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Barnie

playing within the 'spirit' of RL

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What about the concept of the spirit of Swinton Lions - what it means to wear the shirt? It should be an important concept for the inspiration of players and supporters.

What makes you believe filling the team with 8 kids from Warrington (Birkett and Hulme should be included along with the 6 signings prior to the Workington match), added to 5 further random Warrington players on dual registration on any given week, is an effective way to "play to win"? It isn't. At best any win is rendered a hollow win. The best way to "play to win" is to put the work in off-the-field to get attendances up, increase income and be able to attract and retain a better quality of player on an ongoing basis.

At last a reply with a bit of sanity attached.

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OK then chaps. Lets say your now in charge and you send all our players back to where they came from. What's your next move?

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OK then chaps. Lets say your now in charge and you send all our players back to where they came from. What's your next move?

Using homegrown players would be a start not just warrington reserves.

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Use homegrown players like Halifax and Fev who are our main critics on here...teams packed with super league cast offs or cherry picked from less financially strong teams like us?

There are no homegrown players because......go on guess...they are all in super league academies already. From a young age. Do you know from where Gene Ormsby hails? Audenshaw. So surely he should have signed for Oldham or us? No hes in Warringtons academy.

So super league cant afford reserve teams yet we can?

Its great having a constant dig at the club for doing this but its a league wide debate.

Simple statements of growing income and raising home grown talent are so easy to make. They are so easy to make they seem to need repeating time and again.

I would love a team of 13 locals . Make it happen I challenge you.

By the way...where do you think John Stopford or Albert Blan came from? It wasnt Swinton. Ken Gowers? Is it beyond comprehension that we have never ever relied on locals? We have always had a smattering. We still have. Retention of players is something that every club struggles with.

Finally,I am not arguing that DR is the answer. I am not saying PhiIl or Julian are wrong. I just dont think the answers are as easy as all the detractors suggest.

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I'm just so angry that decisions made by Super League clubs have affected the credibility of what was a very good competition in 2012.I had been so looking forward to this season for months and now my love for the game and the club has been shattered to such an extent that I no longer have the enthusiasm to attend games.

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I'm just so angry that decisions made by Super League clubs have affected the credibility of what was a very good competition in 2012.I had been so looking forward to this season for months and now my love for the game and the club has been shattered to such an extent that I no longer have the enthusiasm to attend games.

The rfl need to take note of people like yourself duffymoon otherwise the championship will wither away and the supporters along with it.

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The rfl need to take note of people like yourself duffymoon otherwise the championship will wither away and the supporters along with it.

At long last the penny has dropped Julian " The RFL need to take note"...so at last you accept that the problem was of there making and not Swinton's.

Took a while but I am pleased to see you now accept who is to blame and perhaps you will now get off the back of the club.

Mark Richardson's post is exactly correct, if we were to go back to pre dual reg where would we have looked for our players from.?

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Using homegrown players would be a start not just warrington reserves.

Name 3 players who are from Swinton who would be good enough for this level of rugby.

1 - Watson

2 - ?

3 - ?

And how can we have home grown players without having a youth set up which would cost millions.

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Using homegrown players would be a start not just warrington reserves.

So it's ok to use "Warrington" reserves then whilst you are picking the side too?

Tell you what, I'll let you tell me who you would have brought in to bolster our team even before the season started!

Whenever your ready..........

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So it's ok to use "Warrington" reserves then whilst you are picking the side too?

Tell you what, I'll let you tell me who you would have brought in to bolster our team even before the season started!

Whenever your ready..........

No its not ok to use "warrington reserves" i'd use homegrown players, whom maybe or maybe not good enough but at least we would still have our own identity and not just be a feeder club for warrington.

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The rfl need to take note of people like yourself duffymoon otherwise

There's about as much chance of the RFL listening to people like us as there is of someone like Rev Ian Paisley becoming the next pope.

The RFL wear blinkers every day from dawn till dusk don't you know?

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There's about as much chance of the RFL listening to people like us as there is of someone like Rev Ian Paisley becoming the next pope.

The RFL wear blinkers every day from dawn till dusk don't you know?

They can ignore us at their own peril cause unless they change the dr system soon rl as we know it will cease to exist, mind you thats what they probably what they want a superleague and the rest of rl in the lower divisions go hang.

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No its not ok to use "warrington reserves" i'd use homegrown players, whom maybe or maybe not good enough but at least we would still have our own identity and not just be a feeder club for warrington.

So who are they, these "home grown players"? You can't just keep saying the same thing. Please try to be more specific!

Could you please give me an example when we have EVER had a team of "home grown"players or ANY team that has?

Enlighten me and I may be a believer.........

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Whenever have you Caine and YOU Philh been proper Swinton fans, you come on this site pontificating about increasing attendences and yet never go to matches. Lets get down to the nitty gritty shall we.How many times have we produced decent young talent only to see the vultures step in and whisk them away Andy Coley, Martin Gleeson to name a couple. You go on about local talent and also not playing to the rules. Well how about Alex Hirst then. Local lad signs acontract at the start of the season, Has a good game for Scotland, spotted by a super league team.and taken off us without getting a penny for him. How on earth can we hope to build a stable team when super league can take who ever they fancy. There is no local talent in the area. The only team is Folly Lane and any up and coming players are snaffled again by super league mainly Salford but also Wigan [harrison hanson]. We also can't compete with the likes of Fax and Fev etc for the better players and guess why? because our fan base isn't big enough due to armchair fans not going, remind you of anyone? If the truth is known if you took John Kidds support away we would probably be able to pay the ball boy. No its not an ideal situation but it's the only way we have a chance of competing at the cuurent level. And just to let you know the facts about local talent The great Swinton team of the sixties,Champions in 1963 /64 and 1964/65 was made up of 80% Wiganers.

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Whenever have you Caine and YOU Philh been proper Swinton fans, you come on this site pontificating about increasing attendences and yet never go to matches. Lets get down to the nitty gritty shall we.How many times have we produced decent young talent only to see the vultures step in and whisk them away Andy Coley, Martin Gleeson to name a couple. You go on about local talent and also not playing to the rules. Well how about Alex Hirst then. Local lad signs acontract at the start of the season, Has a good game for Scotland, spotted by a super league team.and taken off us without getting a penny for him. How on earth can we hope to build a stable team when super league can take who ever they fancy. There is no local talent in the area. The only team is Folly Lane and any up and coming players are snaffled again by super league mainly Salford but also Wigan [harrison hanson]. We also can't compete with the likes of Fax and Fev etc for the better players and guess why? because our fan base isn't big enough due to armchair fans not going, remind you of anyone? If the truth is known if you took John Kidds support away we would probably be able to pay the ball boy. No its not an ideal situation but it's the only way we have a chance of competing at the cuurent level. And just to let you know the facts about local talent The great Swinton team of the sixties,Champions in 1963 /64 and 1964/65 was made up of 80% Wiganers.

Excellent comments throughout - and to remind the doubters we loved those lads when they pulled on the Swinton shirt and won us trophies

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Don't think the Wiganer percentage was quite as high as 80%, maybe more like 50-60%

Nothing usual about having a few pie eaters wearing the Lions' colours back then. Don't forget Wigan was a far more rugby league driven town back then than perhaps today. Central Park had huge crowds all the time, 15,000 - 20,000?

And being a fairly big town in RL terms meant that any local players couldn't all play for their hometown club, hence the main reason they ventured to other Lancashire clubs close by in smaller towns.

Lions Wiganers from that era who easily spring to mind are Albert Blan, John Speed, Peter Norburn, John Stopford, George Parkinson (?) Ken Gowers was 'Wigan born' but was always considered a Rochdalian as his dad Walter played for Hornets in the '20s. Probably quite a few more - would have to delve through old match programmes etc.

A good idea, ask Steve Wild about that even though it's before his time. He's the 'history man', he'll have the 'knowledge'

Locals who turned out for the Lions back then were Peter Smethurst, Graham Williams, Reg Williams Dave Robinson, Brian Robinson, Terry Cramont, Barry Simpson, Derek Whitehead, Peter Kenny, John Carey, Vic Lawton, Brian Critchley (?), Mal Cummings. Apologies if I've missed out your dad/uncle/brother/cousin or whatever.

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I think you will find Keith, Critchley was a wiganer as was Daz Davis , Ken Halliwell, Harold Bate, Derick Clarke, some of the locals you named were only reserves or came late sixties early seventies.

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I think you will find Keith, Critchley was a wiganer as was Daz Davis , Ken Halliwell, Harold Bate, Derick Clarke, some of the locals you named were only reserves or came late sixties early seventies.

I think Derek Clarke was a Widnesian. Yes I thought Ken Halliwell was a Wiganer too.

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My uncle Derek Whitehead was in Championship winning A team in 62/63 season. Born and bred at 727 Bolton Road Pendlebury.opposite Boardmans newsagents next to Zebra crossing. Played on wing in first team later in 60s before moving to Oldham then on to Wire and GB. Ex Folly of course.

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My uncle Derek Whitehead was in Championship winning A team in 62/63 season. Born and bred at 727 Bolton Road Pendlebury.opposite Boardmans newsagents next to Zebra crossing. Played on wing in first team later in 60s before moving to Oldham then on to Wire and GB. Ex Folly of course.

Your Uncle Derek had easily the best side step I ever saw. He was two years above me at 'Crommy' and was in the same year as Graham Williams.

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