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chinaman

How many Teams Will fail to Start/Complete Season?

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As I said above, I would love it if the game returned to winter next season but wouldn't that be a knee-jerk reaction? The current malaise in the game can't be laid totally at summer's door neither can the NCL be blamed for all the problems.

The RFL are completely unfit for purpose in the Pro & Semi-Pro levels of the game, the effects of which filter all the way down to Junior level. Most people realise this but some only come on here to continually blame the NCL and persist in preaching doom and gloom which has become repetitive and tiresome. Some regular posters have gone and others will soon follow. .

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As I said above, I would love it if the game returned to winter next season but wouldn't that be a knee-jerk reaction? The current malaise in the game can't be laid totally at summer's door neither can the NCL be blamed for all the problems.

The RFL are completely unfit for purpose in the Pro & Semi-Pro levels of the game, the effects of which filter all the way down to Junior level. Most people realise this but some only come on here to continually blame the NCL and persist in preaching doom and gloom which has become repetitive and tiresome. Some regular posters have gone and others will soon follow. .

I don't think many if any are directly blaming the NCL, The problem IMO is the NCL seem to be following the directives from the RFL by the letter and if it's obvious to us less educated morsels that one size does not fit all, I'm at a loss to why the better man can not see it as well.

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We are one game Mr B and my little mob are the start of the food chain in both the next generation of players and coaches etc but i am like many others getting very dissalusioned with the sport , the RFL simply do not understand what makes us tick , i can see beyond the carressing of the ego technique they adopt .

I see my self as part of the NCL as all our clubs have junior set ups and I like many others want our kids to have a progression right through to open age .

All the changes have and are still being driven by the RFL who pay us nothing but lip service ,its time for the the grass roots to grow some balls and resist some of the changes as they are not beneficial to the long term future of the game.

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Well then.... Methley Royals (pennine 1) 19 Leigh Miners 12 (NCL premier) proved my point very adequately yesterday!!! No doubt NCL supporters will have excuses ready but when a side in top division is beaten by side in the 3rd division are any excuses valid? Real men play winter rugby!!

Miners team v methley royals – Steven Grundy, Sean Pendlebury, Martin Gray, Andrew Hodson, Gareth Pain, Scott Travis, Steven Marsh, Kevin Howells, Tom Farrimond, Craig Connor, Chris Slater, Danny Trimble, Todd Appleby Subs – Jimmy Muir, Danny Galvin, Chris Barlow, Andy Newton

Miners team v siddal - Jonny Youds, Andrew Groves, Ross Bradley, Martin Lewis, John Woods, Liam Coleman, Scott O'Brien, Kev Howells, Danny Jones, Darryl Kay, Adam Thomason, Lee Gittins, Danny Jackson, SUBS = Tom Farrimond, Jimmy Muir, Jonny Carroll, Sean McDonald

I'm sure if that was are first team against methley the side we put out against siddal yesterday should have got a right good hiding!

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I don't think many if any are directly blaming the NCL, The problem IMO is the NCL seem to be following the directives from the RFL by the letter and if it's obvious to us less educated morsels that one size does not fit all, I'm at a loss to why the better man can not see it as well.

I agree one size does not fit all but let the clubs that wish to play in the summer play and lets stop all this self batterering that we are doing. Yes we do need to discuss the future of the game which is at the moment is in chaos no doubt the NCL clubs will discuss the Leagues future at a delagates meeting at some point and if they vote to switch back to winter IMO the turmoil will continue with the clubs that want to carry on playing in the summer not been happy so some way along the way we will probably see some clubs falling out of the NCL as we know it today. I think that the junior and youth set up need re-looking at maybe a split season but make the split season into two mini comps instead of one over a long period, ie season march - june break then sept - dec after a 2 month break player should be itching to start to play again with regards the youth serious talks need to be held with the Pro clubs and the RFL before we can move forward. some talks have taken place but as a chairman of a club I have no idea what these talks are about so that is not right. If this area of the game is not sorted very soon it will have a very big impact on our game at all levels in the near future.

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I agree one size does not fit all but let the clubs that wish to play in the summer play and lets stop all this self batterering that we are doing. Yes we do need to discuss the future of the game which is at the moment is in chaos no doubt the NCL clubs will discuss the Leagues future at a delagates meeting at some point and if they vote to switch back to winter IMO the turmoil will continue with the clubs that want to carry on playing in the summer not been happy so some way along the way we will probably see some clubs falling out of the NCL as we know it today. I think that the junior and youth set up need re-looking at maybe a split season but make the split season into two mini comps instead of one over a long period, ie season march - june break then sept - dec after a 2 month break player should be itching to start to play again with regards the youth serious talks need to be held with the Pro clubs and the RFL before we can move forward. some talks have taken place but as a chairman of a club I have no idea what these talks are about so that is not right. If this area of the game is not sorted very soon it will have a very big impact on our game at all levels in the near future.

The problem with discussing anything at the community game level now is the RFL influence and it's this influence why we're at this point now.

BARLA district leagues have been holding meetings and started to communicate better with each other, if they can keep egos out of it and continue to think about the game and others like it has been at the meetings I can see the association moving back to what it has been in the past.

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The problem with discussing anything at the community game level now is the RFL influence and it's this influence why we're at this point now.

BARLA district leagues have been holding meetings and started to communicate better with each other, if they can keep egos out of it and continue to think about the game and others like it has been at the meetings I can see the association moving back to what it has been in the past.

Which district leagues are these Marauder ones in Yorkshire? Until there are big changes at the BARLA top table theres no chance of them being able to restore the organisation to its former state

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Which district leagues are these Marauder ones in Yorkshire? Until there are big changes at the BARLA top table theres no chance of them being able to restore the organisation to its former state

And a few from Lancashire, apologies where also accepted from cumbria, Lancs and Hull.

It was mentioned that new younger blood was needed to take the association forward along with a few other things including that we the district leagues have been letting BARLA down as much as they have been letting us down, lack of communication seemed to be the key.

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The bigger picture you are painting is the same which ever season the game is played. NCL 'A' teams always lose players to the first team whether through injury, suspension or personal reasons. The minimum criteria is met by running the A team, there is no penalty from the NCL if a second team cannot fulfil a fixture. (There may be from their playing league but I haven't checked.).

I enjoyed Miners v Siddal yesterday but I would love it if the NCL returned to winter because it suits me personally, but sadly Marauder, you and your fellow whingers are doing your cause harm by your continual sniping at the NCL. I won't be long before you lot are talking to yourselves on here.

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Thank you for your illuminating post. To sum up then the MC criteria is met by simply stating a club is Running a A team by, on the face of it, having sufficient players but the A team don't actually have to play as a team becuase it doesn't matter to the NCL as the A team is just there to provide enough players to meet 1st team fixtures!! No wonder RL participation is going downhill fast at least the dozem or so A team players who have no team to play for each week will have plenty of spare time in the summer!

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Why are there minimum criteria ?

Maybe it's to ensure that the most solid , well organised , best financed clubs in the amateur game are able to ensure that their first teams can play without numbers issues in a competitive environment attracting a local support base that enjoys a quality product. And that that ethos spreads down throughout each individual club to benefit the game as a whole.

On the other hand by all means whinge if a club occasionally drops a second team fixture ( feeding the first team is one of the reasons for it's existence in the NCL context in the first place ) . No doubt you'll be complaining of the lack of scoreboard next.........

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Why are there minimum criteria ?

Maybe it's to ensure that the most solid , well organised , best financed clubs in the amateur game are able to ensure that their first teams can play without numbers issues in a competitive environment attracting a local support base that enjoys a quality product. And that that ethos spreads down throughout each individual club to benefit the game as a whole.

On the other hand by all means whinge if a club occasionally drops a second team fixture ( feeding the first team is one of the reasons for it's existence in the NCL context in the first place ) . No doubt you'll be complaining of the lack of scoreboard next.........

But correct me if i am wrong Peter did the move to Summer selling points include " increased participation leading to less games being cancelled to unavailabilty of players !!!!!!!

If clubs were " Solid ,well organised best financed " then surely they would be able to field a second and youth team every week or are some not " Solid ,well organised and best financed " ?

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Probably did Taxi Egg

Not seen any stats myself to say different but you don't seem to dispute my points .What I will say is this , that if the NCL struggle to manage their aspirational structures then God help the rest of the game.....

You are part of one of the great NCL clubs. If Miners have a problem then spit it out on their behalf. I don't think personally they have or I would have heard about it by now.......

If the ' little mob ' you Chair have issues with how the NCL operate , and especially on the lack of feeder teams to support the NCL sides then you will find the NCL more than willing to engage in conversation.........and if it's your League that feeds the whole game in the North West , ( your rightly held view ) then is it perhaps not that levels fault that things might be going wrong higher up the chain ? Maybe far to few players in your systems in the first place ? :unsure:

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Serious question for you Taxi Egg

Would you encourage or even allow any new team , certainly in the heartlands, to start up without a commitment to a youth and junior set up ?

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Serious question for you Taxi Egg

Would you encourage or even allow any new team , certainly in the heartlands, to start up without a commitment to a youth and junior set up ?

How can you stop a team starting up either in the heartlands or expansion area.

Many people get involved with amateur rugby league because they love the sport and not the limelight; many players play the sport on a social basis from a pub or workingmen’s club and don't want to get involved in the politics.

How can you blame a LITTLE MOB that runs a junior/youth league for whats going on further up the food chain, who has allowed elite team building, who has allowed the RFL to take all the elite players and play them during the junior/youth season leaving teams without enough players to fulfil fixtures, how I see it it's the community board who are at fault for allowing the undermining of the hand that feeds on the park in favour of the hand that feeds travel.

Could the reasons for far to few players in the system be something to do with the time of the year they now play?

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Serious question for you Taxi Egg

Would you encourage or even allow any new team , certainly in the heartlands, to start up without a commitment to a youth and junior set up ?

Do not see the relevance of your question Peter but I will answer it , If I was running the NCL then no ?

Now could you answer the question I posed based on your points Peter ?

If clubs were " Solid ,well organised best financed " then surely they would be able to field a second and youth team every week or are some not " Solid ,well organised and best financed " ?

My view is my view and Leigh Miners at both Open Age and Youth and Junior have strong enough people to speak for themselves , I am like you now Peter an independant :dry:

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Peter we introduced a winter break several years ago ( the only area in Y& J to do so ) and saw year on year steady growth in numbers .

Last year the game moved to Summer a move I and many others raised concerns against, at the Last Community Board meeting you and others approved the results of a review which again I and others have chalenged which has major flaws.

This year we have seen a major drop in registrations and the figures are alarming ,I again have raised concerns at the right channel the Youth and Junior congress but it seems to fall on deaf ears why? because its ok cos the Community Board says so.

We have lost the flagship National Youth League ,aleady teams are folding at 16-18s ( even your old club St Pats )teams and numbers are down at my little mob so you see Peter the food supply is drying up , do you as an executive of the Ncl and independant on the Community Board not have a duty of care to wake up and smell the coffee?

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Participation is down considerably, at least 25% on last season I would guestimate based on information and figures I am aware of and when the likes of St Pats forfiet their fixtures for the entire season and fold before it starts at U16's as they cannot register enough players with NWC then you really need to sit up and take note.

Last season saw the loss of a large amount of teams at youth level, approximately 50% in the NWC, this season at U18's it has been bolstered slightly due the CYL being a non starter and the U17's being scrapped, yet we are already seeing teams folding at 18's, 16's and 15's which is far from encouraging.

The Community board need to get there act together, presented with RFL reviews that are factually incorrect but seem not to warrant verification and are passed as being acceptable by the Community Board? Or is it a case of we know its not right lads but we can't say that as it will cause far too many problems, so lets just push it through and hope nobody notices its another load of pointless, worthless figures and spin, in fact everything except the bloody reality of what is going on.

Lets all play that game........................."Who can keep their head in the sand longest!!!"

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And marauder is continually castigated for pointing this out! Enough of barla being unfit, the whole concept of the community board is unfit nd undemocratic, how on earth can you have a ncl official on it as a neutral! The game is committing suicide by a thousand cuts!

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And marauder is continually castigated for pointing this out! Enough of barla being unfit, the whole concept of the community board is unfit nd undemocratic, how on earth can you have a ncl official on it as a neutral! The game is committing suicide by a thousand cuts!

I'm big enough to take it, If I was on the BARLA committee I'd be looking at some of the summer ideas from the none heartlands and taking them on board for the winter season, I'm a big fan of Tim2 and many of his ideas which border on the BARLA ethos.

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And marauder is continually castigated for pointing this out! Enough of barla being unfit, the whole concept of the community board is unfit nd undemocratic, how on earth can you have a ncl official on it as a neutral! The game is committing suicide by a thousand cuts!

The worst things BARLA done in all of this is to remove Stuart Prior as there representative on the community board, consensus seems to be that the game lacks leadership at both BARLA and CB level hopefully that can be sorted out before its too late

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Stu as been reinstated as CB rep for Barla , his replacement conceded that the job was beyond him .

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Looks like there may be a vote back to Winter on the cards after all :D :D just need to remove the blockage from the pipes

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I'm big enough to take it, If I was on the BARLA committee I'd be looking at some of the summer ideas from the none heartlands and taking them on board for the winter season, I'm a big fan of Tim2 and many of his ideas which border on the BARLA ethos.

Cheers Jim! I don't have much direct experience of BARLA other than when I asked them about starting up a summer Merit league they sent me to the RFL.

The amateur game needs a strong voice and for whatever reason BARLA lost the mandate to provide it. Many of the people I have met who are now working in the summer based leagues are ex-BARLA and simply got sick of the politics. Without that voice the pro game and the performance department could (and have shown the inclination to) ride roughshod over the amateur game without thought of the consequences.

Whatever ethos I have, it doesn't involve endless committees and rules, although I do understand why some of the BARLA rules, which seem to be obscure and a "barrier" to people doing what they want, came into being.

I am a big fan of playing junior rugby in the summer for all the obvious reasons. We at my club have been doing it for 5 years now and it can work, but I can see how managing the transition at Youth and Open Age is far more complicated. It's just a shame that views have become so polarised that everyone now seems to have blinkers on.

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Its not about summer/ winter its about getting the playing season right March to November is clearly not working for the majority of the game , but we have no one in the game at the top brave enough to admit it . And the result will be devastating in the Long run putting all your eggs in one basket was not the best call .

So come on that MAN step forward and be brave ,

Could we have an "i,m sparticus " moment , i doubt it .

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