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Barrow Raiders and Darren Holt stand firm on DR

Will this cost barrow a place in the championship?   31 members have voted

  1. 1. will barrow get relegated?

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      10
    • To early in the season to tell
      15

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56 posts in this topic

Great to hear an important figure speaking sense on this crazy issue

Barrow will finish mid table on their own, they are a big club

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Darren was a fantastic Carlisle player many years ago and is taking that same strength of character in his coaching job. Best of luck to him, if barrow have a settled side and others have constant disruption I think they will benefit eventually.

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Hope Barrow do well, and Holty is a general all-round good bloke, but they've not made the best of starts, and the first home game crowd was worrying.

Speaks a lot of sense in that article and is being realistic. He knows whats around the corner when injuries and/or suspensions kick-in at both the SL and CC club.

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I admire Darren Holt for having the cohones to stick to his firm beliefs, and I happen to believe he is right on this issue!

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Hope Barrow do well, and Holty is a general all-round good bloke, but they've not made the best of starts, and the first home game crowd was worrying.

Speaks a lot of sense in that article and is being realistic. He knows whats around the corner when injuries and/or suspensions kick-in at both the SL and CC club.

Great post recognising where Holts club are likely to be come sunday night, but yes over the season will a settled Barrow claw back the situation and end up joining the independants at the other end of the table.

Barrow as a club and a place has a good amateur set up a sizeable population for fans and a geographical remoteness to prevent fans from being attracted to SL clubs - but again as you astutely put it the crowd was very worrying?

But as with the results too early yet to know what will happen in the end.

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Barrow football is also finding it difficult to attract fans, the area isn't doing hugely well economically, so maybe this is being reflected in attendances. They do have a good lottery scheme though.

Barrow haven't invested fully in a big squad this season as they have to also fund the replacement of the floodlights.

I fully expect Barrow to go into the loan market at some point later in the season. They are also missing 2 props (McGoff and ??) for their first 2 games and then also Haggerty last week thru' suspension, so have some firepower to return.

However, they won't get anything out of Featherstone this week.

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Barrow football is also finding it difficult to attract fans, the area isn't doing hugely well economically, so maybe this is being reflected in attendances. They do have a good lottery scheme though.

Barrow haven't invested fully in a big squad this season as they have to also fund the replacement of the floodlights.

I fully expect Barrow to go into the loan market at some point later in the season. They are also missing 2 props (McGoff and ??) for their first 2 games and then also Haggerty last week thru' suspension, so have some firepower to return.

However, they won't get anything out of Featherstone this week.

In 2009 in the championship they topped 3,000 for a Widnes game, when the club hit the heights after several years of growth from a 2003 CC1 low of 800 average crowds. Given Barrrow's winning return to the Championship was on an average gate of 1300 gained in the same economic climate we have now, they must have thought they could have at least held that.

Cold weather? Defeat to one of last years lowest CC clubs as a marker of the seasons prospects?

Long way to go yet but last week Dewsbury were 300 down on their same fixture last year, Leigh 300 down, Sheffield 100 down, York 100 down. Let's hope it was the weather..........

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In 2009 in the championship they topped 3,000 for a Widnes game, when the club hit the heights after several years of growth from a 2003 CC1 low of 800 average crowds. Given Barrrow's winning return to the Championship was on an average gate of 1300 gained in the same economic climate we have now, they must have thought they could have at least held that.

Cold weather? Defeat to one of last years lowest CC clubs as a marker of the seasons prospects?

Long way to go yet but last week Dewsbury were 300 down on their same fixture last year, Leigh 300 down, Sheffield 100 down, York 100 down. Let's hope it was the weather..........

The weather certainly couldn't have been much worse, that's for sure. Good luck to Barrow and much admiration to them for retaining their identity and credibility as a stand alone club when it could have been so tempting to take the easy way out like several others have done. I hope they make a real success of their return to the Championship.

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Both the football and the rugby have seen a dip in attendances this season, though to be fair, 1 game is too soon to call it. The attendance vs Keighley as a pre-season friendly was about the same as last week so hope its a blip.

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If Holty goes out and loans 4 players from SL, which I believe he will do at some point, will they still be a stand alone club?

Don't get me wrong, I want our neighbours to do well and stay out of the relegation places as it is good for Cumbria that all 3 of our clubs are in the Championship but it just seems that if a linked club uses say 4 young 20 year olds under dual registration as opposed to a non-linked club loaning 4 experienced SL players then that is regarded as somehow worse!!!!

Am I missing something or is it just what people perceive is happening at these linked partnerships?

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barrow are still suffering from the fallout of the dessie period..............

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Just another aside on Thursday evening Whitehaven a club linked with St Helens didn't have any DR or loan players and Leigh a non-linked club had one loaned player from Wigan (Spencer). Which was the stand alone club?

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If Holty goes out and loans 4 players from SL, which I believe he will do at some point, will they still be a stand alone club?

Don't get me wrong, I want our neighbours to do well and stay out of the relegation places as it is good for Cumbria that all 3 of our clubs are in the Championship but it just seems that if a linked club uses say 4 young 20 year olds under dual registration as opposed to a non-linked club loaning 4 experienced SL players then that is regarded as somehow worse!!!!

Am I missing something or is it just what people perceive is happening at these linked partnerships?

Brilliant post. Moore and Kleinhorst were playing for Leeds again last night so what IS this all about.

The difference may be in season long loans the CC club takes advantage of the SL club. in being allowed/not being allowed/expected to field players at the SL clubs whim, the SL club takes advantage of the CC club.

If anyone wants to get smart about "Independence" and take the moral high ground then I suggest they should dump DR altogether (unless they still need to win something to qualify for SL 2015? Do Fax, Leigh, Fev or Sheff need to do this?)

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Brilliant post. Moore and Kleinhorst were playing for Leeds again last night so what IS this all about.

The difference may be in season long loans the CC club takes advantage of the SL club. in being allowed/not being allowed/expected to field players at the SL clubs whim, the SL club takes advantage of the CC club.

If anyone wants to get smart about "Independence" and take the moral high ground then I suggest they should dump DR altogether (unless they still need to win something to qualify for SL 2015? Do Fax, Leigh, Fev or Sheff need to do this?)

I completely agree with you with regards to the DRs.I would also take it a step further and i would stop loans unless you can prove you have an injury crisis in the position you want cover for.

I would also reduce the league back down to 10 clubs with every club proving it can run with a 25 man contracted squad.

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I completely agree with you with regards to the DRs.I would also take it a step further and i would stop loans unless you can prove you have an injury crisis in the position you want cover for.

I would also reduce the league back down to 10 clubs with every club proving it can run with a 25 man contracted squad.

:O Back to 10?

I can see where you are coming from. If twinning and DR eventually ruins the championship where will the pressure come from on the chosen 14 to perform?

But we have a core of only five independent clubs left, and I can't see that RFL/SLE have engineered this situation just to do a great big about face.

Let's see if any of the five have the guts to truly be independent. Even so called Super clubs have loaned players.

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:O Back to 10?

I can see where you are coming from. If twinning and DR eventually ruins the championship where will the pressure come from on the chosen 14 to perform?

But we have a core of only five independent clubs left, and I can't see that RFL/SLE have engineered this situation just to do a great big about face.

Let's see if any of the five have the guts to truly be independent. Even so called Super clubs have loaned players.

Im not completely against the DR system, i just believe it should be limited to 4, there needs to be an age limit on it, and you should be allowed to use players from different clubs.

Initially i was for a 14 team league but having seen were its led to i'm now massively against it.I know we need more games but the league for me, has now been ruined.

i know its not ideal but i would 'now' sooner play the usual fixtures in a 10 team league, and then play 5 home games and 4 away games against the same clubs to increase revenue,the season after it would be 4 home and 5 away.

Dropping 4 clubs would strengthen champ 1 as well.

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Just another aside on Thursday evening Whitehaven a club linked with St Helens didn't have any DR or loan players and Leigh a non-linked club had one loaned player from Wigan (Spencer). Which was the stand alone club?

I can clearly see benefits in a Spencer, or previously Emmitt or Laithwaite or Mitchell or McCarthy or Blythe or Evans or Armstrong type young fringe player on a SL contract using the championship to win a further SL contract by playing at a higher level for a full season whilst still training at the SL club - surely this with a limited number is what the system should be all about. I would like to see a max of 2 per club with 4 weeks notice of a return.

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There is a massive difference if Barrow loan players to the clubs that are on DR

If a Barrow gets injuries and need to bolster there squad for a month or longer they will Loan a player in from any club and he will be with them for a period of time

If they were on DR they would only come in when the SL club didn't pick them and then if they wanted them back the week after they would be taken back by the SL club that wouldn't help them at all to me that is a big difference

We have already seen experienced SL players play for the championship clubs do you think those players would of been allowed out on loan for a length of time I would think not

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I agree with Keith T, but what worries me are the teams that do both, loan players plus DR, this not only shuts the door to a lot of good lads, but will eventually kill the game.

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barrow are still suffering from the fallout of the dessie period..............

^^^This^^^ Plus add in that we are trying to raise 100 grand for replacement floodlights mean were strapped for cash, Barrow will be bottom of the league for a while as they adjust to the higher division but I think they will come good and avoid the drop and be far stronger for it next season.

The Donny game could have been won but the luck and rub of the green were against us on the day, Our home form will save us.

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SL clubs are unashamedly using the Championship as a convenient vehicle for rehabilitating their first choice players when the whole purpose of this system was muted as being for the benefit of fringe first team players gaining experience at a higher level. They've abandoned their own reserve sides because of financial self interest and now have no qualms whatsoever about using the Championship and potentially destroying its credibility in the process so that they can save a few quid.

Annoyingly the RFL, the Championship clubs and SL clubs appear to be oblivious to the long term damage that this system will have on the professional game. What about the up and coming players at Championship level who have trained all week but don't know whether they're playing or not until a couple of days before a game because Brian Mac or Tony Smith haven't decided who to make available? I suppose the short term view of the club would be that they don't have to pay their wages if SL players replace them. A short term cost cutting triumph but at what cost, long term? Why would future young kids aspire to play Championship rugby under these conditions? They might as well stay where they are at amateur level or more worryingly decide to do something else instead.

Unless the ruling body of our game, if thats what they are, sort this mess out sooner rather than later, there will be long term disastrous and irretrievable consequences.

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SL clubs are unashamedly using the Championship as a convenient vehicle for rehabilitating their first choice players when the whole purpose of this system was muted as being for the benefit of fringe first team players gaining experience at a higher level. They've abandoned their own reserve sides because of financial self interest and now have no qualms whatsoever about using the Championship and potentially destroying its credibility in the process so that they can save a few quid.

Unless the ruling body of our game, if thats what they are, sort this mess out sooner rather than later, there will be long term disastrous and irretrievable consequences.

"Self interest"?? "saving a few quid"??.

Come on Terry get real here. The fact is Superleague underpins the whole game now so it is the interests of the game that Superleague is financially sound and it is not. This is why SL clubs are going bust and lending. This is where £68M in debts was quoted from.

The SKY contract does not fully fund a professional game which is what we have to deliver and so the Superleague clubs HAVE to take Zac Hardaker off you, Bulls HAVE to try to sell season tickets in Batley and Dewsbury, and Leeds HAVE to use Hunslet as an "A" team.

Lyndsay said merge as all the resources had to be channeled to Superleague but the clubs with fan pressure said no and so Superleague will take what it can from it's neighbours to stay alive and in turn keep the game alive.

The alternative is to ring fence the Championship, with SL clubs embargoing signing the CC clubs best kids, and not sending their season ticket buses into CC clubs "areas" so it's all very fair and proper and all the clubs can continue to compete evenly and "fairly" etc etc.

What's happening is not "unfair" it's not "to save a few quid" it's not "greed and self interest". That may suit the vocabulary of fans whose clubs are not in Superleague but it just isn't the case. It's pure economic neccessity for a game that is frankly starting to look a bit shakey again.

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