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John Drake

10/02/13 - Widnes Vikings v St Helens - KO 3pm

Who will win?   13 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Widnes Vikings
      6
    • St Helens
      7
    • Draw
      0

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95 posts in this topic

Wilkin was shocking last week, becoming a bit of a thug, always has been a PITA, he niggles all game, but always seems to be invisible to Refs.

HW

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Hilariously, Ray French and Alan Rooney on Radio Merseyside had no idea Cross had been sent off. It's only since I've switched over to the Radio Manchester phone-in now that I've learnt he went off.

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Well I never usually bag the Ref's, but today he was awful. Constant holding down by Saints, then when we do it he penalises us!

Plus the sending off and sin-binning incident. I didn't exactly see what happened, but I think we tackled a Saints player high. About 4 Saints players ran in, a big scrap followed, and we go down to 11.

We must have been fighting with ourselves.............

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I think we tackled a Saints player high. About 4 Saints players ran in, a big scrap followed, and we go down to 11.

Saints have used this tactic successfully to get players sent off for years.

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Ok, here's the reply from the bitter Widnes fan... I'll leave the discussion of the referee until the end.

The game was by no means a thriller. Widnes were strong in defence and St Helens were poor as even their own fans would admit. Up to the 60th minute they had all the field position and possession of the ball yet rarely looked like scoring. They eventually scored when Widnes had 11 men and after 3 sets on the line, with Gaskell walking through the limited numbers. The third try was off the back of a Widnes mistake; a poor offload in our own 30 and it fell to a Saints player to walk in. For the amount of dominance they were extremely poor in attack and without improvement they will get a beating against Wigan, Leeds or Wire. Widnes had so little field position throughout the game and to be fair had little go forward but we had very little chance to test Saints on their own line.

So to James Childs... Trust in Widnes forum is united for the first time in its history tonight after an almost incredible performance. The first half was marred by incredibly slow play the balls and a high penalty count against Widnes. I'm not too bothered about missed knock ons or the sending off (I would dispute the sin-binning) but for me the big problem was the holding down.

What we saw was Huddersfield and Wigan from a few years back. Under the guise of 'good technique,' Saints were allowed to slow nearly every play the ball. I've heard the arguments about why this is so but it was blatantly wrong today. It didn't matter whether Saints worked the player onto his back and were dominant or whether the Widnes player had hit the floor onto his front and was trying to get up, Childs let Saints hold as long as they liked. What incensed Widnes fans the most was one instance where we tried it after dominating the tackle and worked a player onto his back only to get pinged for it. The result was that Widnes were never able to get a quick PTB and Saints set their line at every tackle. It resulted in an incredibly slow first half where Widnes couldn't get going and Saints were clueless of how to take advantage of a 9-3 penalty count.

Childs seemed to almost stubbornly revel in this and continued to penalise Widnes only to continually ignore Saints spoiling tactics. I fear the next few weeks will end up being dominated by this issue as certain teams continue to slow the PTB down claiming that they are using good tackling technique.

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Ok, here's the reply from the bitter Widnes fan... I'll leave the discussion of the referee until the end.

The game was by no means a thriller. Widnes were strong in defence and St Helens were poor as even their own fans would admit. Up to the 60th minute they had all the field position and possession of the ball yet rarely looked like scoring. They eventually scored when Widnes had 11 men and after 3 sets on the line, with Gaskell walking through the limited numbers. The third try was off the back of a Widnes mistake; a poor offload in our own 30 and it fell to a Saints player to walk in. For the amount of dominance they were extremely poor in attack and without improvement they will get a beating against Wigan, Leeds or Wire. Widnes had so little field position throughout the game and to be fair had little go forward but we had very little chance to test Saints on their own line.

So to James Childs... Trust in Widnes forum is united for the first time in its history tonight after an almost incredible performance. The first half was marred by incredibly slow play the balls and a high penalty count against Widnes. I'm not too bothered about missed knock ons or the sending off (I would dispute the sin-binning) but for me the big problem was the holding down.

What we saw was Huddersfield and Wigan from a few years back. Under the guise of 'good technique,' Saints were allowed to slow nearly every play the ball. I've heard the arguments about why this is so but it was blatantly wrong today. It didn't matter whether Saints worked the player onto his back and were dominant or whether the Widnes player had hit the floor onto his front and was trying to get up, Childs let Saints hold as long as they liked. What incensed Widnes fans the most was one instance where we tried it after dominating the tackle and worked a player onto his back only to get pinged for it. The result was that Widnes were never able to get a quick PTB and Saints set their line at every tackle. It resulted in an incredibly slow first half where Widnes couldn't get going and Saints were clueless of how to take advantage of a 9-3 penalty count.

Childs seemed to almost stubbornly revel in this and continued to penalise Widnes only to continually ignore Saints spoiling tactics. I fear the next few weeks will end up being dominated by this issue as certain teams continue to slow the PTB down claiming that they are using good tackling technique.

Surly Wigan were never guilty of spoiling tactics! :D

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Whoever you strike, punch or smack you should be sent off if you come running in....... It's intentional !. I hope the RFL panel look at this match and make example of any players looking for trouble.

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Whoever you strike, punch or smack you should be sent off if you come running in....... It's intentional !. I hope the RFL panel look at this match and make example of any players looking for trouble.

How many times do we see players running in during a season?

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How many times do we see players running in during a season?

It would have been 5 a side today!

The brawl was quite odd really as it had hardly been an ill-tempered match between the players.

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It would have been 5 a side today!

The brawl was quite odd really as it had hardly been an ill-tempered match between the players.

Did it centre around Gareth Hock per chance?!

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How many times do we see players running in during a season?

Running in yes, striking , punching or smacking someone is different!!

So it's ok to make contact ?? In your opinion ?

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It would have been 5 a side today!

The brawl was quite odd really as it had hardly been an ill-tempered match between the players.

It would have been 5 a side today!

The brawl was quite odd really as it had hardly been an ill-tempered match between the players.

Sometimes you don't know what's been said during play, which can erupt in brawls unexpectedly, leaving fans mystified. Also, unseen niggling incidents can eventually explode.

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Running in yes, striking , punching or smacking someone is different!!

So it's ok to make contact ?? In your opinion ?

Doesn't running in only inflame the situation? Better to keep away to let the situation calm down.

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Hock wasn't even on the field at the time...........

I dint know, it wouldn't have surprised me if it did.

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Doesn't running in only inflame the situation? Better to keep away to let the situation calm down.

Totally agree, so Wilkins needs a bollllocking or a warning

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Totally agree, so Wilkins needs a bollllocking or a warning

Agree, but so do all the rest of the guilty players over a season. No club is immune from players running in. Two players left alone to square up is better than another eight charging in like wild bulls. Also, some forum members on here say they enjoy some biff! :) Which way do we want the game to be played? And I know the odd handbags swipe cannot be compared to sly play.

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Agree, but so do all the rest of the guilty players over a season. No club is immune from players running in. Two players left alone to square up is better than another eight charging in like wild bulls. Also, some forum members on here say they enjoy some biff! :) Which way do we want the game to be played? And I know the odd handbags swipe cannot be compared to sly play.

I'm up for two players squaring up , brought up on Boyd, Tamati and Jackson so it's a pleasure one on one, running in really is annoying.

Please note I'm not having a pop at you or saints, I'm just pee'd off with players running in and thinking their ten men.

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I'm up for two players squaring up , brought up on Boyd, Tamati and Jackson so it's a pleasure one on one, running in really is annoying.

Please note I'm not having a pop at you or saints, I'm just pee'd off with players running in and thinking their ten men.

I totally agree because it's just idiotic players flying in with all guns blazing when they haven't been involved in the original incident.

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I totally agree because it's just idiotic players flying in with all guns blazing when they haven't been involved in the original incident.

Top man, well put.

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all i can say is........james child rides again., god help stains when they play wire and wigan...

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all i can say is........james child rides again., god help stains when they play wire and wigan...

I said something similar when we played c@s in a friendly. I said god help them this season in SL and look what they did today against the rhinos. Never say never

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I tell you what, I'd rather see a bit of biff than 10 second play the balls courtesy of the Nathan Brown school of coaching.

The whole game is made duller by the blatant lying on. It doesn't reward good tackling, it rewards all tackling and means that there is next to no broken play. Almost all Widnes ball today was against a structured and set St Helens line. Fair enough if they had dominated the tackle but this happened whether they had or they hadn't.

From the reaction of the Saints fans and players, I suspect the Cross incident was pretty bad, I was too far away to see it. I'd like to see how he justified sin binning Clarke and nobody else. It was like I said earlier, he seemed to revel in the animosity and what better way to prove that the crowd haven't influenced your decisions by being 'brave' enough to send off 2 players from one side and none from another. The easier, more crowd appeasing decision would have been Cross off and then 1 player from each sin-binned.

As it happened it was crucial for more than one reason. We look much stronger when we have Cross and O'Carroll on and they had literally just been rotated and come back on. So not only were we down to 11 and then 12 men but we didn't get the impact of fresh legs, instead having to bring the tired legs back on.

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I said something similar when we played c@s in a friendly. I said god help them this season in SL and look what they did today against the rhinos. Never say never

It's hard to verbalise how poor Saints were in attack. They had literally set after set on our line and were regularly marched up the field. I think they only got to the kick twice in the first half. Regardless of the improvements we have made in defence, a team like Saints should be able to convert that territory and field position into points against a team that at best will scrape into the playoffs.

As it turned out, they only scored after a third set on our line against 11 players and as you would expect it was caused by sheer weight of numbers. Their one other try against reduced numbers was from a poor offload that went to ground in our own 30 and they capitalised from. The first half try was the result of being marched up the field and having a set on our line after a long period of 'pressure.'

Put it this way, with that amount of territory and possession and then playing against 11/12 I suspect Wigan or Wire would have been in the 30/40 range. That's not being disrespectful to Widnes who defended well either, it's just sheer weight of force.

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"Surly Wigan"? Seems a bit rough getting a slagging off over a game we weren't involved in. I am sure I was not alone in assuming Hock was involved in the mass brawl. Maybe next week when we loan him to Saints' next opponents.

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