doubt come the end of the season the six players will all go back to being Warrington players again.

The DR system is now in disarray in many fans opinions and needs sorting if it is to mean anything.

The other Warrington players are still listed as Warrington players on their site, is it possible that they are on loan at Swinton rather than DR? If so the wording of the article would be technically accurate and they would still 'only' be able to use 5 of them?

EDIT: Scrub that, having had a proper look this morning I now see that 8 of the 19 man squad are 'Wire' players, so either Swinton are planning on playing with 16 players or at least 6 of the Wire players will be playing..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once again the RFL have made a mess of things. I dont blame Swinton or Warrington for this. The original plan was I am sure for top youngsters to play at a higher standard and not for Internationals to get game time coming back from injury.

I find it hard to believe that was the original plan for this system. Up to and including last season we had an age limit, 23 I think. The only reason I can see for scrapping it is that it was always intended that this new system could and would be used in precisely this way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking a different tack here, if the salary cap was working fully, these two top class players would be playing for another Super League club.

The fact that Warrington are able to stockpile so much talent (the depth of their squad is ridiculous) suggests something is amiss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised Wood has the balls to turn out at all. :unsure:

If players are registered to play they are entitled to play, if there are problems with the system then as time goes on the rules will be tightened, the Salary Cap is continually tweaked as it goes along. Its no good starting off over restrictive, start off more open and then clamp down on actual abuuses of a system rather than spend a fortune trying to write laws that cover every possible eventuality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really can't see the problem here. Don't we want to see the best rugby league players playing, and don't we as fans of a club, want to watch the best team our club can put out?

If Wigan wanted to send Sam Tomkins to Wakey for a month's loan, I wouldn't be moaning about team morale, that's what the coach gets paid for. I'd just be chuffed that a player like Sam Tomkins (rather than Richie Mathers - no offence!) would be playing full-back for my team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking a different tack here, if the salary cap was working fully, these two top class players would be playing for another Super League club.

The fact that Warrington are able to stockpile so much talent (the depth of their squad is ridiculous) suggests something is amiss.

Taking a different tack here, if the salary cap was working fully, these two top class players would be playing for another Super League club.

The fact that Warrington are able to stockpile so much talent (the depth of their squad is ridiculous) suggests something is amiss.

Are you saying Warrington are indulging in dodgy salary cap practices?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am so easy to wind up, but not tonight Finn, did you have someone else post this for you? Your Cousin/Girlfriend*? Someone who can spell?

*Probably the same

I expected an answer explaining what Swinton had offered the game in the last 21 years, not personal abuse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really can't see the problem here. Don't we want to see the best rugby league players playing, and don't we as fans of a club, want to watch the best team our club can put out?

If Wigan wanted to send Sam Tomkins to Wakey for a month's loan, I wouldn't be moaning about team morale, that's what the coach gets paid for. I'd just be chuffed that a player like Sam Tomkins (rather than Richie Mathers - no offence!) would be playing full-back for my team.

How would you feel about the credibility of SL if Wigan bent the rules and supplied Cas with eleven players for certain games which meant that your team missed out on the top eight? Can you really not see a problem here in the Championship??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would you feel about the credibility of SL if Wigan bent the rules and supplied Cas with eleven players for certain games which meant that your team missed out on the top eight? Can you really not see a problem here in the Championship??

No team can turn out 11 DR players though can they so your scenario is just nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't agree to any of the dr option wot about the lads who train with your team busting a gut trying to earn a starting spot only to find out that a so called sl frindge player gets his starting place just because he needs game time ???? its all wrong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't agree to any of the dr option wot about the lads who train with your team busting a gut trying to earn a starting spot only to find out that a so called sl frindge player gets his starting place just because he needs game time ???? its all wrong

So you take out the 5 DR players and the club needs to replace them with 5 quality players to top up the squad. Those 5 players you bring in then push out the lads who train with your team busting a gut to earn a starting spot only to find the club has spent money it doesn't have on players to keep you out. So they are then in exactly the same situation, except the club has a bigger wage bill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No team can turn out 11 DR players though can they so your scenario is just nonsense.

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

Exactly. It's not rocket science is it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No team can turn out 11 DR players though can they so your scenario is just nonsense.

No, it isn't nonsense. I know full well that only 5 DR players are allowed but Warrington and Swinton have flaunted the rule to enable as many as 11 to play. That's the point if you care to think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that's exactly the point - Swinton have found a way around that which means they can field 11 Wire players. Of course, technically the original 6 are now registered as Swinton's own players so they will still only be fielding 5 DR players. Do you believe that these 6 players have given up full time SL contracts to go part time at Swinton ? Do you believe that Swinton are paying their contracts ? Do you believe Wire have no further interest in their development ? Do you believe Swinton could sell any of these players ?

Swinton have signed 6 players they are no longer dual reg, they are Swinton players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swinton have signed 6 players they are no longer dual reg, they are Swinton players.

I already said that. But I notice you failed to answer any of the questions which speaks volumes. Furthermore, leaving the Championship issues aside, this system is wide open to salary cap abuse by SL clubs which I'm surprised you're not concerned about. A SL club can now use Championship clubs as a holding area for players by registering them with the Championship club and using their salary cap as an extension to their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't agree to any of the dr option wot about the lads who train with your team busting a gut trying to earn a starting spot only to find out that a so called sl frindge player gets his starting place just because he needs game time ???? its all wrong

Doesn't really seem to apply here though does it, as Swinton don't appear to have signed enough players to put a team out without Warrington's assistance. Wrong imo but that's now within the rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really can't see the problem here. Don't we want to see the best rugby league players playing, and don't we as fans of a club, want to watch the best team our club can put out?

If Wigan wanted to send Sam Tomkins to Wakey for a month's loan, I wouldn't be moaning about team morale, that's what the coach gets paid for. I'd just be chuffed that a player like Sam Tomkins (rather than Richie Mathers - no offence!) would be playing full-back for my team.

The problem, as I see it, isn't the presence of players like Wood & McCarthy more the almost certain lack of consistency of their availability. If we were talking about a series of exhibition games I might take your point about simply seeing the 'best available' players, but we are talking about a professional league. I can't see that it doesn't undermine the competition if one week Swinton borrow players of the quality and experience of Wood & McCarthy then in a couple of weeks, having got them match fit, they borrow a couple of 20 yr olds with no 1st team experience who aren't good enough to make Wire's squad.

On your Tomkins analogy, would you still be comfortable if Tomkins hadn't played a game for 4 months, was only available 1 week at a time until he was fully fit and Wakey were under instruction that he could only play 40 mins in the initial game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swinton in last weeks RL Express had a squad of 17 players which did not include any of the six young players from Warrington that they stated were signed as dual registered players. Fans on their own website were saying that they couldn't afford to sign many players because they are trying to get their own ground at Agecroft.

Suddenly, the announce a 19 mansquad for this week which includes the six young players plus 3 more from Warrington (Woods, McCarthy & Laithwaite) and say that these 3 are dual registered players. It is then stated that the six young players are now fully signed on by Swinton thereby freeing up the places for another 5 dual registered players to be brought in.

I don't think anyone needs a rocket science degree to see what is happening and it is a means of getting round this new system that has never looked safe because of a lack of thought and rules until late on. These six players are in anyone's book "loanees" as they will end up back on Warrington's books at the end of the season. They can't be called "loanees" because the Championship clubs in these partnerships can only play 5 DR players or 5 loanees or a combination of DR or loan players up to 5 in any one matchday 17 players.

Other clubs take players on 12 month loans or sign players on 12 month contracts but not all from the same club and certainly not from the same club that they are partnered with. If all the clubs that have a partnership with a SL club do the same thing as Swinton and Warrington have done then the feeder club system is well established and the game will lose many fans, like myself who just don't want any part of being just a reserve team for others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swinton in last weeks RL Express had a squad of 17 players which did not include any of the six young players from Warrington that they stated were signed as dual registered players. Fans on their own website were saying that they couldn't afford to sign many players because they are trying to get their own ground at Agecroft.

Suddenly, the announce a 19 mansquad for this week which includes the six young players plus 3 more from Warrington (Woods, McCarthy & Laithwaite) and say that these 3 are dual registered players. It is then stated that the six young players are now fully signed on by Swinton thereby freeing up the places for another 5 dual registered players to be brought in.

I don't think anyone needs a rocket science degree to see what is happening and it is a means of getting round this new system that has never looked safe because of a lack of thought and rules until late on. These six players are in anyone's book "loanees" as they will end up back on Warrington's books at the end of the season. They can't be called "loanees" because the Championship clubs in these partnerships can only play 5 DR players or 5 loanees or a combination of DR or loan players up to 5 in any one matchday 17 players.

Other clubs take players on 12 month loans or sign players on 12 month contracts but not all from the same club and certainly not from the same club that they are partnered with. If all the clubs that have a partnership with a SL club do the same thing as Swinton and Warrington have done then the feeder club system is well established and the game will lose many fans, like myself who just don't want any part of being just a reserve team for others.

Lack of respect for the credibility of the Championship Keith and both clubs are guilty. It will be interesting to see what develops from this. Will the RFL choose to step in and close down the loop holes???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its taken my club 10 seasons of graft to get to a higher level this season.

There are signs that this could all be unravelled by the madness of the DR system.

The situation at Swinton could mean that clubs overspend to be able to compete with Warrington reserves.

The RFL will be spending more time monitoring the Championship salary cap than the SL one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What evidence does anyone have that the players concerned are still "on Warrington's books" as is being claimed?

This would be in clear breach of all regulations and wouldn't take the RFL more than 5 minutes to uncover so would simply be a stupid move on behalf of both clubs. The salary cap regulations, amongst others prevent such sleights of hand, surely?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.warringtonwolves.org/first-team

Looks like Ormsby, Bridge, Mendieka and Riley are in the First Team squad at Warrington, not Swinton?

On Swintons website the only DR players are Wood, McCarthy and Laithwaite. Ormsby, Bridge, Mendieka and Riley are described as new signings at Swinton.

Which club are those 4 signed for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swinton have signed 6 players they are no longer dual reg, they are Swinton players.

One of the six, maybe more, signed a 3 year contract with Warrington in November!!! Don't you think that strange that they are now "officially" Swinton players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - June 2017

League Express - Mon 17th July 2017