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Keith T

Another link up

60 posts in this topic

Half each team wouldn't surprise me with this circus we're seeing !!!

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RFL's response to a fan about goings on at swinton and its clear they are going to stick with this system

Dear Brian

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the Swinton and Warrington partnership however all activity, which has been fully disclosed by the clubs to, is within the current regulations. As with all regulations the RFL will monitor, review and, if necessary, adapt things moving forward. With the RFL concentrating on four strands of the sport i.e. international, full time, semi-professional and community, a constant consideration is how a change to one will affect the other. At all times we wish to find the right balance on these matters and clearly want to have thriving clubs and competitions.

Picking up on your specific point I can confirm six Warrington players have recently transferred to Swinton, all of whom were ineligible to play in this season’s U19s competition due to being in the U21 and U20 age categories. Having taken the view point they were not going to play many, if any, games in the first team in 2013 all six players have agreed to the transfer arrangements and their new employment contract with Swinton Lions RLFC. These players are now not registered or contracted with Warrington Wolves and therefore do not count towards the regulation regarding only allowing 5 loan and/or dual registered players in any matchday 17.

The 6 players in question are:

· J Morrison  

· J Mendeika

· J Burke

· R Shaw

· G Ormsby

· G Riley

I can confirm none of these players had a contract with Warrington until the end of 2015, as annual extension clauses which are in favour of the club do not guarantee the player employment. Using an example, if the contract is for 1 year with annual options in the clubs favour to extend this on an annual basis for a further 2 years; it could be viewed as a 3 year deal when it is actually a 1 year deal with 2 years of options. Many contracts for young players are put in this way and if the player in the example contract was underperforming then it would be likely the club would not take up the option and player would be without a contract after 12 months.

The players permission is essential in all of this and shouldn’t be forgotten. Even if a club wants a player (back or otherwise) it is still the decision of the player to sign the playing contract put forward. With this in mind, even if Warrington wanted to resign one of these players at the end of the Swinton contract, the player is free to refuse this and sign with another club.

11 of the 13 British Super League clubs have a formal partnership with 14 clubs in the Championships in 2013. Having a good majority of clubs involved in such partnership arrangements shows the regulation is meeting a need within the clubs, both Super League and Championships. If there to be any regulation changes in the sport these will be made at the end of 2013.

I hope this response helps in some way and I will ensure my colleague Ralph Rimmer is across this correspondence.

Kind Regards

Chris Thair

Salary Cap and Licencing Manager

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At least they replied I suppose. But it looks like the situation isn't going to improve any time soon with that statement. It will probably get worse another ball dropped from the RFL. The sooner these people are removed the better.

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I received a very similar response from Jon Roberts at the RFL except he wouldn't discuss specific contracts. There was a paragraph in the reply I received that is not in Mr Thair's reply, that reads, :-

"Having a good majority of clubs involved in such partnership arrangements shows the regulation is meeting a need within clubs, both SL and Championship. A number of the partnerships between SL and Championship clubs have resulted in players being transferred as this was an aspect of transition that should not occur next year".

The e-mail response finishes with, "

All aspects will be considered (in the end of year review) as to whether this approach provides a more effective measure to develop professional players and enhance the competition".

Reading those responses it does look as if we are stuck with this system at least until the end of the year.

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All those players are still in Warringtons first team squad, according to their website.

Swinton now have a way of funding the stadium plans - if you believe the RFL (and at this point we probably have to with the above statement) then Swinton can now sell those 6 players.

We are going to be stuck with the system, and the farce that naming Leuluai became. Whats the betting Hunslet under-perform with this weeks 'is he playing isn't he playing?"

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With these six players now registered as swinton players i find the hardest thing to find out who is paying there wages SWINTON or WARRINGTON?????

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Wonder lads if we'll hear from our righteous haven friend after all he's had to say ????

No need for subtle fly fishing there David,,,,,,You Just landed H4E with a dirty great Gaff hook :D

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With these six players now registered as swinton players i find the hardest thing to find out who is paying there wages SWINTON or WARRINGTON?????

With all due respect Swinton haven't got the cash to pay the full-time (or virtually full time) salary contracts 5 of these 6 players were being paid by Warrington.

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Interesting quotes from Tony Smith only a few weeks ago about his young players who have now 'signed' for Swinton from the Boxing Day game vs Widnes (team contained Mendieka and Shaw) :

Entitled "Investment in Youth Paying Dividends"

“We had 17 British players on the field and all but three are home grown, which we are really pleased about and demonstrates how much investment we have put into developing young players and talent coming through.

Just about every player who played a part (against Widnes) will hopefully play a part throughout the year in the first team as they are all potential first-team players.”

Smith is hopeful that a number of home-grown talents will take the next step and make their competitive first-team debuts in either the Challenge Cup or Super League this season.

Little did they know that a few days later after inspection of the RFL's paper-thin regulations they'd be off to Swinton.

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So we were force last week were we???

"We are indebted to Dave Woods and his team for allowing us the opportunity for our first team players to get valuable game time at a high level."

The clue is in"for allowing us". No doubt now haven have used DR players it's not the same as town using them is it .Just the same and still doesn't make the system right.Its wrong who ever uses it

Funny how you have fallen for the spin but what I heard came from a very good source (connections with your BOD) and I am inclined to believe it.

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Load of rubbish,offered 4 players took 2 our choice ,but no suprise town fans trying to spin it ,we were forced and workington are using the system how it should be used.Remember it was Widnes who DR the full squad ,did town have any say in that .A floored system in many ways

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Load of rubbish,offered 4 players took 2 our choice ,but no surprise town fans trying to spin it ,we were forced and workington are using the system how it should be used.Remember it was Widnes who DR the full squad ,did town have any say in that .A flawed system in many ways

So I am making it up? Wrong... Haven were told they must play a DR player this weekend. I'm not trying to stir things up, Happen to work with a couple of very well connected Haven fans and tend to believe what they tell me as it usually turns out to be true.

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Hopefully we haven't been told to play Gore then.

The Widnes supporters are suggesting that a couple of young forwards are now needing game time. Unless Widnes get some injuries this weekend, will we also be told to play these lads thus pushing out someone like Coward or Robinson?

Not supporting H4E, but trying to get the truthful situation out into the public domain, to stop rumour and speculation (which I have already done above).

If Town get told to play Gore or one of the forwards next week, then the cats out of the bag. Or maybe Coward/Robinson will be 'injured' or 'rested'. For me, when that happens that game, however important, becomes devalued.

Its time there was clarity everywhere on this. The RFL have virtually said that we are stuck with the system for the rest of the year, its time we found out what that means, then we can view our support or otherwise.

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All those players are still in Warringtons first team squad, according to their website.

Swinton now have a way of funding the stadium plans - if you believe the RFL (and at this point we probably have to with the above statement) then Swinton can now sell those 6 players.

We are going to be stuck with the system, and the farce that naming Leuluai became. Whats the betting Hunslet under-perform with this weeks 'is he playing isn't he playing?"

Read the RFL response again

Do you not want swinton to get their own ground?

Would you rather we went bust?

And when did a club last sell a player? !

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Whos paying these players wages at swinton, and at the end of contract do they become free agents or go back to warrington. Without full disclosure on these points most will continue to be very suspicious of that link up

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Hopefully we haven't been told to play Gore then.

The Widnes supporters are suggesting that a couple of young forwards are now needing game time. Unless Widnes get some injuries this weekend, will we also be told to play these lads thus pushing out someone like Coward or Robinson?

Not supporting H4E, but trying to get the truthful situation out into the public domain, to stop rumour and speculation (which I have already done above).

If Town get told to play Gore or one of the forwards next week, then the cats out of the bag. Or maybe Coward/Robinson will be 'injured' or 'rested'. For me, when that happens that game, however important, becomes devalued.

In this system we will come unstuck if we persevere with players who are not of Championship calibre and I'm sorry to say it but one of those players just isn't.

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Agree . Loyaltys great but you've also gotta match quality with quality and help yourself

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Whos paying these players wages at swinton, and at the end of contract do they become free agents or go back to warrington. Without full disclosure on these points most will continue to be very suspicious of that link up

I dont know

What I do know is it sounds like you would prefer us to go bust

By the way I'd love to know how much you think these teenagers are or were getting. I do know that and its way off big money.

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Read the RFL response again

Do you not want swinton to get their own ground?

Would you rather we went bust?

And when did a club last sell a player? !

Yes I've read the RFL statement - they are Swinton players. Warrington need to update their website then, unless there is a reason why they haven't - sponsors?

Now then, just tell me how all this stacks up.

Mendieka for example, has gone from a full-time contract with Warrington within the first team squad, to a part-time club who haven't got enough money to sign a large enough squad without relying on 9-10 players from Warrington.

If Swinton are paying full time wages on gates of 600 then most likely they are breaking the salary cap rules.

The RFL are treating supporters with contempt if they think their bland statement with pacify supporters of the game who can see the gaping holes in it.

Of course I'd love Swinton to have their own ground so that they can develop and put down roots etc without being nomads.

Fielding 10 Warrington players won't do that however.

It'll take time to get a ground ready and financed by which time the Championship competition may have been severely compromised and won't exist in its present form. IMO its not too unfeasible for Swinton to be playing out of the Halliwell Jones next season. If the RFL alienate enough supporters, that may have to be the next step for some.

Or is that part of the big plan........register all players with one rugby club then players like Leuluai can play for Hunslet without breaching UKBA rules. The RFL have gone public with trying to help (SL) clubs get round this obstacle so we know a little more where the RFL think the game should be heading.

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So we are still breaking the rules...even though you've just read that we aren't.

Our ground has been in the offing for ages. Who we play and where they come from isn't relevant to that

I'll ask you how do you know how much mendieka is earning?

I know how much one of his peers is on.

Its time to put this behind us and get on with the rugby.

The whining has reached almost scouse like levels!

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So we are still breaking the rules...even though you've just read that we aren't.

Our ground has been in the offing for ages. Who we play and where they come from isn't relevant to that

I'll ask you how do you know how much mendieka is earning?

I know how much one of his peers is on.

Its time to put this behind us and get on with the rugby.

The whining has reached almost scouse like levels!

Using JM as the example, I don't know what he will have been paid by Warrington, but if he was a full-time player for the past 12 months (Quote from Tony Smith) then he needs a reasonable salary in order to live and without falling foul of the min wage reg's.

I'm not picking on Swinton here, I've also posted regarding Hunslet and Leuluai.

I'm also trying to look at the bigger picture for the sport of RL in general, which i think could be harmed by this situation.

I've also said that I'd be against such as Kevin Brown or Gaz Hock playing for 30 mins at Town to get match fitness to help Widnes. It devalues it all IMO.

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So I am making it up? Wrong... Haven were told they must play a DR player this weekend. I'm not trying to stir things up, Happen to work with a couple of very well connected Haven fans and tend to believe what they tell me as it usually turns out to be true.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/haven/ex-gb-star-ade-gardner-has-point-to-prove-at-whitehaven-1.1033943?referrerPath=sport/haven

further proof if needed otto that you are talking rubbish

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