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Dual reg/ Twinning

Dual reg/Twinning   131 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is for and who is against?

    • For
      19
    • Against
      112

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106 posts in this topic

Dual reg/Twinning, What ever you want to call it!

who is for?

And who is against?

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am glad you have a poll up on this - it is the most contentious issue in the game after the shoulder charge (which, thank god, we are keeping...)

i am against it for the same reason as everyone else - it makes the already farcical Championship, an even bigger farce, and harms the development of a professional second tier . However, the main problem i have with this whole thing, is the decline of the U20 grade. U20, with 3 over age (and more if mutually agreed between the 2 teams) is doubly beneficial. it provides a genuine (of sorts) reserve grade enabling clubs to build a squad and play fringe players alongside their youngsters. however it also, crucially, provided a developmental pathway for players to make the pro ranks. our game is impoverished, we can't sign players from elsewhere (nrl... union...) so we needed to force (or encourage) clubs to develop their own players. A mandatory U20/reserve grade forced that. now certain clubs... leeds, wigan etc will continue to develop players, while others will just sponge off them, and pick up their cast offs. The situation is IMO an absolute disgrace. when money is scarce as it is in UK RL, development becomes MORE important, not less important. A mandatory U20 grade (plus limited overage) should be re-introduced asap. i see that york, keighley featherstone sheffield etc can manage to run a reserve team, so how the 'ell can cas, wakefield, widnes etc not???? on that note, well done to salford city reds who i see will continue to play their U20 team in the championship reserve comp.

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am glad you have a poll up on this - it is the most contentious issue in the game after the shoulder charge (which, thank god, we are keeping...)

i am against it for the same reason as everyone else - it makes the already farcical Championship, an even bigger farce, and harms the development of a professional second tier . However, the main problem i have with this whole thing, is the decline of the U20 grade. U20, with 3 over age (and more if mutually agreed between the 2 teams) is doubly beneficial. it provides a genuine (of sorts) reserve grade enabling clubs to build a squad and play fringe players alongside their youngsters. however it also, crucially, provided a developmental pathway for players to make the pro ranks. our game is impoverished, we can't sign players from elsewhere (nrl... union...) so we needed to force (or encourage) clubs to develop their own players. A mandatory U20/reserve grade forced that. now certain clubs... leeds, wigan etc will continue to develop players, while others will just sponge off them, and pick up their cast offs. The situation is IMO an absolute disgrace. when money is scarce as it is in UK RL, development becomes MORE important, not less important. A mandatory U20 grade (plus limited overage) should be re-introduced asap. i see that york, keighley featherstone sheffield etc can manage to run a reserve team, so how the 'ell can cas, wakefield, widnes etc not???? on that note, well done to salford city reds who i see will continue to play their U20 team in the championship reserve comp.

TOTALLY AGREE, one absolute farce and a total mockery of the sport. Who will support these championship feeder clubs ? will the SL club pay the wages eventually for their feeer club because the Championship club wont be able to with no supporters. Why would a Swnton, York or Dewsbury fan pay good money to watch a SL second team. At Featherstone we are desperately trying to increase crowds to tick the last box for SL entry, how would we encourage new supporters to come and watch a SL second team, they would laugh in our faces.

There is also the issue of awat support, who will want to travel and waste all their hard earned income to watch a team that is different each week and that dont even care if they win or lose. Fev currently take 800 plus to away games , that would drop to around 100 if we didnt have the pride and passion for OUR players, This has to be sorted before any clubs go under and disappear forever. Drastic words I know but that is my honest opinion and I dont see any good for the Championship in this system.

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I've got no problem with it if its used properly I.E to give young talent a game and improve their game. But first teamers getting match fitness come on now this a joke.

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In principle I was happy with idea of 3/4 SL players being registered with a Kingstone Press Championships club for a fixed but renewable period (a month, three months, a season) with the option to be recalled during that period by the SL club.

The examples we've seen in recent weeks are daft and go well beyond that, and I can understand the anger of Kingstone Press Championships fans or feeling that their clubs are being demeaned.

However, I do feel that there are knowledge, expertise and facilities that SL/Championship clubs can share for mutual benefit. If Warrington can provide know-how on marketing or training to Swinton, that can be a good thing.

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In principle I was happy with idea of 3/4 SL players being registered with a Kingstone Press Championships club for a fixed but renewable period (a month, three months, a season) with the option to be recalled during that period by the SL club.

The examples we've seen in recent weeks are daft and go well beyond that, and I can understand the anger of Kingstone Press Championships fans or feeling that their clubs are being demeaned.

However, I do feel that there are knowledge, expertise and facilities that SL/Championship clubs can share for mutual benefit. If Warrington can provide know-how on marketing or training to Swinton, that can be a good thing.

A bit of marketing resource, some caching sessions and sharing of medical insurance premiums versus the integrity of the competition mmm.........let me think

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A bit of marketing resource, some caching sessions and sharing of medical insurance premiums versus the integrity of the competition mmm.........let me think

I wish you'd had a think before you typed that. I'm not sure how anything I suggested would jeopardise the 'integrity of the competition'.

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Just a thought. I wonder if anyone from the RFL or the RL press ever look at these polls to get some sort of feedback. 38 members of this forum have voted at present with only 3 for the system. Only a small sample I know but surely there is enough indication there already to say this is not good for the game and let's get rid.

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I wish you'd had a think before you typed that. I'm not sure how anything I suggested would jeopardise the 'integrity of the competition'.

I wish you'd had a think before you typed that. I'm not sure how anything I suggested would jeopardise the 'integrity of the competition'.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, my comment wasn't in relation to your post, more a general comment on the magnitude of the benefits compared to the integrity of the game being at risk,

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On Thursday night Featherstone and Keighley played an under 20's game and this afternoon Featherstone and Sheffield played an under 19's game. All without any central funding. But SL clubs can't afford both???? I just don't get it.

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I'm against the twinning/duel reg arrangement on the whole, I can see some benefits for clubs in expansion areas just starting out in the lower reaches of the Championship and getting some decent young players in and access to knowledge/mentoring and commercial support, but nothing like on the scale we're seeing now, almost across the board.

I'd have preferred those Super League clubs not happy with the previous arrangements/expense for there reserve team to have entered there own Championship club. Marketed it as Sunday rugby in there catchment area given the volume of Friday night games we have now.

Whilst the expense would still have been there you'd hope the better standard of opposition would drive bigger crowds and bigger revenues. Clubs like Wigan playing out of Orrell would have been a more than decent Championship venue. I appreciate its an idea being repeated and some fans of Championship clubs also have reservations about this, as previously discussed, but on the plus side we wouldn't have the current DR system, there'd be greater depth to the Championship and Super League kids would be playing to a higher standard.

Plus you could cash in on those families who simply can't make Friday nights, keep them in the fold and hopefully not let them drift away from the game as they get out of "the habit" of attending live games as I'm sure we've all seen amongst our groups of friends and acquaintances.

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A bit of marketing resource, some caching sessions and sharing of medical insurance premiums versus the integrity of the competition mmm.........let me think

They will not have anything to market though. And wire on the whole would be coaching and getting insurance for there own players. And all of these benefits will be of no use if you if fans vote with there feet!

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There are clear benefits for both divisions. Whilst it is positioned by many as a cost-cutting exercise for SL clubs, they ignore the fact that the Championship club will be getting financial benefits by hiring a smaller squad themselves.

We need to be realistic that if the clubs can't afford it, they can't afford it.

This issue looked much worse by the Swinton/Wire link-up - hopefully much of that has been cleared up by the post elsewhere on here, but I doubt it.

I'd rather see a system where say 10 can be registered and a maximum of 5 can be used at one time. I'm not a fan of all of the squad being registered.

I do have an issue with the fact that an injured player cannot regain fitness before being thrown back into SL though - that is something that needs to be looked at if they went with limitations like I suggest.

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There are clear benefits for both divisions. Whilst it is positioned by many as a cost-cutting exercise for SL clubs, they ignore the fact that the Championship club will be getting financial benefits by hiring a smaller squad themselves.

We need to be realistic that if the clubs can't afford it, they can't afford it.

This issue looked much worse by the Swinton/Wire link-up - hopefully much of that has been cleared up by the post elsewhere on here, but I doubt it.

I'd rather see a system where say 10 can be registered and a maximum of 5 can be used at one time. I'm not a fan of all of the squad being registered.

I do have an issue with the fact that an injured player cannot regain fitness before being thrown back into SL though - that is something that needs to be looked at if they went with limitations like I suggest.

Dave, I find it hard to believe that clubs such as Wigan, Wire, Leeds, Saints, Hull, Huddersfield etc cant actually afford to run under 20's sides when Fev, Fax, Keighley etc can. The plan is purely to use famous and once proud Championship clubs as a feeder/reserve league. For once SL and Championship fans seem to be largely as one on this judging by the poll. The trouble is that no one with any influence is listening.

It may sound a bit dramatic but I can honestly say I've never felt so demoralised about the game as I do now. A brilliant competition is being destroyed and may never recover in my opinion. Sickening!

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There are clear benefits for both divisions. Whilst it is positioned by many as a cost-cutting exercise for SL clubs, they ignore the fact that the Championship club will be getting financial benefits by hiring a smaller squad themselves.

Will they ? What happens later in the season when the $uperleague side pick up a few injuries and have no players to DR out ?

Or has no-one thought as far ahead as June ? :dry:

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There are clear benefits for both divisions. Whilst it is positioned by many as a cost-cutting exercise for SL clubs, they ignore the fact that the Championship club will be getting financial benefits by hiring a smaller squad themselves.

We need to be realistic that if the clubs can't afford it, they can't afford it.

This issue looked much worse by the Swinton/Wire link-up - hopefully much of that has been cleared up by the post elsewhere on here, but I doubt it.

I'd rather see a system where say 10 can be registered and a maximum of 5 can be used at one time. I'm not a fan of all of the squad being registered.

I do have an issue with the fact that an injured player cannot regain fitness before being thrown back into SL though - that is something that needs to be looked at if they went with limitations like I suggest.

A smaller base squad boosted by a weekly changing cartel of players from the SL club. Yep that'll boost standards and will clearly demonstrate that the Championship club is a feeder/reserve side getting the crowds flooding in.

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I am in general sick of SL taking no notice what’s going off in Rugby league back garden. Not listing to the fans I can only see another Huddersfield revolt only difference being we can’t use the George hotel gone bust along we super league. I Seen a banner somewhere Fevreverulation when let’s make a championship revolution and say no more nonsense from super league lets stand up and be counted every rugby league fan should do this no matter which club they support we need to save the game now! Before it go’s down the plug hole.

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Its obviously a joke. It ruins the intergrity of the Championship for starters, its not who has the best team anymore its 'who has the best partnership club first teamers who needs fitness.'

Then it creates an obvious disadvantage for independent clubs with this 'value' system. A player on 100k+ is on a 'value' of 1.5k a game under the Championship salary cap. So if a partnership club has a 100k+ SL player every game like an independant club would then this will cost 39k a season. How on earth is that fair? So essentially clubs with a core base of around 1100 like ourselves are unable to compete with a core base of around 350 (if that) as we can't get the likes of Leuleuai, Keinhorst, Moore and Hood under the salary cap. That is just blatantly unfair, there isn't any other way too describe it. The RFL are basically punishing clubs for not accepting defeat to the money grabbers in SL. The reserve teams should have to pay exactly what the player is getting paid to play RL. If a player is on 130k a year then this should have a value of 5k, so its totally legitimate for every club and not create a clear unfair advantage.

Apparantly this move saves each SL club 100k. Which saves SL 1.4m a year, in the RFL eyes it is totally worth it at the expense of the Championship.

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if Fev ever do get in superleague, i hope we don't adopt the myopic view of some superleague supporters on here.

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Its obviously a joke. It ruins the intergrity of the Championship for starters, its not who has the best team anymore its 'who has the best partnership club first teamers who needs fitness.'

Then it creates an obvious disadvantage for independent clubs with this 'value' system. A player on 100k+ is on a 'value' of 1.5k a game under the Championship salary cap. So if a partnership club has a 100k+ SL player every game like an independant club would then this will cost 39k a season. How on earth is that fair? So essentially clubs with a core base of around 1100 like ourselves are unable to compete with a core base of around 350 (if that) as we can't get the likes of Leuleuai, Keinhorst, Moore and Hood under the salary cap. That is just blatantly unfair, there isn't any other way too describe it. The RFL are basically punishing clubs for not accepting defeat to the money grabbers in SL. The reserve teams should have to pay exactly what the player is getting paid to play RL. If a player is on 130k a year then this should have a value of 5k, so its totally legitimate for every club and not create a clear unfair advantage.

Apparantly this move saves each SL club 100k. Which saves SL 1.4m a year, in the RFL eyes it is totally worth it at the expense of the Championship.

good post!

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if Fev ever do get in superleague, i hope we don't adopt the myopic view of some superleague supporters on here.

who are thes superleague supporters you refer to. ive never met one.

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