Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

shun

Barrow Raiders and Darren Holt stand firm on DR

Will this cost barrow a place in the championship?   31 members have voted

  1. 1. will barrow get relegated?

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      10
    • To early in the season to tell
      15

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

56 posts in this topic

"Self interest"?? "saving a few quid"??.

Come on Terry get real here. The fact is Superleague underpins the whole game now so it is the interests of the game that Superleague is financially sound and it is not. This is why SL clubs are going bust and lending. This is where £68M in debts was quoted from.

The SKY contract does not fully fund a professional game which is what we have to deliver and so the Superleague clubs HAVE to take Zac Hardaker off you, Bulls HAVE to try to sell season tickets in Batley and Dewsbury, and Leeds HAVE to use Hunslet as an "A" team.

Lyndsay said merge as all the resources had to be channeled to Superleague but the clubs with fan pressure said no and so Superleague will take what it can from it's neighbours to stay alive and in turn keep the game alive.

The alternative is to ring fence the Championship, with SL clubs embargoing signing the CC clubs best kids, and not sending their season ticket buses into CC clubs "areas" so it's all very fair and proper and all the clubs can continue to compete evenly and "fairly" etc etc.

What's happening is not "unfair" it's not "to save a few quid" it's not "greed and self interest". That may suit the vocabulary of fans whose clubs are not in Superleague but it just isn't the case. It's pure economic neccessity for a game that is frankly starting to look a bit shakey again.

Economic necessity for clubs of the calibre of Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Saints, Hull? But yet Fev, Sheffield and other Championship clubs do manage to fund full development pathways on vastly smaller income streams. It's not a necessity, its a cynical abuse of the Championship by SL clubs who are farming their players to a higher grade of football on the cheap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a necessity, Parky.

What should happen is that the clubs should pay for the things that the game needs then see how much they have left for what the game wants.

Which is not what's happening at the moment. Who bangs on about player production more than you ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cannibalism is an economic necessity?

Leeds have eaten Bramley and Hunslet and grown very well on it.

I suspect other SL clubs fancy a taste of their own Rugby League flesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leeds have eaten Bramley and Hunslet and grown very well on it.

I suspect other SL clubs fancy a taste of their own Rugby League flesh.

Sooner or later there's no-one left to eat except yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooner or later there's no-one left to eat except yourself.

Well we'll have to see, but Superleague will devour anything outside superleague that will make it that bit more Super.

If we end up with only 14 clubs and then the economics dictate that has to go to 12 then 10 that will be a manifestation of the fact that less and less people don't want to watch, play or fund RL anymore.

I'm fine with that. If this country doesn't want Rugby League then fine. But as long as it does we need a Superleague as strong as possible to promote the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we'll have to see, but Superleague will devour anything outside superleague that will make it that bit more Super.

If we end up with only 14 clubs and then the economics dictate that has to go to 12 then 10 that will be a manifestation of the fact that less and less people don't want to watch, play or fund RL anymore.

Maybe people won't have the choice if the game's taken away from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe people won't have the choice if the game's taken away from them.

How would the game be taken away?

The point must be what's better for the game - all the resources into a televised professional league or a return to 30 odd clubs sharing everything?

IMHO those who run the game feel the former is the vehicle for growth.

I don't see the "Thin end of the wedge argument" where people say if one club goes then another and then another where does it stop? All businesses cull uneconomical parts of their whole and stop when the business achieves it's ultimate efficient form.

Seems obvious to me RFL/SL want 14 SL clubs and 24+ feeder small semi pro clubs all around the country.

This is why calls for the RFL to sort this DR thing out for the sake of the Championship's integrity may well fall on deaf ears.

This is an observation, not a personal desire to all those who want to have a go (not meaning you)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if your club becomes as good as a feeder team to a SL team then IMO the game's (or at least your club has) been taken away from you. You seem convinced that it has to be SL or a 30 team league like it used to be. As I said once all the minnows (for want of a better expression) have been devoured then where next? The obvious answer is the weaker links in the remaining SL. So then once the SL becomes a small entity the next place to cast an envious gaze is over to RU. This is just my take on things, it might never get that far but it looks like the journey has already begun. One good way to save the game some money and to increase competiveness in the SL might be to reduce the SC as it's obvious not enough clubs can afford to pay full SC and run a sound business. We might lose some players to other leagues or codes but what's better? Lose a club or lose a player?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not a necessity, Parky.

What should happen is that the clubs should pay for the things that the game needs then see how much they have left for what the game wants.

Which is not what's happening at the moment. Who bangs on about player production more than you ?

It's not MY neccessity, but it appears to be SL's.

What SL/RFL also appears to need is to stop making losses in the SL flagship.

As for player production I do not understand your point?

My opinion on this is it isn't the system kids go through that matters anywhere near as much as the number of kids playing

the game in the first place. This is why I think they have set up all these new clubs not to rise to become Supeleague clubs which is just dreaming, but to promote the game being played by the local kids.

All the new clubs are linked straight to SL clubs. Most of the northern CC clubs are linking up as "A" teams

So to me its glaringly obvious what the RFL/SLE are trying to achieve, and only 5 independant CC clubs stand in the way of them achieving it.

Talking about "what the RFL should do" in terms of toning down DR seems to fly in the face of what the policy actually is which is to set up a massive country wide feeder system.

If you aren't in SL or part of that system your in limbo and this is the reality IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if your club becomes as good as a feeder team to a SL team then IMO the game's (or at least your club has) been taken away from you. You seem convinced that it has to be SL or a 30 team league like it used to be.

NO NO NO please don't make this about me, once again all I observe is the RFL/SLE setting up a feeder/"A" team system below Superleague.

I understand why they are doing it and I suggest why they are doing it.

But I'm not championing this, I'm just putting it up for debate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One good way to save the game some money and to increase competiveness in the SL might be to reduce the SC as it's obvious not enough clubs can afford to pay full SC and run a sound business. We might lose some players to other leagues or codes but what's better? Lose a club or lose a player?

That is something I'd personally be behind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if your club becomes as good as a feeder team to a SL team then IMO the game's (or at least your club has) been taken away from you. You seem convinced that it has to be SL or a 30 team league like it used to be. As I said once all the minnows (for want of a better expression) have been devoured then where next? The obvious answer is the weaker links in the remaining SL. So then once the SL becomes a small entity the next place to cast an envious gaze is over to RU. This is just my take on things, it might never get that far but it looks like the journey has already begun. One good way to save the game some money and to increase competiveness in the SL might be to reduce the SC as it's obvious not enough clubs can afford to pay full SC and run a sound business. We might lose some players to other leagues or codes but what's better? Lose a club or lose a player?

I agree, this scenario if allowed to carry on can only mean that the big cats keep devouring until they are 4 really big cats left and 2 strategic ones.

Wigan, Warrington, Leeds, Hull, London & France.

I also agree with what a poster above said about spending their money on what is important and then see what is left. Its obvious players pathways are being compromised at the expense of Aussie pension pots.

How the SL clubs can't afford £1.4m between them I don't know. Also, according to LE the remaining SL clubs have divided Bradfords half of their Sky money between them. That means its only about £0.8m they are short between them - about £57k each!!!

Next year they've all signed up to put the proper structures in, so they will have to fund them.

Terry M - great point about Sheff and Fev providing these structures with no Sky monies, when the SL clubs can't or perhaps won't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NO NO NO please don't make this about me, once again all I observe is the RFL/SLE setting up a feeder/"A" team system below Superleague.

I understand why they are doing it and I suggest why they are doing it.

But I'm not championing this, I'm just putting it up for debate.

It was a general 'you' not a specific 'you'. I understand why they are doing it too. To save money. Nothing more nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 5 championship clubs that want to remain independent should be looking to get another 5 clubs to sign up 'NOW'to a ten club league, so that it can be implemented at the end of this season for 2014.And, although it goes against everything i believe in,maybe a licencing system between the two leagues should then introduced along the lines of sl to protect the championship clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Barrow fans are clutching at straws and looking to use the DR issue to deflect from their own very poor recruitment. Their squad is pretty weak IMHO and they have signed some players who were very average in the league below and simply not up to playing at this higher level. That has nothing to do with DR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Possibly right Derwent but all the clubs should be running with the squads they've assembled in the off season with a couple of DRs or loans if needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we'll have to see, but Superleague will devour anything outside superleague that will make it that bit more Super.

If we end up with only 14 clubs and then the economics dictate that has to go to 12 then 10 that will be a manifestation of the fact that less and less people don't want to watch, play or fund RL anymore.

I'm fine with that. If this country doesn't want Rugby League then fine. But as long as it does we need a Superleague as strong as possible to promote the game.

Sheeple don't know what they want (anymore) until the Television tells them what they want & Where to spend their money.

Sky TV's rating for SL are impressive compared to other more high profile sports who get a bigger financial slice of Sky's funding Pie meaning Sky are getting the better of the deal with RL, Could a very simple long term plan work for both SKY TV & RL ?

This may be a too simplistic idea here but here goes anyway, As Murdoc dominates the media on many levels why don't they "under instruction" simply "Big up League" through their mediums across the board ? Increase coverage by a set amount each year until it receives the same amount of exposure as Union & Cricket ? why not ?

As the games expands to Gloucester, Oxford, Wales, London & the Midlands etc expand the exposure right across the country thus bringing the games into peoples conscience, the more folk read, see (on TV) hear & begin to talk about the sport the more of them will fancy seeing the game in the flesh, the more they see the game in the flesh the more they will want.....................As we already know its a fast dynamite gripping manly sport who the others are not aware of yet !!

It would be cost effective for Sky and they then could raise the coffers of all clubs not just SL, As grass roots & semi-pro are the seedlings that produce the fruit that are SL players.

Win/Win scenario to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Barrow fans are clutching at straws and looking to use the DR issue to deflect from their own very poor recruitment. Their squad is pretty weak IMHO and they have signed some players who were very average in the league below and simply not up to playing at this higher level. That has nothing to do with DR.

Despicable Des left Barrow shafted on many levels, so we had to cut our cloth accordingly, Our problem is compounded by the double whammy of having to upgrade the Floodlights or face another demotion in the same season its open house to flood your team with SL Players on the SL clubs whim, Now were faced with the problem of sticking to our values or selling out (so to speak, not having a pop at anyone or any club here jusy my opinion)

Getting destroyed at Fev today may make that decision for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sheeple don't know what they want (anymore) until the Television tells them what they want & Where to spend their money.

Sky TV's rating for SL are impressive compared to other more high profile sports who get a bigger financial slice of Sky's funding Pie meaning Sky are getting the better of the deal with RL, Could a very simple long term plan work for both SKY TV & RL ?

This may be a too simplistic idea here but here goes anyway, As Murdoc dominates the media on many levels why don't they "under instruction" simply "Big up League" through their mediums across the board ? Increase coverage by a set amount each year until it receives the same amount of exposure as Union & Cricket ? why not ?

Why not, it worked for football when the PL was created.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sheeple don't know what they want (anymore) until the Television tells them what they want & Where to spend their money.

Sky TV's rating for SL are impressive compared to other more high profile sports who get a bigger financial slice of Sky's funding Pie meaning Sky are getting the better of the deal with RL, Could a very simple long term plan work for both SKY TV & RL ?

This may be a too simplistic idea here but here goes anyway, As Murdoc dominates the media on many levels why don't they "under instruction" simply "Big up League" through their mediums across the board ? Increase coverage by a set amount each year until it receives the same amount of exposure as Union & Cricket ? why not ?

As the games expands to Gloucester, Oxford, Wales, London & the Midlands etc expand the exposure right across the country thus bringing the games into peoples conscience, the more folk read, see (on TV) hear & begin to talk about the sport the more of them will fancy seeing the game in the flesh, the more they see the game in the flesh the more they will want.....................As we already know its a fast dynamite gripping manly sport who the others are not aware of yet !!

It would be cost effective for Sky and they then could raise the coffers of all clubs not just SL, As grass roots & semi-pro are the seedlings that produce the fruit that are SL players.

Win/Win scenario to me.

I certainly do agree wholeheartedly that SKY are operating a false economy by not funding Superleague properly.

The product suffers.

Wether "semi-pro are the seedlings that produce the fruit that are SL players" we probably disagree on. Semi pro feed off Superleague and I don't see them producing hardly any SL players at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Despicable Des left Barrow shafted on many levels, so we had to cut our cloth accordingly, Our problem is compounded by the double whammy of having to upgrade the Floodlights or face another demotion in the same season its open house to flood your team with SL Players on the SL clubs whim, Now were faced with the problem of sticking to our values or selling out (so to speak, not having a pop at anyone or any club here jusy my opinion)

Getting destroyed at Fev today may make that decision for them.

I know all that mate and I'm not really knocking Barrow but the DR thing is a bit of a red herring. If you're honest the Barrow squad would struggle a bit even if DR didn't exist. Lads like Whitehead, Wiper, Kaighan etc were ok at CC1 level but not really good enough to play at this level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know all that mate and I'm not really knocking Barrow but the DR thing is a bit of a red herring. If you're honest the Barrow squad would struggle a bit even if DR didn't exist. Lads like Whitehead, Wiper, Kaighan etc were ok at CC1 level but not really good enough to play at this level.

To be fair in all the games we have played (bar the featherstone one) an SL player has been the best player on the pitch and scored the decisive try in the game. Our squad isn't going to be challenging for honours people have accepted that, but when you've got SL players you don't have access to it really doesn't help you. I do agree some of the players though we have signed arnt good enough for this level though, I doubt we are spending near the cap and have gone for younger lads and local players to cut down on travelliing costs and paying excessive wages as we are still recovering from Dessies era plus are trying to make stadium improvements also.

We'll just have to see how the season pans out I guess, we're only 3 games in and with 23 games to go and still a lot of rugby to be played.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know all that mate and I'm not really knocking Barrow but the DR thing is a bit of a red herring. If you're honest the Barrow squad would struggle a bit even if DR didn't exist. Lads like Whitehead, Wiper, Kaighan etc were ok at CC1 level but not really good enough to play at this level.

I hear you Derwent, were just hopeful local pride and enough home wins will see us safe then try to rebuild slowly once we have some spare cash, PS You sound a decent fella want to buy some Floodlight appeal raffle tickets :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not, it worked for football when the PL was created.

NFL was on its ###### then they revamped it by (WAIT FOR THIS) showing the big hits in slow motion so you could see the ripple effect on the bodies as they were slammed & played classical music on the slow mo.......it was on a documentary over here (US) An English firm did it apparently many years back now.

Imagine seeing the players bodies / faces ripple on the big hits etc.........Look how popular WW whatever fake Wrestling is..........showmanship baby, Sheeple lap it up (sad isnt it) but it works.

RL would be a huge hit (pun intended) if shown in that hollywood showmanship way IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017