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superten

how can we help rl in wales ?

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1. We need to build the two welsh clubs slowly I do think that teams that come in to rugby league strive for the top to quickly.The way forward is to get both established in the championship and slowly build fan base .

2. All the teams we fast track seem to go look at paris and gateshead in super league. Sheffields approach when formed in 84 was the right way slow improvements year on year .

1. Fanbases do not grow in CC1 they stay at a couple of hundred year on year. Fanbases go nowhere in CC either.

2. Paris got over 10,000 in their first game Gateshead averaged 4,000.

The only reason these clubs failed was a lack of sustained investment.

RL clubs cannot grow without heavy investment, the game is too weak.

IMHO of course but I looked up the crowds and the reasons why Paris and Gateshead failed.

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S4C show Welsh League football on a saturday afternoon, if scorpions / crusaders games could be moved to alternate saturdays the games could be shown then. No union or football over summer so gnoll and racecourse should be free for saturday games.

At a time when S4C's budget is being decreased (if I remember correctly) I imagine getting them to take on Scorpions would prove difficult.

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At a time when S4C's budget is being decreased (if I remember correctly) I imagine getting them to take on Scorpions would prove difficult.

Maybe yes, maybe no. S4C sells adverts to subsidise its output. Rugby, I would guess, draws probably the biggest audience on the channel.

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It's Pobol y Cwm that's the big draw (100,000 viewers out of 250,000 Welsh speakers) although rugby union gets into the top 10 (a Thursday evening live match between Bayonne and the Dragons). [Link]

I have asked about showing rugby league a few times via tweets and only ever had the reply that they'd look into it. Combined with football and cricket they do show a fair amount of live sport and they may feel that bunging on a bit more isn't really meeting their brief to be the 'all things to everyone' Welsh language channel.

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was just thinking that perhaps they wouldnt be able to show the games as it'd be infringing on Premier Sports rights. Not sure if they've got exclusivity or have just bought the rights to 32 games

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It's Pobol y Cwm that's the big draw (100,000 viewers out of 250,000 Welsh speakers) although rugby union gets into the top 10 (a Thursday evening live match between Bayonne and the Dragons). [Link]

I have asked about showing rugby league a few times via tweets and only ever had the reply that they'd look into it. Combined with football and cricket they do show a fair amount of live sport and they may feel that bunging on a bit more isn't really meeting their brief to be the 'all things to everyone' Welsh language channel.

What we could do with is a Pobol Y Cwm script that pitches family/friend strife after a promising rugby union player switches to rugby league.

Or vice versa.

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What we could do with is a Pobol Y Cwm script that pitches family/friend strife after a promising rugby union player switches to rugby league.

Or vice versa.

Crusadin_photoman likes this!

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was just thinking that perhaps they wouldnt be able to show the games as it'd be infringing on Premier Sports rights. Not sure if they've got exclusivity or have just bought the rights to 32 games

I'd assume they have exclusive rights as they've paid for it. The last time S4C showed RL was pre-SL Crusaders, this at a time when Sky might've been showing Championship games, but weren't exactly paying much for the privilege. And S4C's budget is being cut by a fair bit, as the BBC are now part funding the channel out of the licence fee.

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Crowds grew on that success.

P & R is the lifeblood of British sport Parky. For god's sake learn something.

There was little or no local interest in Crusaders - any crowds were away supporters. When Fev played them in the Championship in 2008 on the eve of Magic Weekend they had a good crowd - most of them were either fans down for the Magic Weekend or Fev fans. For that matter most of the crowd at the Magic Weekend were not Welsh. I have this from an eyewitness who went for the entire weekend including the Fev game. We are kidding ourselves in Wales. I'm not saying don't promote the game, but as the coaches say don't try and force it - if the Welsh want it then given a bit of publicity it'll grow but if they don't it won't. Union is struggling in South Wales at the moment because of the ridiculous megers and at the moment, Swansea AFC are prospering in the Premiership so what chance do we have.

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P & R is the lifeblood of British sport Parky. For god's sake learn something.

There was little or no local interest in Crusaders - any crowds were away supporters. When Fev played them in the Championship in 2008 on the eve of Magic Weekend they had a good crowd - most of them were either fans down for the Magic Weekend or Fev fans.

2006 671

2007 1070

2008 1929

2009 3603

There's the facts. The rise of Crusaders promoted from CC1 to CC to Superleague increased the crowds

Those figures look something like what Featherstone may end up with if like Crusaders they run out of money.

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Essentially the Crusaders took that route. They won promotion from CC1 to CC.

Then they were neck and neck with Salford in the Championship and both were promoted into Superleague.

Crowds grew on that success.

But the success was money driven and the money ran out and Crusaders collapsed.

So the promotion thing happened for Cru, the crowd growth happened for Cru but it was all money driven.

Without money nobody can rise through the leagues to Superleague status and survive and compete.

We have two welsh clubs in the league who can be promoted and can get to the top of CC and I would guess be welcome with open arms for promotion to SL by license if they had the money.

Had Dr. Koukash taken over Scorpions, the RFL would be preparing a place for them now.

P & R is a red herring.

Not many Dr Koukash's stop around very long and if P & R had never been killed off the wealth would be distributed more evenly.

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2006 671

2007 1070

2008 1929

2009 3603

There's the facts. The rise of Crusaders promoted from CC1 to CC to Superleague increased the crowds

Those figures look something like what Featherstone may end up with if like Crusaders they run out of money.

Parky - As you know automatic promotion was removed the following season Crusaders were promoted automatically from the third tier. This meant they did not build a roll on for SL and the NL GF was a dead rubber and hence was a poor crowd. If they'd had to get into SL the proper way as they had done the year before, I think their crowds would have been higher. Fans love a promotion race

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2006 671

2007 1070

2008 1929

2009 3603

There's the facts. The rise of Crusaders promoted from CC1 to CC to Superleague increased the crowds

Those figures look something like what Featherstone may end up with if like Crusaders they run out of money.

Talk about a U-turn.

You've spent the last five years arguing that "you can't build in the national leagues".

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Essentially the Crusaders took that route. They won promotion from CC1 to CC.

Then they were neck and neck with Salford in the Championship and both were promoted into Superleague.

Crowds grew on that success.

1. Fanbases do not grow in CC1 they stay at a couple of hundred year on year. Fanbases go nowhere in CC either.

Even in the same thread you can't be consistent.

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One think you can't do is join "Team Wales" membership is closed, not sure if thats because of over subscription or a lack of interest, but hope its the former!

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2006 671

2007 1070

2008 1929

2009 3603

There's the facts. The rise of Crusaders promoted from CC1 to CC to Superleague increased the crowds

Those figures look something like what Featherstone may end up with if like Crusaders they run out of money.

I reckon most of those fans were away fans Parky. Face it Union is struggling for crowds (and players) due to the stupid merged regional sides for which the local folk have no affinity, and the strength of Swansea City. What chance do we have? Give the game some publicity by all means, if the Welsh take to our game they'll support to it . I suspect what I was told in a bar in Adeje last March whilst watching Leeds v Wire by a Welsh RU fan is nearer ther mark "we'll watch it on the telly but wouldn't go to a game"

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I suspect what I was told in a bar in Adeje last March whilst watching Leeds v Wire by a Welsh RU fan is nearer ther mark "we'll watch it on the telly but wouldn't go to a game"

I'll tell that to the Welsh rugby union fans I've been to games with. It'll be confusing for them but it's for the best.

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I think the interest generated in an on-the-field promotion race for SL could really pull crowds in. This just will not happen under our current system because the games dont really mean anything. It was a shame promotion to SL was ditched when it was because Celtic Crusaders were on a roll after being promoted to NL1 and could have gone up automatically as righful champs (they may have beaten Salford in the final if it hadnt been a dead rubber).

We NEED a rethink on promotion to SL if there is to be any hope of non heartland teams getting into SL and building up a groundswell of fans

This is arrant nonsense and cannot be left unchallenged. Repeating it ad nauseum done not make it true. It has been comprehensively debunked on here time after time after time on here yet Lobby "Black Knight" gobbler persists with his one man crusade . You can see him in action

Hint: Lobby is the one without a leg to stand on.

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1. Fanbases do not grow in CC1 they stay at a couple of hundred year on year. Fanbases go nowhere in CC either.

2. Paris got over 10,000 in their first game Gateshead averaged 4,000.

The only reason these clubs failed was a lack of sustained investment.

RL clubs cannot grow without heavy investment, the game is too weak.

IMHO of course but I looked up the crowds and the reasons why Paris and Gateshead failed.

the fan fair of paris was loads of free tickets to early games didnt they get 500 crowd for home game with salford . like paris gateshead also gave out free tickets.Need to build the two slowly give more publicity more big games in wales. Give wales more international matches. Theres plenty of history in the game in wales and plenty of former great players we need to work and build on it , you get nothing with out hard work so if we want a successful wales which to me england and france both really need then we need to help as much as we can .

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Give Wales international matches. That's actually the best idea - and you could bet that a summer series against France and Samoa (say) would be of interest to media and broadcasters. And do a lot to help ensure players commit to Wales.

That said, where's the money?

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I'd assume they have exclusive rights as they've paid for it. The last time S4C showed RL was pre-SL Crusaders, this at a time when Sky might've been showing Championship games, but weren't exactly paying much for the privilege. And S4C's budget is being cut by a fair bit, as the BBC are now part funding the channel out of the licence fee.

I don't know the details of Premier Sport's deal, but S4C sometime show T20 cricket, which, for the most part, is shown on Sky. So there may be room for manoeuvre there.

I like the OP idea of Challenge Cup semis being in Wales, but maybe starting with next year? We're asking fans to stump up extra in this World Cup year a trip to (say) Swansea for (say) Hull FC and Saints fans may be a bit of an ask this year.

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Need to build the two slowly give more publicity more big games in wales. Give wales more international matches. Theres plenty of history in the game in wales and plenty of former great players we need to work and build on it , you get nothing with out hard work so if we want a successful wales which to me england and france both really need then we need to help as much as we can .

We need to help as much as we can and continue to promote the game in Wales for sure.

But the Championship/CC1 is a league where you don't attract many fans even in M62 land.

I can show you traditional clubs who have busted a gut for 30, 50 even 100+ years and got nowhere.

You can't build in the championships, crowds last year hovered from 282 to 2060 it's not even enough to pay the wages.

Clubs who have made real advancements have done it in SL where rich men and local councils have acted as Benefactors and even then several clubs still struggle badly.

IMHO we must do what we can within the bounds of reality. Disproving the idea clubs can start at the bottom and build and build to Superleague level may hurt the dreams and sensibilities of some on here, but good business is working within realities and accepting constraints.

Let's do what we can for sure.

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I'd assume they have exclusive rights as they've paid for it. The last time S4C showed RL was pre-SL Crusaders, this at a time when Sky might've been showing Championship games, but weren't exactly paying much for the privilege. And S4C's budget is being cut by a fair bit, as the BBC are now part funding the channel out of the licence fee.

Perhaps they could come to some sort of deal by which Premier Sports does most of the leg-work in terms of filming and so on, in exchange for advertising rights during matches? Even a relatively small S4C audience is probably wider than Premier could afford to advertise to on a terrestrial channel at present, and with Wales having very high numbers of Sky subscribers, you'd think they could find themselves a few new subscribers that way.

Obviously, S4C do a lot of stuff with the BBC, so they're no strangers to these sorts of arrangements, and it could work out well for all concerned.

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I'll tell that to the Welsh rugby union fans I've been to games with. It'll be confusing for them but it's for the best.

I can only report what I heard. They were enjoying the game and I asked if they'd ever been to RL and that was their answer.

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the fan fair of paris was loads of free tickets to early games didnt they get 500 crowd for home game with salford . like paris gateshead also gave out free tickets.Need to build the two slowly give more publicity more big games in wales. Give wales more international matches. Theres plenty of history in the game in wales and plenty of former great players we need to work and build on it , you get nothing with out hard work so if we want a successful wales which to me england and france both really need then we need to help as much as we can .

The thing that never seems to be mentioned re Gateshead is that they were refused Sky money for their SL season. That had to have been a major factor in their financial failure. On the field and at the gate they did decently for an inaugral season in a virgin area but to saddle them with doing it on way less than their fellow SL teams were getting was tantamount to condemning them to failure before they even kicked off their first game.

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