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Haven Horizon

Online Petition

114 posts in this topic

If the sport has any hopes of spreading fan-wise e masse to the new towns, we need automatic promotion to SL preferably with 2 spots per year. Its the only way to see clubs like Hemel or Oxford in SL.

My god some of the biggest names in RL - Halifax, Bradford, Salford, Wakefield etc have collapsed in Superleague and you speak of hemel or Oxford getting in SL.

It's quite mad.

There are RL towns who have been around since the 1870's who can't get a decent crowd or develop a home grown team and you think these can?

So I aren't signing it because I aren't aligning myself with the fantasists.

Nor would I help any hair brained scheme that may Leave Featherstone at risk of missing out after several years of banging on the SL door via the licensing route.

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Probably not but abandoning P&R hasn't stopped it either and it's morally wrong to deny a team and it's followers a chance of playing in the top flight when they've earned the right by winning their Championship.

This is a petition from supporters at Whitehaven.

The story goes that when Whitehaven were matching Castleford in the Championship promotion race a few years ago when it came to the crunch the Whitehaven chairman had no money for new professional players for a Superleague campaign and existing part time players were expected to play Superleague but they had decent jobs they did not want to jeapordise.

The grand final was over very quickly and the pro's of cas duly went up. The Haven chairman didn't get his pay day and the haven players kept their careers.

As it turned out Whitehaven collapsed financially anyway. (n.b. all corrections welcome)

Firstly "followers" don't earn anything. Secondly when part time players win the Championship they don't want to have a ""right"" to play in the top division because they want to keep their jobs, annd in any case the club doesn't wan't them, they want professionals so this moral business is just bunkum.

There is no moral case whatsoever for P & R and no sporting case either, if players get to the top of the game they play then that's it and the two games of part time RL and professional RL are different, and fans should wake up to the realities that many CC club chairmen do not want Superleague. many part time players do not want to be pros.

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I encourage those who support the petition to sign it.

And their mums and dads and the neighbours and the friends at work even though they are Man U fans etc.....

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I agree in principle P&R should be brought back, but there needs to some levelling of the funding from the RFL first. The Championship teams only receive £90k a season from central finding, SL clubs get £1M. The RFL give approx £15M a year out to clubs. IMO funding should be more evenly distributed between the divisions, how about splitting it £700k SL, £300k Ch and £100k in Ch1. in order to help teams in championship to bridge the gulf between them and the SL clubs.

The money that funds this club funding is from the SKY contract. SKY paid £90,000,000 for the RFL to create a single professional Rugby League over 5 years for televising on SKY sports IIRC. SKY don't want championship rugby and therefore you can be 100% certain the SKY money contractually cannot be shared with the Championship.

I think you know that the Superleague has to have the money, other wise you would have suggested ALL clubs in membership of the RFL should get the same. Now that IS "fairness"

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And their mums and dads and the neighbours and the friends at work even though they are Man U fans etc.....

I am merely seeking to avoid been accused of trying to limit discussion and free speech. ( well, text, really) . In my personal opinion the reasoning, if it can be called that, behind the petition is badly flawed. Its what we technically call a crock of ######

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You Super League guys seem to think it's the be all and end all.Remember when Mr Lindsay said before the start of SL in 95 it will make us catch up with the Aussies being full time and it hasn't got us anywhere near.There is now 2 versions of RL in the UK and I for one would rather watch the Championship version(even though theres not much point) than the stale,sterile and no strength in depth game that Super League has become.

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My god some of the biggest names in RL - Halifax, Bradford, Salford, Wakefield etc have collapsed in Superleague and you speak of hemel or Oxford getting in SL.

It's quite mad.

There are RL towns who have been around since the 1870's who can't get a decent crowd or develop a home grown team and you think these can?

So I aren't signing it because I aren't aligning myself with the fantasists.

Nor would I help any hair brained scheme that may Leave Featherstone at risk of missing out after several years of banging on the SL door via the licensing route.

Spot on parky. I've always been a fan of P&R and 3 years ago I would of signed the petition. But I'm not this time around because I believe it would hurt my club beyond belief if P&R came back into our game now. As our club as jumped through flaming hoops to try and get us back in the elite league and if we do get SL all that hard work they have done over the last 3 to 4 years would all hinge on one season. It could be disastrous for my club. It could be all that hard work coming down to one season of twist or fold.

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I'm pretty sure you are right! To get into the Football League a club has to satisfy certain criteria, and I know that a club going into the Championship has to eventually remove terracing, but there are no additional requirements for a club moving from League Two to League One (ie, tier 4 to 3).

Correct.

Pretty much the whole football pyramid is based on criteria for promotion.

Which was tried in RL, and everyone hated it. I mean, really hated it. Trust me on this.

The idea that the only thing stopping Batley or Whitehaven winning the SL is the P&R system is ludicrous. It's the economics of those two clubs that are stopping them. There probably isn't enough people in Whitehaven to support the 50-100 people needed full time to run a good SL club. It's just not that big a town. That's the problem.

Clubs need to achieve what they can achieve. Whitehaven are more likely to survive and thrive in a lower tier by realising that and getting on with it.

As it stands, your petition is like Leyton Orient fans complaining that they don't get to play in the Champions League.

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The other point is that P&R proponents don't seem too keen on P&R at the bottom of the league. Certainly not the "R" bit anyway.

If you want P&R, then fair's fair. Let's have P&R. There'll be a more than a few Championship clubs that would be looking very nervously at the trapdoor they'd just opened and pondering a future playing at Moldgreen or Wigan St Pats.

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What happens so often on this board is that the fans of P&R hold fast in their beliefs and those opposing that view spend their time deriding them and producing hyperbole to say they're wrong, deluded, foolish or dreamers.

It's a petition. If you don't like it don't sign it.

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one division and a top 4 play off, thats the way forward

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1.What happens so often on this board is that the fans of P&R hold fast in their beliefs and those opposing that view spend their time deriding them and producing hyperbole to say they're wrong, deluded, foolish or dreamers.

2. It's a petition. If you don't like it don't sign it.

2. It's a proposal for us lot to sign a petition put to us on an RL debate site.

It's been dabated, if you don't like what people say about a proposal then engage in the debate.

1. What often happens so often on this board is that proposals that are shot down on the basis of sound logic and reasoning lead to those who don't like the answers, and have no counter answer to declare "he has a right to hold that belief".

If anyone wants to hold a belief then don't come on a debate site and shove it at people who are up for a debate.

Look at the OP it doesn't just ask us to sign if we want P & R it makes a case for P & R many disagree with.

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You Super League guys seem to think it's the be all and end all.Remember when Mr Lindsay said before the start of SL in 95 it will make us catch up with the Aussies being full time and it hasn't got us anywhere near.There is now 2 versions of RL in the UK and I for one would rather watch the Championship version(even though theres not much point) than the stale,sterile and no strength in depth game that Super League has become.

What's a SuperLeague guy? What are these two versions of RL of which you speak? Are there two governing bodies, are there two sets of rules?

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2. It's a proposal for us lot to sign a petition put to us on an RL debate site.

It's been dabated, if you don't like what people say about a proposal then engage in the debate.

1. What often happens so often on this board is that proposals that are shot down on the basis of sound logic and reasoning lead to those who don't like the answers, and have no counter answer to declare "he has a right to hold that belief".

If anyone wants to hold a belief then don't come on a debate site and shove it at people who are up for a debate.

Look at the OP it doesn't just ask us to sign if we want P & R it makes a case for P & R many disagree with.

I don't engage with those who spit food at you while their eating.

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Correct.

Pretty much the whole football pyramid is based on criteria for promotion.

Which was tried in RL, and everyone hated it. I mean, really hated it. Trust me on this.

The idea that the only thing stopping Batley or Whitehaven winning the SL is the P&R system is ludicrous. It's the economics of those two clubs that are stopping them. There probably isn't enough people in Whitehaven to support the 50-100 people needed full time to run a good SL club. It's just not that big a town. That's the problem.

Clubs need to achieve what they can achieve. Whitehaven are more likely to survive and thrive in a lower tier by realising that and getting on with it.

As it stands, your petition is like Leyton Orient fans complaining that they don't get to play in the Champions League.

Not much difference in town size between Cas and Whitehaven, so your argument is flawed. No-one will thrive in a league with no promotion -they will just wither and die

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Like Fev? like Leigh?

Oh, hang on a min. I see what you mean. Promotion certainly motivated Widnes and the chance of A SL licence is motivating Fax and Fev.

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one division and a top 4 play off, thats the way forward

Edited for veracity. "one division and a top 4 play off, thats the way forward backwards and downwards"

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Edited for veracity. "one division and a top 4 play off, thats the way forward backwards and downwards"

"plop". btw we have been asked by the mod not to edit other peoples posts..

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Not much difference in town size between Cas and Whitehaven, so your argument is flawed. No-one will thrive in a league with no promotion -they will just wither and die

Cas itself is 50% bigger than Whitehaven (25,000 in 'Haven vs 37,000 in Cas')

Also, Cas is surrounded by other towns, like Pontefract which is almost as big again. Whitehaven has Workington to the North and a lot of mountains.

I doubt that a viable SL club can be formed in Whitehaven alone. Perhaps, and the barriers to this are huge and don't need repeating here, there is the economy across both Whitehaven and Workington to support a medium sized SL club.

The target catchment area for Cas is probably 3 to 4 times bigger that of Whitehaven.

Castleford themselves are on the fringes of viability for SL in my opinion. This is not a value judgement, before anyone jumps in, it's just the facts of small town teams in a fully professional sport.

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"plop". btw we have been asked by the mod facist regime not to edit other peoples posts..

Just sayin'

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"plop". btw we have been asked by the mod not to edit other peoples posts..

That is exactly why I didn't edit it. Your pure and unexpurgated post was quoted for all to read.

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You Super League guys seem to think it's the be all and end all.Remember when Mr Lindsay said before the start of SL in 95 it will make us catch up with the Aussies being full time and it hasn't got us anywhere near.

It is the be all and end all. Reject SKY and return to semi pro and we won't ever get near the Aussies again and the game will disintegrate.

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It is the be all and end all. Reject SKY and return to semi pro and we won't ever get near the Aussies again and the game will disintegrate.

We will never beat the Aussies in a game that matters anyway.

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Not much difference in town size between Cas and Whitehaven, so your argument is flawed.

It's not flawed at all cas draw thousands of fans from outside Cas like Pontefract, and they are hardly thriving in SL.

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We will never beat the Aussies in a game that matters anyway.

We probably won't Gaz as we are seeing how small our game is and how few top professionals it develops, it's dwarfed by Aussie RL.

But it's not the point. It's a red herring. Our ticket to survival as a game is a strong Superleague.

Championship clubs feel their ticket to survival is feeding off Superleague.

P & R is a side show to that, it doesn't matter to the health of the game.

And the game should not pander to the wishes of small groups of self interested fans.

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