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Red Willow

Salford finally take something from Manchester

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Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Salford part of Manchester? If it were considered separate, then the Sydney Roosters would not be considered part of Sydney by the same logic ( both the same distance from heir respective city centres).

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The City of Salford actually predates the neighbouring city of Manchester.

Not knowing the ins and outs but Manchester is a roman settlement. I presume Salford is anglo Saxon.

But please educate me ( no I'm not being pendantic/ smug)

It's a bit like saying kiwis and Aussies are the same since they both play rugby with more drugs inside them than Lance Armstrongs fridge(alledgedly)

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Goldcoaster, it's quite simple really. Salford City Reds play at the Salford City Stadium which is situated at Barton upon Irwell. Barton upon Irwell was part of the Municipal Borough of Eccles (where the cakes come from) which had nothing to do with Salford until 1974 when the borough was abolished and its area transferred to Greater Manchester to form part of the City of Salford.

Swinton is also in Salford and is the seat of Salford City Council. Swinton RLFC play at Leigh Sports Village which is in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.

1974 is also the reason that both Featherstone and Castleford are in Wakefield. 1974 has a lot to answer for!

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Goldcoaster, it's quite simple really. Salford City Reds play at the Salford City Stadium which is situated at Barton upon Irwell. Barton upon Irwell was part of the Municipal Borough of Eccles (where the cakes come from) which had nothing to do with Salford until 1974 when the borough was abolished and its area transferred to Greater Manchester to form part of the City of Salford.

Swinton is also in Salford and is the seat of Salford City Council. Swinton RLFC play at Leigh Sports Village which is in the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan.

1974 is also the reason that both Featherstone and Castleford are in Wakefield. 1974 has a lot to answer for!

seems straight forward. What's the problem here :)

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Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Salford part of Manchester? If it were considered separate, then the Sydney Roosters would not be considered part of Sydney by the same logic ( both the same distance from heir respective city centres).

I can understand your confusion because, on the face of it, the situation in Australia appears to be the same as over here, but there are subtle differences.

The situation in Australia, as I understand it, is that your city names have two meanings: they describe the wider metropolis, but also the local government area right at the heart of it, ie the central business district plus immediate areas. Thus, Sydney is used to describe the area that 4.6 million people live in, but also the central area - the City of Perth - that has a population of 170,000. Likewise, in the city I'm most familiar with, Perth, the name refers to both the metropolitan area and the smaller City. My brother lives in the city of Joondalup, but he also recognises that he resides in the city internationally recognised as Perth.

I don't know the detailed history of the development of cities in Australia but I would guess that they are similar to what Perth has gone through in recent years - rapid growth outwards from the centre into undeveloped land. I've visited Perth twice, in 2006 and 2012, and the growth in that time has been incredible, particularly northwards. Vast amounts of land have been developed, with new cities being developed, but all of this development has been recognised as 'Perth'.

England and the UK has had a different type of growth in its cities. In the area in which Salford and Manchester are located we had an ancient county called Lancashire. A county was not a metropolitan area nor a state, but a land mass that had its origins in medieval times (I think) and was for the purpose of control and administration by the early kingdom. It contained human settlements, some of which, come the industrial revolution, expanded hugely. In the area of south east Lancashire that contains Manchester and Salford about a dozen or so towns, all with their fiercely held identities, grew substantially with the growth of industry. Manchester was certainly at the centre of these towns, and became the hub of the textile industry in the region, but it didn't give its name to the whole group of towns.

In the second half of the 20th century, however, the previous growth of Britain's urban regions led to public policy makers looking at reforming the system of regional government. Reform in the northern industrial areas was centred around the great conurbations that had developed, eg Merseyside, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and, of course, the region surrounding the City of Manchester (which did not include Salford!). Metropolitan Counties (note: not cities) were created for the purposes of regional administration, and most of them had obvious titles - but not the region centred on Manchester. What could you call the new county? South East Lancashire? No, because a large part of it was in north east Cheshire, so the original title was South East Lancashire, North East Cheshire - very long winded, but SELNEC, the alternative, just sounded weird.

So the title Greater Manchester was agreed on. Tradition, however, got in the way, and the surrounding towns and cities have never really accepted that they are "in Manchester".

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Thus, Sydney is used to describe the area that 4.6 million people live in, but also the central area - the City of Perth - that has a population of 170,000.

That just seems very confusing

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Salford is mentioned in the doomsday book. Manchester is not. As a born and bred Salfordian I am sick to death of people who don't live in the area telling me I am a Mancunian. I went to school before 1974 and was taught to write my address as Salford 5, Lancashire. That will do me nicely. Young people in Salford don't seem to mind being called Mancunians because of the United/City factor and the fact that they went to school since 1974 and were taught "wrongly" that they are Mancunians. The people of Salford are different to Mancunians.

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Salford is mentioned in the doomsday book. Manchester is not. As a born and bred Salfordian I am sick to death of people who don't live in the area telling me I am a Mancunian. I went to school before 1974 and was taught to write my address as Salford 5, Lancashire. That will do me nicely. Young people in Salford don't seem to mind being called Mancunians because of the United/City factor and the fact that they went to school since 1974 and were taught "wrongly" that they are Mancunians. The people of Salford are different to Mancunians.

Thanks for that. This is getting close to the tread on AOB regarding Lancashire

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Salford's in Manchester. Get over it. Like Aston's in Birmingham. Its still ok fr the club to be called Salford. Or Salford as Aussies and Darren Gough call it.

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Salford isn't in Manchester in any measurable way.

Salford Hundreds is the oldest in the area and areas such as Swinton & Eccles were part of this. United don't play in Manchester, Lancashire Cricket ground isn't in Manchester.

Its like saying Coventry is Birmingham.

Typical that a good news story about expanding the RL area gets derailed by geography,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_of_Salford

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Salford isn't in Manchester in any measurable way.

Salford Hundreds is the oldest in the area and areas such as Swinton & Eccles were part of this. United don't play in Manchester, Lancashire Cricket ground isn't in Manchester.

Its like saying Coventry is Birmingham.

Typical that a good news story about expanding the RL area gets derailed by geography,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_of_Salford

Salford is in Greater Manchester, therefore making it a part of Manchester, get over it. If the club has any commercial nous it'll incorporate Manchester into the club name. Nobody cares about Salford and judging by the attendances they get people from Salford dont care about Salford Rugby League team despite these protestations.

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Salford is in Greater Manchester, therefore making it a part of Manchester, get over it. If the club has any commercial nous it'll incorporate Manchester into the club name. Nobody cares about Salford and judging by the attendances they get people from Salford dont care about Salford Rugby League team despite these protestations.

FACT!!!!

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Salford is in Greater Manchester, therefore making it a part of Manchester, get over it. If the club has any commercial nous it'll incorporate Manchester into the club name. Nobody cares about Salford and judging by the attendances they get people from Salford dont care about Salford Rugby League team despite these protestations.

Either you are a troll or very ignorant of history.

Salford (as do many other cities and towns) come under the administrative area of greater Manchester.

By your reckoning Wigan, Bury, Bolton are also in Manchester

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Right on both counts: he's an ignorant troll.

I'm not even sure Greater Manchester even exists as an administrative area these days.

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I think it is fair to say that it is confusing for outsiders. For anyone from the area, it is just a bit complicated. When asked where I come from, I always say that I was born in Salford but brought up in Manchester. I nearly always then have to explain the difference between the two cities. Education! You've got to love it!

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Right on both counts: he's an ignorant troll.

I'm not even sure Greater Manchester even exists as an administrative area these days.

Greater Manchester exists as a sub-regional collective and as a ceremonial county, but has no formal administrative powers noting that it includes Unitary Authorities. Merseyside / Liverpool City Region is much the same. Although the remodelling on 1974 occurred in terms of administration functions with numerous tweaks since, the entire area remains within the historic County Palatine of Lancaster.

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Right on both counts: he's an ignorant troll.

I'm not even sure Greater Manchester even exists as an administrative area these days.

Salford is not in the City of Manchester. Period.

It is in the metropolitan county of Greater Manchester, which causes the confusion. If the whole of the conurbation that is centred on Manchester had been completely in Lancashire then the new county would have been called South Lancashire, along similar lines as West and South Yorkshire. If West Yorkshire had been called Greater Leeds then you would probably now have threads saying that Bradford was in Leeds.

Greater Manchester still exists as a county, and as a basis for administering the police and fire services.

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Is Manchester United in Manchester?

It's within the Greater Manchester Urban Area, but in Trafford Borough rather than the City of Manchester itself.

Salford remains its own city in terms of status irrespective of adjoining the City of Manchester. The Bradford / Leeds comparison is a perfect illustration of the situation. Greater Manchester is a comparable label to West Yorkshire.

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Is Oldham in Manchester? No. Is Swinton? No. But Salford pretty much is.

Is Watford in London? No.

This is a fun game.

Is Gateshead in Newcastle? No. But is Gazza a Geordie? No.

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Its been explained perfectly. There should be no more confusion. Salford is not in Manchester even though some people tried to make it so 39 years ago. I believe Gazza was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne and that makes him a Novocastrian!

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Its been explained perfectly. There should be no more confusion. Salford is not in Manchester even though some people tried to make it so 39 years ago. I believe Gazza was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne and that makes him a Novocastrian!

Novocastrain like Danny buderus and the Johns brothers?

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