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Lobbygobbler

Worrying SL score margins

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well saints played there part . they at least refused to score many points for which we should give them a big cheer

It was noble of them, don't you think?

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Its incredibly good. I cant believe how quickly 80 mins of top level RL goes by after spending the off season watching other sports. Love it.

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maybe playing some warm up games with the NRL would help

The NRL is the root cause of the problem. They pushed to increase the 5m rule to 10m, without any prolongued trial period or consequence analysis. I think they were also instrumental in ditching competitive scrummaging and increasing the number if subs/interchanges. These rule changes have had massive implications for RL on a global scale. I think 10m is far too much for a retreating defence, and has made it far easier to score. It has more more emphasis on the defence having to get back 10m which is fatiguing but not essentially a core rugby league skill. However cracking open a shorter defence line by guile has become eroded by the likes of cheap dummy runs. The scrum was another leveller and added uncertainty.

All this has combined to widen score margins and lesson the chance of upsets -the very essence of spectator sport excitement.

I think the game needs to look at reducing the 10m rule to perhaps 7m (or dare I say it but perhaps adding a 14th man) to make it a little harder to score and I would like proper scrums brought back but only for non-mistakes (i.e.grubbers).

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I would like proper scrums brought back but only for non-mistakes (i.e.grubbers).

The bit in red makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

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i dont think changing the rules to accomodate ordinary teams is the way forward.

The Wigan scoreline was always potentially going to happen. Hull were very good defensively for 60mins, and they capitulation was more a mental thing than technical or physical, they knew they had nothing going forward. St. Helens just didn't prepare well enough and maybe didn't expect Hudds to perform as well as they did. For me thats the way it was..

if we're seeing regular big scores on the same teams its more a case of the team not being prepared to strive to attain a similar playing level of their opposition. be it pre-season, during the season or during matches.

Rules don't need changing, attitudes do.

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This is similar to a point I made in the "Seriously underwhelming" thread, stating that as a league Super League is not actually get any more competitive. I posted these facts:

NRL 2012. Difference between #1 and #16 - 24 points.

NRL 2012. Difference between #2 and #15 - just 18 points.

SL 2012. Difference between #1 and #14 - 30 points.

NRL 2012. MATCH POINTS difference between best and worst - 461

SL 2012. MATCH POINTS difference between best and worst - a ridiculous 1,095

Although somebody quite rightly made the point that the NRL has a different number of games. But my point was that if SL is to grow and overall get better than the 50-0 games need to be weeded out. If the latter figures does down to 700-800 than it will be good for the game.

Saying that I don't know to what extent Widnes alone make on that last statistic - I seem to remember Warrington, Saints, Catalans, Hudds posting 70+ scores.

I saw Leeds and Saints and thought they were great games. Didn't see Salford v Wigan but it certainly doesn't dound like I missed much. I would like to think that every team in SL before the match feels they have the potential to win and don't go out simply thinking about minimising the scoring. Does that currently happen?? Who knows. Competition is what drives all sport at the end of the day.

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I think this may help doubters understand Lobby's points. Listen

He sees himself as some sort of latter day Horatius Cocles at the bridge.

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Me and my brother were discussing this very point last night. I don't have the statistics from previous seasons but it does seem there are (last season at least) more blow-out scorelines than there used to be. At tthe start of Super League as a competition there were plenty of blow-out scorelines too but, crucially, when any of the 'big four' played you always seemed to get a good game. I think what is happening now is that games between the top sides in the league are now also becoming blow-outs. This, I think, is down to the ludicrous play-off system. If a team is down very early by say three scores away from home after 20 minutes whatever you may say about being professional and so forth the temptation is to psychologically turn it in, remembering that all you have to do is get in the top 8 (with a less than 50% win record) and you have a chance of winning the championship; hence some very one sided scorelines. Has the Championships bonus point system eradicated this problem at the lower levels somewhat?

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This is similar to a point I made in the "Seriously underwhelming" thread, stating that as a league Super League is not actually get any more competitive. I posted these facts:

NRL 2012. Difference between #1 and #16 - 24 points.

NRL 2012. Difference between #2 and #15 - just 18 points.

SL 2012. Difference between #1 and #14 - 30 points.

NRL 2012. MATCH POINTS difference between best and worst - 461

SL 2012. MATCH POINTS difference between best and worst - a ridiculous 1,095

Although somebody quite rightly made the point that the NRL has a different number of games. But my point was that if SL is to grow and overall get better than the 50-0 games need to be weeded out. If the latter figures does down to 700-800 than it will be good for the game.

Saying that I don't know to what extent Widnes alone make on that last statistic - I seem to remember Warrington, Saints, Catalans, Hudds posting 70+ scores.

I saw Leeds and Saints and thought they were great games. Didn't see Salford v Wigan but it certainly doesn't dound like I missed much. I would like to think that every team in SL before the match feels they have the potential to win and don't go out simply thinking about minimising the scoring. Does that currently happen?? Who knows. Competition is what drives all sport at the end of the day.

The current rules only allow close margins if teams are very well matched in terms of the type of skills needed for the constant running back and forward - something easy to do in the NRL as it is the national sport,but ###### elsewhere around the world. The current rules are geared to the NRL only. IMO they will eventually push to change the rules towards a 15metre 11-a-side game as players become even more accustomed to the 10m rule. Effectively moving away from core rugby league to some sort of Superhuman game. Unfortunately, this will make the game even harder to play and mean Aussie teams will never be beaten thus leading to an isolated sport like American Football.

Why the hell should we follow the NRL? Lets get them to follow us

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It was noble of them, don't you think?

it was but i think you could perhaps do with getting brian noble there as well

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Well we've had two opening SL games, both of which were high score margins. This is not good for RL.

We'll probably see close score margins in the Six Nations to make matters worse. People will forgive the fact that the games will be boring.

Is it time to start looking at ways of making scores closer e.g. by reducing to 10m rule? Even if it is at the cost of a more open game...

Terrible these blow out scores eh Lobby? ;)

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I have barely posted on this forum for the best part of a year.

So I decide to check it out and I see a post by Lobbygobbler blaming the games problems on the 10m rule and making out like it is a new insightful point. Good to see things have changed...

There have been blowouts this weekend but only the Wigan and Warrington (debateable if it even was) were really predictable. Huddersfield certainly wasn't and nor was Bradford. Leeds as has been pointed out, was competitive for a long time before Leeds pulled away.

Blowouts are a feature of the modern game and don't always show the real nature of a game as with Leeds and Hull. If we had seen 7 predictable victories this weekend in uncompetitive fixtures then there might be something to worry about. As it was we saw some really interesting things, such as two of the blowouts coming from very unexpected quarters (Bradford and Huddersfield) and a shock Widnes victory away at London.

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As an aside, it is of course statistically ridiculous to draw any conclusions after a few rounds never mind 2 games.

Even if there were the exact same number of blowouts every year then it is statistically a certainty that one year will see a higher than average percentage in the first rounds, just as it is a certainty that one year will see almost none in the first few rounds. They aren't evenly distributed every year.

You really can't draw real conclusions until you have a statistically significant sample to draw from.

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Shhhh!! What's that? The sound of silence? Fev in a blowout? Against Lobby's team? Worrevah next? :)

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The Wigan score was inevitable, Leeds score not so much of a blow out. You just wait until Sunday and Broncos 60 point win over Widnes.

Lol

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As an aside, it is of course statistically ridiculous to draw any conclusions after a few rounds never mind 2 games.

Even if there were the exact same number of blowouts every year then it is statistically a certainty that one year will see a higher than average percentage in the first rounds, just as it is a certainty that one year will see almost none in the first few rounds. They aren't evenly distributed every year.

You really can't draw real conclusions until you have a statistically significant sample to draw from.

I agree entirely. Clearly, you really can't draw real conclusions from just a few games on opening days. But when has reality ever fuelled Lobby's opinions?

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This week I 'ave mostly been thinking... blow-outs score are BRILLIANT!

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People seem to have in their heads that sports provide game after game of classic encounters. They simply don't.

Football has game after game of really quite average sport. They then have a few classics and the odd finish to the season like last year, which was sporting drama at its very finest.

RU has game after game of terrible sport. Penalty after penalty - they then have the odd close finish which makes people forget about the previous 75 minutes!

Tennis has walkover after walkover during Wimbledon and the major tournaments.

We seem to have this complex about us, and if we get a poor game or a one-sided clash then we have an issue and things need changing. TBH I love watching almost all games of RL - very few bore me. Even one sided walkovers have big hits, great tries, lovely passing moves etc. We never ever get a completely boring 0-0 draw where nothing at all happens like we get in football, or a penalty fest like we get in Union.

It's repeated quite often, but even a 'poor' game of RL is more entertaining than most games of Union and Football to me.

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I overheared a Leigh fan come out with a great suggestion at today's game, just after Fev had gone 22 nil up. Perhaps what ought to be done is to follow the ideas often used at under-8s, whereby every time a try is scored, the team looses a player until the scoreline is evened up again*. B):lol:

*and before anyone says it, yes, I had twigged it was not a serious suggestion.

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People seem to have in their heads that sports provide game after game of classic encounters. They simply don't.

Football has game after game of really quite average sport. They then have a few classics and the odd finish to the season like last year, which was sporting drama at its very finest.

RU has game after game of terrible sport. Penalty after penalty - they then have the odd close finish which makes people forget about the previous 75 minutes!

Tennis has walkover after walkover during Wimbledon and the major tournaments.

We seem to have this complex about us, and if we get a poor game or a one-sided clash then we have an issue and things need changing. TBH I love watching almost all games of RL - very few bore me. Even one sided walkovers have big hits, great tries, lovely passing moves etc. We never ever get a completely boring 0-0 draw where nothing at all happens like we get in football, or a penalty fest like we get in Union.

It's repeated quite often, but even a 'poor' game of RL is more entertaining than most games of Union and Football to me.

I don't enjoy watching predictable processions. I didn't even when Widnes were handing them out in the Championship.

However, I would only say 1 of this weeks games falls into that category. The Leeds-Hull game was compelling before Leeds pulled away towards the end. The Huddersfield game was very enjoyable for its shock value and for Hudds performance. Much of the game was watched waiting for the inevitable Saints comeback that never materialised. Bradford finished behind Wakey last year (albeit with 1 more win) but looked to have improved greatly this year.

As for Salford-Wigan we were potentially watching 1st/2nd vs 13th/14th at the end of the year. Is it really surprising that this would result in a big score?

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I don't enjoy watching predictable processions. I didn't even when Widnes were handing them out in the Championship.

However, I would only say 1 of this weeks games falls into that category. The Leeds-Hull game was compelling before Leeds pulled away towards the end. The Huddersfield game was very enjoyable for its shock value and for Hudds performance. Much of the game was watched waiting for the inevitable Saints comeback that never materialised. Bradford finished behind Wakey last year (albeit with 1 more win) but looked to have improved greatly this year.

As for Salford-Wigan we were potentially watching 1st/2nd vs 13th/14th at the end of the year. Is it really surprising that this would result in a big score?

They may not be for everyone MD, my point is more that no sport has a majority of great games, I think we compare favourably to the majority for entertainment value - we need to be careful not to make changes when something isn't a big issue.

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They may not be for everyone MD, my point is more that no sport has a majority of great games, I think we compare favourably to the majority for entertainment value - we need to be careful not to make changes when something isn't a big issue.

I completely agree, whenever the cup final isn't a classic there are fans ready to slit their wrists.

I'm an Evertonian and recently I saw 2 games that were 0-0 and were far from classics. I envy football fans because they are secure enough to go away and either write it off as a poor game or blame their own side for playing badly. They don't feel the need to question football itself because they know it can entertain.

It is a strange phenomenon that RL fans, even though we also know it can entertain and will see plenty of entertaining games throughout the year, panic if we see a dull or a one-sided game.

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