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CHRIS BRIDGE

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The fans of these"4" bigger clubs are opposed to DR because;

1 they are fans of clubs that haven't got DR and support their clubs decision

2 they have had it their own way for a long time

One of the clubs most against DR is Barrow. A club who in recent years have cheated their way to success more than any

At least what we are doing is in the rules regardless of the moral standing on the actual principle of DR.

The reasons DR is good for Swinton

1 im a swinton fan and tend to support my clubs decision

2 we have faced more adversity than any club in rugby league yet still we remain. Its time we had a bit of help our way

This argument will rage all season

Ambiguous rumours like the one Terry quotes are not worth my attention.

And finally if DR is abandoned at the end of the year guess what wil happen?

The annual scramble for players will begin

Fev will sign all the best in Yorkshire with Halifax breaking the bank

Leigh will sign all the best in Lancashire and Sheffield will somehow sign a load of good players from the southern hemisphere again despite crowds on a par with ours

The rest of us will scratch around what's left. Hope to pick up a hidden gem from the amateur game or hope to pick off a super league academy star.

Now that system is fair...is it?

Nothing happening on the leigh forum?

You've got our stance all wrong. ..what is a shame is your inability or more likely unwillingness to read it understand it and digest it.

I have read plenty and tried very hard to digest and understand, but honestly find the last bit really difficult as from my perspective the logic being applied is terribly flawed.

If we take the easiest example of Leigh - certainly isn't a club that has had things "all its own way for a long time". From the point of view of local politics Leigh has very similar issues with Wigan as Swinton has with Salford. Leigh RL also suffered mismanagement aplenty in the late 80's and 90's under the likes of Keith Bell that led to Grundy Hill estates buying Hilton Park. Its last serious financial crisis was only 18 months back.

Only 3 years ago Leigh finished 2nd bottom of the Championship and would've gone down if it hadn't have been for Des Johnson's goings on up in Furness. During the era when Swinton Lions were happily spending Hughie Eaves' "earned" money at Gigg Lane, in the most part Leigh was paying its players far less.

So - why are Leigh in a stronger position than the Lions today? Well mainly because at the moment they are better run! While Swinton Lions have talked about a new ground, at Leigh its been delivered. And delivered in a special way, with a facility of real quality that has made the club a central part of education and health provision in the town for generations to come. A Super League compatible facility, done in an affordable and sustainable way. Thoroughout its sometimes troubled history, Leigh RL has never lost its sense of identity. While there was a dip after Arthur Thomas withdrew his financial backing, the Centurians have done lots of work throughout the community it represents and also fostered one of the strongest amateur RL scenes in the entire country.

People at Leigh have put in the work, walked the walk, they are getting the rewards. This ought to be the path to true success - organic success - the sort of work that the game ought to encourage. Grow your club, get better facilities, get a proper marketing strategy, work with others in the community, make the club relevant to people, get more supporters in.... then you ultimately have the means to attract and retain your own players of better quality.

Swinton Lions' partnership with Warrington is addressing none of these things. Its a totally artificial arrangement wherein what little heritage and identity of Swinton Lions thats left is being traded in for a quick fix. It doesn't in truth make Swinton Lions any stronger. It won't "help" Swinton Lions in the long run if the future is merely a question of how far Swinton Lions goes in becoming ever more dependent on Warrington rather than weening itself off and looking to stand on its own two feet. The partnership is not even effective for playing strength in the short-term, for a whole number of reasons - morale of the contracted players, the need to play as a team, the challenge to the authority of the coach which I am convinced has played a big part in Steve McCormack's decision to leave, plus other factors.

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Sorry if I got it wrong Philh I was given to believe he was an half back. On the injury front we have Sam Wreay waiting for a shoulder op, Glenn riley broken hand, Chris C larke broken finger, Jordon burke who was really starting to shine , ankle ligament damage, L'anson broken hand ,who hopefully should be back this week .Dan Birkett hip injury.

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I'm with you there Phil, I reckon he'll play centre (if he plays).

IMO the same 17 that beat Keighley should play against Dewsbury (if fit). We still don't know 100% what goes on behind the scenes regarding the D/R players, although the majority seem to have jumped to their own conclusions.

The rotation of the forwards was spot on, thanks to Marlon and Holland and Mills had brilliant games for us. I don't understand the comments about players not playing "for Swinton" and the lack of identity. We've not played in Swinton for 20 years and the turn around of players over the intervening years has been massive. We don't have our own youth set up and we rarely bring talent from the local amateur sides through. The only proper Swinton lads to play for us recently have come through Warrington's and Salford's youth set up. The 17 lads on the pitch last Saturday played their hearts out for Swinton, no one else. They came over to thank the fans that made the trip and were over the moon with the 3 points.

Unlike the rest of the Championship, Swinton don't play at their own ground. Until that is sorted, all we need is a winning team to keep us in this division.

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Philh can you explain how Leigh have delivered on a ground. Leigh sports village was built and is owned by Wigan council. Without wigan councils help Leigh wouldn't have a ground. We are not so lucky being under the auspices of Salford. Yes Leigh has always been a rugby league hot bed but unlike Swinton they don't have two of the biggest football teams on the planet on there doorstep. Go around the area and see how many rugby pitches you can find as opposed to football This as always been the case, even going back to when I was playing in the early sixties and Swinton were the top team, there was only to junior teams in the area Folly lane and Moorside juniors.

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Try being the player dropped regardless of how well you played the week before for someone who doesnt care about swinton, its not a nice feeling

I could try to be a player, but however hard I tried I would not be good enough to play for Swinton. I do understand what you are referring to though.

However, I am not sure that a team should be made up of those who care most. It is a nice sentiment but unlikely to make the best team and is similar to wanting a team full of players born in Swinton. I think the point being made is that a coach is required to try and get the best team out there of the pitch and to try and win games.

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I have read plenty and tried very hard to digest and understand, but honestly find the last bit really difficult as from my perspective the logic being applied is terribly flawed.

If we take the easiest example of Leigh - certainly isn't a club that has had things "all its own way for a long time". From the point of view of local politics Leigh has very similar issues with Wigan as Swinton has with Salford. Leigh RL also suffered mismanagement aplenty in the late 80's and 90's under the likes of Keith Bell that led to Grundy Hill estates buying Hilton Park. Its last serious financial crisis was only 18 months back.

Only 3 years ago Leigh finished 2nd bottom of the Championship and would've gone down if it hadn't have been for Des Johnson's goings on up in Furness. During the era when Swinton Lions were happily spending Hughie Eaves' "earned" money at Gigg Lane, in the most part Leigh was paying its players far less.

So - why are Leigh in a stronger position than the Lions today? Well mainly because at the moment they are better run! While Swinton Lions have talked about a new ground, at Leigh its been delivered. And delivered in a special way, with a facility of real quality that has made the club a central part of education and health provision in the town for generations to come. A Super League compatible facility, done in an affordable and sustainable way. Thoroughout its sometimes troubled history, Leigh RL has never lost its sense of identity. While there was a dip after Arthur Thomas withdrew his financial backing, the Centurians have done lots of work throughout the community it represents and also fostered one of the strongest amateur RL scenes in the entire country.

People at Leigh have put in the work, walked the walk, they are getting the rewards. This ought to be the path to true success - organic success - the sort of work that the game ought to encourage. Grow your club, get better facilities, get a proper marketing strategy, work with others in the community, make the club relevant to people, get more supporters in.... then you ultimately have the means to attract and retain your own players of better quality.

Swinton Lions' partnership with Warrington is addressing none of these things. Its a totally artificial arrangement wherein what little heritage and identity of Swinton Lions thats left is being traded in for a quick fix. It doesn't in truth make Swinton Lions any stronger. It won't "help" Swinton Lions in the long run if the future is merely a question of how far Swinton Lions goes in becoming ever more dependent on Warrington rather than weening itself off and looking to stand on its own two feet. The partnership is not even effective for playing strength in the short-term, for a whole number of reasons - morale of the contracted players, the need to play as a team, the challenge to the authority of the coach which I am convinced has played a big part in Steve McCormack's decision to leave, plus other factors.

So why are leigh in a better position than us?

They nearly went bust last year!

Youve now decided Barrow are a club worth criticsing. Two weeks ago you were telling us how well theyd done in recent years. ..skilfully overlooking their cheating

This argument is pointless.

All our points are based on opinion .

Despite your fancy words you know as much or as little as the next man as regards which club really is well run.

So call it flawed logic...call it naivity. ..its neither its my point of view...TODAY.

Its subject to change based on evidence which will only be obtained by testing this first season of dual registration.

The personal crusade against every single decision by the Kidds is not subject to change by you. Im prepared to trust in their word. As I am Steve Mccormacks

Something else that I believe maybe naive in your view

I feel I am better placed than most to be forgiven a lack of faith in the decency in a mans word, but it remains strong.

Why is yours so tarnished with cynicism?

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I understand the North stand will be open due to the anticipated rush for tickets brought about by the England CENTRE Bridge plying his trade for the Lions.

Who is Phill H btw ? His rose tinted view of my club is somewhat different to the reality I see week in week out. For info LSV is a debt free stadium, built by land trades eg East and Harriers old sites, in return for sports and education facilities. Leigh needs a leader with a few bob to reach its potential, LSV is made for SL as last years Leeds game showed.

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I could try to be a player, but however hard I tried I would not be good enough to play for Swinton. I do understand what you are referring to though.

However, I am not sure that a team should be made up of those who care most. It is a nice sentiment but unlikely to make the best team and is similar to wanting a team full of players born in Swinton. I think the point being made is that a coach is required to try and get the best team out there of the pitch and to try and win games.

Your missing my point, by all accounts 1-17 players all played well last saturday so who as to lose out and what will that say to the rest of the team just so a wire player can get some match fittness ?

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The only definite in how the club has handled the DR situation is that it has split our fan base right down the middle which is a shame as there aren't that many of us left.I agree with the comments posted by Shizonay,some action needed on Agecroft ASAP.

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Philh can you explain how Leigh have delivered on a ground. Leigh sports village was built and is owned by Wigan council. Without wigan councils help Leigh wouldn't have a ground. We are not so lucky being under the auspices of Salford. Yes Leigh has always been a rugby league hot bed but unlike Swinton they don't have two of the biggest football teams on the planet on there doorstep. Go around the area and see how many rugby pitches you can find as opposed to football This as always been the case, even going back to when I was playing in the early sixties and Swinton were the top team, there was only to junior teams in the area Folly lane and Moorside juniors.

The driving force for delivery of LSV was a group of key people from across the Leigh community, representing education providers, amateur and professional sport and the local health service under the umbrella of the Leigh Sports Partnership and chaired by current Chief Executive of Leigh Centurians, Trevor Barton.

Wigan Borough Council wasn't in the driving seat - it merely worked with the Leigh Sports Partnership to help deliver their vision. It shouldn't be overlooked that LSV has a lot more to it than the main stadium.

Funding for LSV came not from council tax revenues but a combination of; aggregation (sale of the former homes of Leigh East ARLFC and Leigh Harriers athletics club), cross-subsidising (Morrisons and the Hotel on the LSV site alongside the sports facilities) and grants. So of course it is council owned and that is entirely fitting - the assets that were sold to raise the money and the land on which the development is sited were all council owned and the objectives of LSV go well beyond a rugby league venue into education and leisure facility provision. The ethos of the development is to provide a suite of integrated facilities for the entire community to use, and hasn't it been done well!

Without wigan councils help Leigh wouldn't have a ground.

While it is true that LSV would not have been possible without Wigan Borough Council being prepared to oblidge the wishes of the Leigh Sports Partnership, you are firstly overlooking the probablility that Hilton Park would otherwise still be in existance. What is more pertinent to LSV is that Wigan Borough Council would not have acted if it weren't for the effectiveness of the Leigh Sports Partnership and it would be more a accurate reflection to say - without Trevor Barton LSV wouldn't have happened.

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All of which has what exactly to do with whether swinton should play Chris Bridge or any DR players?

Thats all about LSV an entirely separate venture. ..not a lot to do with leigh rlfc who nearly went bust last year...a fact that hasnt changed despite that lengthy essay telling us how much you know.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion. ..but every opinion is NOT about how rubbish our club is especially this rugby league wide one...leigh benefitted quite nicely by it more than most in the last few seasons and everyone's favourite Ryan Brierley is there because of it

I dont see the difference

Apart from you like big Trev and aren't so keen on JK

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So why are leigh in a better position than us?

They nearly went bust last year!

Youve now decided Barrow are a club worth criticsing. Two weeks ago you were telling us how well theyd done in recent years. ..skilfully overlooking their cheating

This argument is pointless.

All our points are based on opinion .

Despite your fancy words you know as much or as little as the next man as regards which club really is well run.

So call it flawed logic...call it naivity. ..its neither its my point of view...TODAY.

Its subject to change based on evidence which will only be obtained by testing this first season of dual registration.

The personal crusade against every single decision by the Kidds is not subject to change by you. Im prepared to trust in their word. As I am Steve Mccormacks

Something else that I believe maybe naive in your view

I feel I am better placed than most to be forgiven a lack of faith in the decency in a mans word, but it remains strong.

Why is yours so tarnished with cynicism?

The answer to your first question is contained in my preceding post - Leigh Centurians currently is a better run club than Swinton Lions. I suspect what you meant to ask was "How is Leigh Centurians in a better position than Swinton Lions?". Those answers are very obvious - Leigh Centurians have a Super League standard facility located within the home community, with integral links to a whole range of partner organisations. Leigh Centurians has roughly a 4 times larger support base. I could go on, but its all very obvious stuff. So obvious that you seemed to think Leigh has "had things their own way for a long time".

I did not even mention "Barrow"! What I am prepared to do is criticise Des Johnson and his track record of mismanagement while he was chairman there. That is, the culpability for the cheating that undoubtedly went on rests firmly at the door of Des Johnson as an individual, plus anyone that directly assisted him or was willfully complicit in his behaviours. That is totally different to criticising the Barrow club as a whole.

Ask Barrow supporters today what they think of Des Johnson and I doubt any will have a good word to say about him.

To use your words again - did Des Johnson merely inflict "adversity" on Barrow RLFC, or would it be truer to say he was guilty of blatant mismanagement of Barrow RLFC?

Think again of that question in terms of Swinton Lions - have the rogues that have been involved at Swinton Lions over the years merely inflicted "adversity" on Swinton Lions, or would it be truer to say that they were guilty of blatant mismanagment?

In my view the answer its down to mismanagement and this shows why it is important that supporters don't always simply "support their club's decision". Sometimes it is right to question, as those in charge don't always get it right or act in the club's best long term interests. Its happened virtually everywhere at some point and the consequences have often been drastic.

By the way its not the first season of dual registration, that concept has been around a while and Swinton Lions used it last season too - remember?

Its very arrogant of you to presume you know and understand why other people have a different take on DR than yourself. Many people throughout the game have expressed serious reservations about the way DR is being done this season, whom have no affiliation whatsoever to the 4 clubs concerned (take Phil Clarke last week). Many people who follow clubs that have implemented dual registration are also firmly against the idea.

On two of the biggest decisions John Kidd has taken in recent years I've happily held a belief he's got it right: Hiring of Steve McCormack as coach; Chosing to play at the LSV. If I remember correctly on the latter issue I was the only contributor on here that speculated LSV would be a good choice, prior to the big public meeting when it was actually announced. I was just about the only contributor on here who also supported the re-signing of David Mills for this season, too.

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I don't recall Leigh being out of their community for 20 years.if it wasn't for the Kidds we would not have a team to follow. Maybe that's what some on here want. Of course we would all love a set up like LSV but we need a competitive team on the field which will hopefully bring more support through the turnstiles and bring the kind of interest and commitment from people within our own community to make it happen. I dream of the day we return to M 27 but if the Kidds walk away and let's be honest who would blame them, we are finished. DR is not ideal and I also understand the feelings of all supporters but lets support our team and our club and force people to sit up and take notice.

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Ok enough of talking about other teams !

Big game for the lads this weekend and i expect Watto and Marlon will have the same 17 at their disposal plus Chris Bridge and Chaz I'Anson (if fit). Whoever they decide to play lets get behind them and look for victory number two as we have a very tough month in front of us.

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The answer to your first question is contained in my preceding post - Leigh Centurians currently is a better run club than Swinton Lions. I suspect what you meant to ask was "How is Leigh Centurians in a better position than Swinton Lions?". Those answers are very obvious - Leigh Centurians have a Super League standard facility located within the home community, with integral links to a whole range of partner organisations. Leigh Centurians has roughly a 4 times larger support base. I could go on, but its all very obvious stuff. So obvious that you seemed to think Leigh has "had things their own way for a long time".

I did not even mention "Barrow"! What I am prepared to do is criticise Des Johnson and his track record of mismanagement while he was chairman there. That is, the culpability for the cheating that undoubtedly went on rests firmly at the door of Des Johnson as an individual, plus anyone that directly assisted him or was willfully complicit in his behaviours. That is totally different to criticising the Barrow club as a whole.

Ask Barrow supporters today what they think of Des Johnson and I doubt any will have a good word to say about him.

To use your words again - did Des Johnson merely inflict "adversity" on Barrow RLFC, or would it be truer to say he was guilty of blatant mismanagement of Barrow RLFC?

Think again of that question in terms of Swinton Lions - have the rogues that have been involved at Swinton Lions over the years merely inflicted "adversity" on Swinton Lions, or would it be truer to say that they were guilty of blatant mismanagment?

In my view the answer its down to mismanagement and this shows why it is important that supporters don't always simply "support their club's decision". Sometimes it is right to question, as those in charge don't always get it right or act in the club's best long term interests. Its happened virtually everywhere at some point and the consequences have often been drastic.

By the way its not the first season of dual registration, that concept has been around a while and Swinton Lions used it last season too - remember?

Its very arrogant of you to presume you know and understand why other people have a different take on DR than yourself. Many people throughout the game have expressed serious reservations about the way DR is being done this season, whom have no affiliation whatsoever to the 4 clubs concerned (take Phil Clarke last week). Many people who follow clubs that have implemented dual registration are also firmly against the idea.

On two of the biggest decisions John Kidd has taken in recent years I've happily held a belief he's got it right: Hiring of Steve McCormack as coach; Chosing to play at the LSV. If I remember correctly on the latter issue I was the only contributor on here that speculated LSV would be a good choice, prior to the big public meeting when it was actually announced. I was just about the only contributor on here who also supported the re-signing of David Mills for this season, too.

See I knew you couldn't read!

Ive stated all along that I have my reservations about DR.

Ive stated all along that this is a league wide issue

You pick the tiniest part of an argument an expose it yet fail yet again to appreciate my stance and that of many other fans.

I dont know it will work. I don't know the answer. I dont really understand the question

What I will not do is stand by and see a decent man continually berated for decisions he makes on a thread about team selection.

If I am arrogant. .naive..or confused ....physician heal thyself!

Riggy...a timely intervention this week!

If watty can engineer us a win...hes the man for the job.

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What assets are there to buy?

The very same assets that John Kidd purchased.

Your knowledge of all things Leigh is extensive so in view of that fact and the fact you seem to hate all things Swinton, wouldn't your time be better spent passing your knowledge on to Leigh fans.

As for your ridiculous comments regarding me on other forums you will find they were aimed at Salford and many at two people who I actually know.

What is worrying is that a little man like you spends time looking for them.

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Even if we dont manage a win at weekend i would still give Watto the job. He knows Swinton inside out, hes been a Swinton fan all his life, he has good contacts in the game and Played under good coaches .He is the one who persuaded Morty to sign for us and im sure he got a few other players on board aswell .

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Even if we dont manage a win at weekend i would still give Watto the job. He knows Swinton inside out, hes been a Swinton fan all his life, he has good contacts in the game and Played under good coaches .He is the one who persuaded Morty to sign for us and im sure he got a few other players on board aswell .

Id like to be convinced by another good performance. ..but yes I guess that a good performance or a draw not just a win would do

I think watty is a top lad. A move to coaching is probably what he needs at this stage of his playing career

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Ormsby is the only player to drop out, hence bridge at centre

So a load od fuss for nowt!

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Exactly ! Well said Mark

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Looking forward to Sunday now !

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