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flyingking

Nigel Wood- London must improve

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You are so one eyed it's incredible.

Scorpions and Crusaders are still there?

Last night I watched two Welsh lads hammer away at the Leeds pack and do as well as anyone on the pitch.

I'll send you a cigar if you can name them?

Doncaster and York are still there can you not see what impact they've made on the game parky :D ? and both are in Yorkshire.

For almost all their history Doncaster have been an object of at best pity and at worst ridicule: remmber another bloody Sunday?

York are one the the sports sleeping Giants to the extent that Rip van Winkle is an insomniac let's hope av Wilson and those around him can kick some ass.

I would suggest that Skorpions and Crusaders are rather more than 'still there'

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Perhaps a bit ott there, Johnoco? People who live in the USA tend to like baseball, people who live in the UK tend to like cricket. Many people who live on the Indian subcontinent like Kabaddi (sp?) people who live in Brazil tend to like soccer.

Not comparing like for like exactly (I've used countries, the original argument was based on much smaller geographic entities), but there is some substance in the idea that where you were brought up (and, by extension, where you live) would have an impact on which sports you follow.

there is a lot in what you say Tony

If you were brought up in the North of England, chance are you like soccer.

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there is a lot in what you say Tony

If you were brought up in the North of England, chance are you like soccer.

I did. Then I grew up. :)

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Perhaps a bit ott there, Johnoco? People who live in the USA tend to like baseball, people who live in the UK tend to like cricket. Many people who live on the Indian subcontinent like Kabaddi (sp?) people who live in Brazil tend to like soccer.

Not comparing like for like exactly (I've used countries, the original argument was based on much smaller geographic entities), but there is some substance in the idea that where you were brought up (and, by extension, where you live) would have an impact on which sports you follow.

Yes but the difference is this: I can well understand that if you grow up in Canada you may well end up as an Ice Hockey fan, that's perfectly logical. This doesn't mean though that there is some genetic programming going on that says only you and those in your immediate area can appreciate or play the game. Or that you would find it strange for others could enjoy it too.

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You are so one eyed it's incredible.

Scorpions and Crusaders are still there?

Last night I watched two Welsh lads hammer away at the Leeds pack and do as well as anyone on the pitch.

I'll send you a cigar if you can name them?

Yeah watched by two men and a dog - a bit like London really. I don't like it but it's the way things are. Rugby League outside its birth counties (can't say heartlands any more it upsets Chris - not hard) is not a paying proposition. Slagging off the likes of Doncaster and York is not the answer. Saying yeah but they're just as bad or worse. The whole point of clubs in London or Wales is to have some success, and we are having the opposite. Running a Super League club with inelligble players and then pulling the rug because it aint easy is hardly the stuff that expansion is made of.

The point is that evenly the moderately successful clubs in Super League or the higher echelons of the Championship play in front of decent crowds on a regular basis. London's last game was in front of a crowd of 1600 which half according to Lobby who was there were from Hull and a good number of the rest were schoolkids let in for nowt. It wouldn't matter as much if they were having some success on the field but they're not. Say what you like about Sheffield, they beat Fev the other night and no other club in the Championhip has managed that so far this season. Fair play to 'em!

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Yes but the difference is this: I can well understand that if you grow up in Canada you may well end up as an Ice Hockey fan, that's perfectly logical. This doesn't mean though that there is some genetic programming going on that says only you and those in your immediate area can appreciate or play the game. Or that you would find it strange for others could enjoy it too.

True, but I think with some people (like me) the brain gets hardwired to follow a club and sport between being 10-15 years old, as a result of various experiences (e.g. winning the league/cup, avoiding relegation in the last minute etc).

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True, but I think with some people (like me) the brain gets hardwired to follow a club and sport between being 10-15 years old, as a result of various experiences (e.g. winning the league/cup, avoiding relegation in the last minute etc).

That's just following a certain team though, which most people do. It doesn't lead to only liking sports or things only from your local area.

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You are so one eyed it's incredible.

Scorpions and Crusaders are still there?

Last night I watched two Welsh lads hammer away at the Leeds pack and do as well as anyone on the pitch.

I'll send you a cigar if you can name them?

Earlier in the week you were arguing that Broncos demise would be a tragedy and that saying that Skolars & Stags were no consolation. Now the wind has changed direction and it suits you to argue that we still have a meaningful presence in Wales with Scorpions and Crusaders.

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These weren't attempts at missionary work. I find it a source of sadness that Rugby League has a so called 'heartlands', somethingwhic others seem proud of and somthing which depressingly we are being urged to retreat to.

Do cricket, union, soccer, field hockey blah de blah have heartlands? Do they hell.

I'd rather RL was played everywhere but I'd glad we at least have one region where the sport is strong. We shouldn't diss the heartlands, there would be no RL if Yorks, Lancs and Cumbria had not embraced the game and kept it going.

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I'd rather RL was played everywhere but I'd glad we at least have one region where the sport is strong. We shouldn't diss the heartlands, there would be no RL if Yorks, Lancs and Cumbria had not embraced the game and kept it going.

but it isn't strong. It is minority sport in its own' heartlands'. I a not dissing 'the heartlands', far from it. I do have a distatste for the stereotype that it rpresents, since it limits thesports percievedavailability, and well I just can't do wit thatb stuff and the people who purvey it. I'm just dismayed at the situaion as a whole. Which other team prt in England has a 'heartlands'.

Retreating to those heartlands- a situation some see as a good thin,g fills mewith dread

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but it isn't strong. It is minority sport in its own' heartlands'. I a not dissing 'the heartlands', far from it. I do have a distatste for the stereotype that it rpresents, since it limits thesports percievedavailability, and well I just can't do wit thatb stuff and the people who purvey it. I'm just dismayed at the situaion as a whole. Which other team prt in England has a 'heartlands'.

Every sport bar soccer is a minority sport in England. Neither cricket nor union have a region as strong as our heartlands. It is unrealistic to expect to be much stronger in the heartlands than we are.

The problem is that we are extremely weak everywhere else.

Retreating to those heartlands- a situation some see as a good thin,g fills mewith dread

Let me be clear, I do not agree with Trojan and we've had our differences but I think it's unfair to say that he views this as "a good thing". He just views it as an inevitability that must be accepted.

Personally I think that sides like Skolars, Hemel, Oxford etc represent a new future for the game. We just need to think in terms of decades not years.

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Mmmm the heartlands are no were near saturated. Some of the biggest towns and cities know very little of rugby league

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Retreating to those heartlands- a situation some see as a good thing fills me with dread.

It's a good thing in terms of some people's personal agenda.

You take London and Catalans out of Superleague and you then have to replace them with....well there you go.

Talking of personal agendas, Northern Sol, stop posting messages to me personally attacking me, your on ignore and your not going to get an answer. We fundamentally disagree on most things let's leave it at that.

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Rugby League outside its birth counties is not a paying proposition.

The whole point of clubs in London or Wales is to have some success, and we are having the opposite.

Slagging off the likes of Doncaster and York is not the answer.

It's not a paying proposition anywhere other than at a small number of big clubs. Use that criteria and you have a Superleague of half a dozen clubs.

Your using your own criteria to condemn London and Wales, but not applying it to "Heartland clubs".

You admire any heartland club for mere survival yet condemn London and Wales for not being a roaring success?

How one eyed is that??

How biased was it to say Londons crowd against Widnes was one half widnes fans and the rest free tickets.

Last year Crusaders crowds were 927.

That beat the crowds of York, Swinton, Hunslet, Workington, Whitehaven, Doncaster, Oldham and Rochdale.

London Skolars had bigger crowds than Hunslet!

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Every sport bar soccer is a minority sport in England. Neither cricket nor union have a region as strong as our heartlands. It is unrealistic to expect to be much stronger in the heartlands than we are.

The problem is that we are extremely weak everywhere else.

Let me be clear, I do not agree with Trojan and we've had our differences but I think it's unfair to say that he views this as "a good thing". He just views it as an inevitability that must be accepted.

Personally I think that sides like Skolars, Hemel, Oxford etc represent a new future for the game. We just need to think in terms of decades not years.

I take your point about soccer: but look at it this way rugby league is a minority sport demographically union isn't cricket isn't: and that includes its own heartlands.

just to be absolutely clear: none of my comments relate to anything that Trojan has said. They re just my views on the situation.

I agree with your last comment entirely

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Mmmm the heartlands are no were near saturated. Some of the biggest towns and cities know very little of rugby league

quite

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We shouldn't diss the heartlands, there would be no RL if Yorks, Lancs and Cumbria had not embraced the game and kept it going.

There would, but its heartlands would be in Australia. Now that's an expansion effort that took off good style.

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Perhaps a bit ott there, Johnoco? People who live in the USA tend to like baseball, people who live in the UK tend to like cricket. Many people who live on the Indian subcontinent like Kabaddi (sp?) people who live in Brazil tend to like soccer.

Not comparing like for like exactly (I've used countries, the original argument was based on much smaller geographic entities), but there is some substance in the idea that where you were brought up (and, by extension, where you live) would have an impact on which sports you follow.

I agree with your synopsis but people can also pick up new sports in new areas. I was in a sports bar yesterday watching the 6 nations and in a small corner were a group of Dominican Republic citizens going wild watching the Dominican Republic play Puerto Rico in the World Baseball classic aka the baseball world cup. In their previous game they knocked off the USA. The two time defending champions are Japan. Teams from Australia, Holland, Italy and many South American countries as well as Canada, Korea and China are in this tournament.

The USA invented modern baseball and it was played there alone for ,many decades but the spread of the game is growing. Japanese baseball is a hugely succesful fully pro league with huge stadia jammed with huge crowds.

I don't see that RL can't spread and develop in the same way and seems to be slowly doing so. Sports can spread to new areas successfully. Rugby ( League nor Union) has done so int the past. The game was originally an England only sport.

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but it isn't strong. It is minority sport in its own' heartlands'. I a not dissing 'the heartlands', far from it. I do have a distatste for the stereotype that it rpresents, since it limits thesports percievedavailability, and well I just can't do wit thatb stuff and the people who purvey it. I'm just dismayed at the situaion as a whole. Which other team prt in England has a 'heartlands'.

Retreating to those heartlands- a situation some see as a good thin,g fills mewith dread

Rugby Union, anything south of Nottingham.

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It's a good thing in terms of some people's personal agenda.

You take London and Catalans out of Superleague and you then have to replace them with....well there you go.

Talking of personal agendas, Northern Sol, stop posting messages to me personally attacking me, your on ignore and your not going to get an answer. We fundamentally disagree on most things let's leave it at that.

No.

You refer to me in your posts dispute having me on ignore and even reply to some points I made.

You have made some very arrogant and dismissive posts in the past claiming that "flatties" have their heads in the sand refusing to see the writing on the wall. Every one of your predictions was wrong, some humble pie would be in order. Instead you continue to behave in exactly the same way. I'm merely exposing what you have said before and how it was proved wrong and the many cases where you have contradicted yourself.

Perhaps you could consider a change in posting style. If you would merely stick to what is known, not insult people as inbred whippet keepers living in terraced houses that hate southerners, not put words into people's mouths, talk about "hidden agendas" etc then I would not feel the need to point out what you have posted in the past.

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Last year Crusaders crowds were 927.

That beat the crowds of York, Swinton, Hunslet, Workington, Whitehaven, Doncaster, Oldham and Rochdale.

London Skolars had bigger crowds than Hunslet!

Again this contradicts your claims that "you can't build in the championship". If Skolars got bigger crowds than Hunslet and Crusaders got decent (for this level) crowds then this is because their support has grown despite not being a SL side. Time to acknowledge it.

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There would, but its heartlands would be in Australia. Now that's an expansion effort that took off good style.

I agree that RL would still be played in Aus even if it had died out over here decades ago but it only got set-up over there because it was a success over here.

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I agree with your synopsis but people can also pick up new sports in new areas. I was in a sports bar yesterday watching the 6 nations and in a small corner were a group of Dominican Republic citizens going wild watching the Dominican Republic play Puerto Rico in the World Baseball classic aka the baseball world cup. In their previous game they knocked off the USA. The two time defending champions are Japan. Teams from Australia, Holland, Italy and many South American countries as well as Canada, Korea and China are in this tournament.

The USA invented modern baseball and it was played there alone for ,many decades but the spread of the game is growing. Japanese baseball is a hugely succesful fully pro league with huge stadia jammed with huge crowds.

I don't see that RL can't spread and develop in the same way and seems to be slowly doing so. Sports can spread to new areas successfully. Rugby ( League nor Union) has done so int the past. The game was originally an England only sport.

You are right, sports can expand. How else did soccer become so globally dominant? It is played (possibly even professionally?) in just about every country on the planet.

Where I think you might need to be cautious is with the time scale.

Baseball, for example, has been played professionally in Japan for decades. I suspect since the end of WW2, but I'm not sure. The Caribbean has also been home to very high-level baseball competitions for decades. Cuba is the biggest example, but the Dominican Republic has also been baseball mad for a very long time. I don't want to wiki this (I'm lazy) but I suspect that those Caribbean islands which fell under the influence of the USA took up baseball, while those that fell under the influence of the UK took up cricket. I suspect that the 'social colonisation' preceded the sporting one and, in a sense, created the fertile ground into which the sport rooted itself more easily.

Sorry for the poncy way I've expressed that, but I'm sure you'll get my drift.

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You are right, sports can expand. How else did soccer become so globally dominant? It is played (possibly even professionally?) in just about every country on the planet.

Where I think you might need to be cautious is with the time scale.

Baseball, for example, has been played professionally in Japan for decades. I suspect since the end of WW2, but I'm not sure. The Caribbean has also been home to very high-level baseball competitions for decades. Cuba is the biggest example, but the Dominican Republic has also been baseball mad for a very long time. I don't want to wiki this (I'm lazy) but I suspect that those Caribbean islands which fell under the influence of the USA took up baseball, while those that fell under the influence of the UK took up cricket. I suspect that the 'social colonisation' preceded the sporting one and, in a sense, created the fertile ground into which the sport rooted itself more easily.

Sorry for the poncy way I've expressed that, but I'm sure you'll get my drift.

I do get your drift and you are right. Today's equivalent of the armed forces spreading the game might be the dedicated volunteers and development officers from tghe RLEF and maybe the RLIF. Also, another factor which ws not present in the original spead of sports cultures was TV. Millions of people around the world can see formerly unknown and sports and, particularlry in the cse of RL, can be attracted by the competition, physicality and athletic excellence of the sport and tghen , along comes expat worker Tommy Atkins or Bruce Fosters or even Jean Francais and proposes founding a team or two and voila, league is spread to the wider world. This is much easier to do with league since the demise of the RU ban and I think modern progress on the international front has a lot to do with that. In my area of the globe, Canada, the US and Jamaica have all gone that route. Last week the foundation of the Trinidad national body for RL was announced.

If we continue with our efforts, I think RL is on the cusp of a massive global expansion in many countries. Yes many of them are small time operations but, as you said, over time things can grow bigger and better. The NRL and the Australian game in general is the shining light in this regard.

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You are right, sports can expand. How else did soccer become so globally dominant? It is played (possibly even professionally?) in just about every country on the planet.

Where I think you might need to be cautious is with the time scale.

Baseball, for example, has been played professionally in Japan for decades. I suspect since the end of WW2, but I'm not sure. The Caribbean has also been home to very high-level baseball competitions for decades. Cuba is the biggest example, but the Dominican Republic has also been baseball mad for a very long time. I don't want to wiki this (I'm lazy) but I suspect that those Caribbean islands which fell under the influence of the USA took up baseball, while those that fell under the influence of the UK took up cricket. I suspect that the 'social colonisation' preceded the sporting one and, in a sense, created the fertile ground into which the sport rooted itself more easily.

Sorry for the poncy way I've expressed that, but I'm sure you'll get my drift.

It's true but social colonisation can be reversed. Caribbean cricket is much weaker than before because of American basketball influencing young Jamaicans, Barbadians etc.

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